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Author Topic: Bright colors on black give me a headache - white-based color scheme?  (Read 2579 times)

roqi

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Bright colors on black give me a headache - white-based color scheme?
« on: April 01, 2017, 12:29:16 pm »
I've always found it hard on the eyes to read "night mode" color scheme websites, and I've found that nowadays it actually gives me headaches.  :'( Playing DF (or other ASCII games...) is nigh impossible! And yeah, while certain tilesets make the game screen itself lower-contrast, all the text on black is plenty enough to hurt - the game involves a lot of reading. So consider:

A color scheme that replaced all the black with off-white WHILE maintaining legibility?

I've never seen it done before, and some testing on my own turned up nothing remotely decent. So I come here in hopes somebody more experienced with color schemes may have some input.

Honestly, I think being white-based may even make the game more friendly-looking to newbies.
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raeborga

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Re: Bright colors on black give me a headache - white-based color scheme?
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2017, 04:27:12 am »
A. More white is probably worse for headaches.
B. Legibility is debatable, but I find it harder to read dark on light.
C. The game was made with light on dark in mind, so it's gonna look inverted.
D. I disagree.

Having said that...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

USE WITH CAUTION!

~EDIT~
Maybe a brighter background color with a regular color scheme would work better?
Like a blue ~25% brightness, for example...
I should mention that color scheme above is based on Taffer's, with all color values halved and black/white inverted.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2017, 04:36:17 am by raeborga »
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roqi

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Re: Bright colors on black give me a headache - white-based color scheme?
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2017, 01:07:50 am »
Quote from: raeborga on April 02, 2017, 04:27:12 am
A. More white is probably worse for headaches.
B. Legibility is debatable, but I find it harder to read dark on light.
C. The game was made with light on dark in mind, so it's gonna look inverted.
D. I disagree.

Having said that...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

USE WITH CAUTION!

~EDIT~
Maybe a brighter background color with a regular color scheme would work better?
Like a blue ~25% brightness, for example...
I should mention that color scheme above is based on Taffer's, with all color values halved and black/white inverted.

A. Depends on your brain/eyes, really. It is bright on black that triggers mine.
B. YMMV...
C. I know, and it does, which is unfortunate. Still trying to make it work.
D. Maybe you're right!

And, here's a screenshot of your scheme (with Wanderlust tileset):
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Ain't very legible, sadly: the colors all blend together, looking grey. To compare, here's what I've been playing with, also Taffer-based:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It's not... perfect, but it's playable and doesn't give me a headache.
I've tried basing it all in blue (riffing off Brogue's color palette, if you're familiar with that game), but my attempts were nothing to write home about. It could look good though I think.
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raeborga

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Re: Bright colors on black give me a headache - white-based color scheme?
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2017, 03:03:22 am »
Yeah, the color scheme I did looks terrible.
Have you tried colors other than white for the background?
I think the issue is that the white is drowning out color subtlety...
   Like a...
      A black hole...
         A white... black hole?
              A whack hole?

[ERROR]
[REBOOT]

Edit: Have you tried inverting the tileset itself (white<->transparent)?
It's gonna bork things that use transparency but maybe it would look better?
« Last Edit: April 04, 2017, 03:11:54 am by raeborga »
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Nyxalinth

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Re: Bright colors on black give me a headache - white-based color scheme?
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2017, 04:06:01 pm »
Quote from: roqi on April 04, 2017, 01:07:50 am
Quote from: raeborga on April 02, 2017, 04:27:12 am
A. More white is probably worse for headaches.
B. Legibility is debatable, but I find it harder to read dark on light.
C. The game was made with light on dark in mind, so it's gonna look inverted.
D. I disagree.

Having said that...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

USE WITH CAUTION!

~EDIT~
Maybe a brighter background color with a regular color scheme would work better?
Like a blue ~25% brightness, for example...
I should mention that color scheme above is based on Taffer's, with all color values halved and black/white inverted.

A. Depends on your brain/eyes, really. It is bright on black that triggers mine.
B. YMMV...
C. I know, and it does, which is unfortunate. Still trying to make it work.
D. Maybe you're right!

And, here's a screenshot of your scheme (with Wanderlust tileset):
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Ain't very legible, sadly: the colors all blend together, looking grey. To compare, here's what I've been playing with, also Taffer-based:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It's not... perfect, but it's playable and doesn't give me a headache.
I've tried basing it all in blue (riffing off Brogue's color palette, if you're familiar with that game), but my attempts were nothing to write home about. It could look good though I think.

the first makes me think of early Mac graphics, circa 1980s.
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Nyxalinth likes the color blue, gaming, writing, art, cats for their aloofness,  Transformers for their sentience and ability to transform, and the Constructicons for their hard work and building skills. Whenever possible, she prefers to consume bacon cheeseburgers and pinot noir. She absolutely detests stupid people.

raeborga

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Re: Bright colors on black give me a headache - white-based color scheme?
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2017, 05:34:57 pm »
Quote from: Nyxalinth on April 04, 2017, 04:06:01 pm
the first makes me think of early Mac graphics, circa 1980s.

My thoughts exactly.
What do you think made the Mac's graphics work?
Accessibility>Aesthetic, dithering?
Maybe it had more to do with the fact that games were designed with dark on light in mind.

Can we learn anything from the evolution of the Atari ST's TOS?

@OP
Maybe you should post your color scheme on the Tilesets and Graphics board to get some discussion going.
I'd hate to think that people are destroying their eyes playing DF...
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exdeath

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Re: Bright colors on black give me a headache - white-based color scheme?
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2017, 12:40:04 pm »
You could try this color scheme and see if it works for you:

BUT FIRST:
If you think about the official color scheme, it has those 3 rules:
1-A color can be made of the values, 0 and/or 128.
2-A color can be made of the values 0 and/or 255.
3-A color can be made of the value 192 (the average of the values that arent present at both rule 1 and 2).


You can change the 3 rules for that ones:

1-A color can be made of the values, 0 and/or 255.
2-A color can be made of the values 128 and/or 255.
3-A color can be made of the value 64 (the average of the values that aren't present at both rule 1 and 2).

The result:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


EDIT:
Since you want not just a brither scheme, but a "white background scheme", you can test this and see if it works. It basically get the previous idea and invert the dark and light versions of the color (white is black, black is white, light blue is dark blue, dark blue is light blue.....).


Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: June 13, 2017, 07:49:52 am by exdeath »
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Quietust

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Re: Bright colors on black give me a headache - white-based color scheme?
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2017, 06:53:47 pm »
Quote from: exdeath on June 05, 2017, 12:40:04 pm
You could try this color scheme and see if it works for you:

BUT FIRST:
If you think about the official color scheme, it has those 3 rules:
1-A color can be made of the values, 0 and/or 128.
2-A color can be made of the values 0 and/or 255.
3-A color can be made of the value 192 (the average of the values that arent present at both rule 1 and 2).


You can change the 3 rules for that ones:

1-A color can be made of the values, 0 and/or 255.
2-A color can be made of the values 128 and/or 255.
3-A color can be made of the value 64 (the average of the values that aren't present at both rule 1 and 2).
A nice idea, except it still uses a dark background, which completely ignores the OP's request.

Also, this discussion was finished 2 months ago - what was the point of resurrecting it?
« Last Edit: June 05, 2017, 06:56:37 pm by Quietust »
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IT 000

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Re: Bright colors on black give me a headache - white-based color scheme?
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2017, 09:50:04 am »
A loooong time ago there was a tileset released called Jolly Bastion. They use a pastel-esque sort of style that might help.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=104261.0
It's made for 34.10 but it's a tileset so I suspect it will work just fine.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Bright colors on black give me a headache - white-based color scheme?
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2017, 04:35:06 pm »
Quote from: IT 000 on June 06, 2017, 09:50:04 am
A loooong time ago there was a tileset released called Jolly Bastion. They use a pastel-esque sort of style that might help.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=104261.0
It's made for 34.10 but it's a tileset so I suspect it will work just fine.
There's an awful lot of white text on a black background in that tileset...
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