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Author Topic: Food too easy?  (Read 2785 times)

Greiger

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Re: Food too easy?
« Reply #30 on: January 13, 2008, 10:41:00 pm »

If yer willing to mod adding the [CARNIVORE] tag to dwarves will make it a little harder to get food, at least until yer used to it.
(EDIT: I haven't tried so donno if it works, but cooking plants to make meals I would consider cheating with this tag.)

After a year or two you can get more than enough food from fishing, hunting and trading but it's somewhat challenging for the first year.

[ January 13, 2008: Message edited by: Greiger ]

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Fedor

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Re: Food too easy?
« Reply #31 on: January 13, 2008, 11:13:00 pm »

I agree that food from farming is too easy.  But, especially for newbies, it's also too hard (or at least has too many non-intuitive pitfalls).

My proposals are to:

1) Give removing food from the kitchen highest priority and don't let a kitchen become cluttered except in extreme cases.  Basically, if any dwarf is on food-hauling in your fort at all, you should never have food rot in the kitchen.

2) Make growing skill slightly less important in determining crop yield; a max of 4 crops from an unfertilized square is reasonable.  Retain the current max limit from a fertilized square (so fertilization becomes more interesting).

3) Have all processing create 3 instead of 5 units from each input.  One plump helmet gets you 3 dwarven wine; one cave wheat gets you 3 flour; one quarry bush gets you 3 leaves.

4a) possibly restore the 2D version's requirement that an underground field be irrigated before planting, but not without giving dwarves a way to melt water and also providing more sources of underground water, even under non-mountain areas (and letting some hint of them show up on the location map).  Find a way to make 1/7 spots of water disappear rapidly when a pool is deliberately drained.

4b) Alternatively, let dwarves manually wet, churn up, and fertilize a floor, turning it into permanent soil that dries out every winter; the wetting will need to be done by bucket from a water source at least every year.  Setting up the field should require a great deal of labor, but should be able to be done almost anywhere.  Re-wetting or wetting a soil layer should take little effort.   Have the dwarves request buckets if they aren't available.

5) Forbid the cooking of booze and seeds, unless the item type is especially marked in the raws.

6) Give serious consideration to restoring the 2D version's prohibition on winter crops.  That perilous ~110-day stretch between the last fall and the first spring harvest made food management a lot more interesting, established a compelling natural cycle and thus a genuine medieval feel to the game, and gave a tremendous impetus to story-telling.

7) Let immigrants be delayed until there's at least some food available (allow food crises and shortages, but don't dump 20 dwarves into a place without even food for the original seven).  The combination of large early spring migrations and fallow winter was a tad harsh in the 2D version.

8a) Include a step-by-step plump helmet "how-to" in the manual, or

8b) Use the wiki as a substitute for a tutorial.  If a game is started and both "NEWBIE:YES" is on in the init and no previous game was played, bring up a message pointing players to the wiki, preferably to the page on food, which is (and will likely remain) here.

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gurra_geban

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Re: Food too easy?
« Reply #32 on: January 13, 2008, 11:41:00 pm »

Dwarves should eat more food, but they should also be able to carry food and drink with them if you gave them a bag of sorts. Then it would be great if the food the dwarf got to eat affected his mood, and that different dwarves liked different foodstuffs and drinks.
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Ralje

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Re: Food too easy?
« Reply #33 on: January 14, 2008, 12:24:00 am »

Suggestion: Ration food? Say your fort is just starting out, but you have bad crops/farmers, and the dwarfy population is too high to support. Half rationing could reduce the # of meals a dwarf could eat per year(or make them work just a little longer while hungry) at the cost of bad thoughts. For surplus food, order double-rations and make dwarfs eat even before they get hungry.
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Align

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Re: Food too easy?
« Reply #34 on: January 14, 2008, 02:02:00 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by irmo:
<STRONG>(Without the ability to cook booze, prepared meals don't have much purpose. [...]</STRONG>
Apart from giving dwarves happy thoughts if they're well-made and saving space by combining Quarry bush leaves[5], Quarry bush leaves[10], Quarry bush leaves[10], and Elephant Tallow[16] into a single 41-piece meal?
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Fenrir

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Re: Food too easy?
« Reply #35 on: January 14, 2008, 02:06:00 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Angbad:
<STRONG>Food isn't so easy to get on a glacier, unless you're willing to practice livestock husbandry.</STRONG>

If you rely on livestock, booze will be a serious concern.
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Nesoo

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Re: Food too easy?
« Reply #36 on: January 14, 2008, 09:09:00 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by gurra_geban:
<STRONG>Dwarves should eat more food, but they should also be able to carry food and drink with them if you gave them a bag of sorts. Then it would be great if the food the dwarf got to eat affected his mood, and that different dwarves liked different foodstuffs and drinks.</STRONG>

The first half is partially supported; soldiers can be set to carry food in a backpack. The second part, about dwarves having different food and drink preferences, is already in.

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Forumsdwarf

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Re: Food too easy?
« Reply #37 on: January 15, 2008, 12:58:00 am »

Miners should equip backpacks and waterskins and carry supplies automatically.

I guess this Christmas wish belongs on the suggestions board.

[ January 15, 2008: Message edited by: Forumsdwarf ]

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axus

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Re: Food too easy?
« Reply #38 on: January 15, 2008, 12:47:00 pm »

I think maybe plants should need to be spread out more.  Farming realistically takes a lot of land, much more than the dwarves are using.  "Growing room" could be something moddable for each plant, specifying the edge of the square needed to grow it.

The cooked weight of food should matter also.  First, the harvest of wild strawberries, dwarven flour, plump helmets, quarry bush leaves is going to to vary.  After they've been cooked, the weight is gonna be lower.  Meals could require a total cooked weight of food.  This would help the alcohol problem... cooked alchohol is going to weigh almost nothing.  Of course different kinds of cooking are going to take away more or less moisture, but it would be a good start.  Meat and flour would keep most of their weight  :)  By requiring more food in meals, farms will need to grow more.  

I suppose instead of weight, food could have a score for nutrition and one for taste.  A meal would need a certain total for nutrition, and the taste would affect how dwarf felt about it.  The concept of weight and nutrition would serve the same purpose.

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0x517A5D

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Re: Food too easy?
« Reply #39 on: January 15, 2008, 08:47:00 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Fenrir:
<STRONG>If you rely on livestock, booze will be a serious concern.</STRONG>

Kefir?  First, we'll need milking to be more than a once-a-year event.

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