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[Kogan Loloklam]

In the mail my sister just got a letter from our local state debt collector.

In it, it states she owes over a thousand dollars for attending Pikes Peak Community College.
She was current with her account when she left in fall of 2002. Yep. OVER EIGHT YEARS AGO.

They intend to garnish her tax return this year as a result. She tasked me to write up an official reply to them. Here's what I got.

Spoiler: Old One (click to show/hide)

I last attended Pikes Peak community College in the Fall Semester of 2002. I have not received any communication from Pikes Peak Community college in the years since, even though my current address was my address of record then, and I have not moved since. I further dispute that there is any debt owed at all, as to the best of my recollection I was paid in full when I ceased attending the school. They have made a claim that I have made a payment as justification for their action. At no time has this occurred, as I believe to be current with all outstanding balance with them as of 2002. I do not know why they are alleging this debt when they have made no previous attempt to communicate with me or provide any creditable evidence of this debt. I believe that they should be required do demonstrate that the debt is owed. Furthermore, I believe given the time it has taken for them to take action on this debt, it demonstrates poor faith in their intent to collect the debt and that it should be dismissed entirely.

I have not received any communication from Pikes Peak Community college since the date of my last attendance, and my current address was my address of record at the time of my last attendance. There was no outstanding balance after the date of my last attendance. Pikes Peak Community College is alleging that a payment was made on their alleged debt. No such payment was made, because no such debt exists. I request a copy of their alleged debt, plus a record of any and all attempts you have made to investigate their claims prior to attempting to take action against me.
I expect a response within 30 days of receipt of this letter.
Thank you.

We figure we'll be sending it out in the end of the week.

I personally got one of these too, and I -thought- I paid it off, but I didn't remember for sure and mine was delivered in 2009 for 2006. I just let it go. I'm starting to regret it now. I think that they might have some error in their system that has resulted in them overcharging an extra semester or something.

So anyway, any improvements anyone can think of to this letter? Making it more professional and stuff? I also wonder, if it's owed to a college but wasn't from an official student loan, doesn't it also pass the statute of limitations even though it doesn't apply to student loans? They allege she made a payment she never made, so it's all wonky and it wouldn't apply, but it might be a further argument I should include.

[LordBucket]

any improvements anyone can think of to this letter?

1) Don't include any information that is unnecessary. This is not a casual correspondence. You do not need to inform them of your attendance dates, or whether you've exchanged previous communication with them.

2) Don't phrase anything as your opinion. Phrase it as fact. You don't "dispute" that there is a debt. There is no debt. Don't state that you "don't know why" they're claiming a debt exists. That implies that there might be a reason. Don't state that you "believe" the debt to be current. State either that there is no debt, or if you acknowledge that there was once a debt, state that the debt in question was payed in full as of date.

3) Include a formal challenge and impose a fulfillment requirement on it. For example:

They allege she made a payment she never made

Demand that they deliver evidence of such, and include a statement at the end of your notice that if they are unable to do so within thirty days of receipt of your letter, you will consider this matter closed.

4) Get it notarized, and deliver it via certified mail. Keep a copy.

doesn't it also pass the statute of limitations even though it doesn't apply to student loans?

These things vary by state. Don't even bring it up. Your questioning of the statue of limitations would imply that you acknowledge that there was a legitimate debt that was unpaid.

I -thought- I paid it off, but I didn't remember for sure and mine was
delivered in 2009 for 2006. I just let it go. I'm starting to regret it now.

You don't sound very certain. The above assumes you intend to fight this, but if you're just fishing for more information, if you think that might actually be a legitimate debt, you could always look through bank records, and so forth. Asking for information from people who intend to collect money from you will rarely be to your benefit.

[Kogan Loloklam]

I -thought- I paid it off, but I didn't remember for sure and mine was
delivered in 2009 for 2006. I just let it go. I'm starting to regret it now.

You don't sound very certain. The above assumes you intend to fight this, but if you're just fishing for more information, if you think that might actually be a legitimate debt, you could always look through bank records, and so forth. Asking for information from people who intend to collect money from you will rarely be to your benefit.

Two different debts. I got a letter identical to the one my sister got. I wasn't confident on the one I got two years ago, so I let it go. My sister's, we are absolutely certain she paid off her schooling.
Also, she can't "consider the matter closed". Pikes Peak Community College is using Colorado's Central Collection Services to get the money they aren't owed through a Tax Offset.

Thanks for the advice. I have revised it as such. Any additional comments?

[LordBucket]

Colorado

Note that I only have experience dealing with these things in california. Rules may vary. I advise due diligence. I am not an attorney.

I have not received any communication from Pikes Peak Community
college since the date of my last attendance,

Irrelevant. If a debt existed with a delayed payment arrangement, you wouldn't necessarily receive anything until payment was due. The fact of your not having received communication in that time does not invalidate evidence of debt, if such exists.

There was no outstanding balance after the date of my last attendance.

Also irrelevant. They're asserting that there is a balance now, and your above statement does not deny that.

I expect a response within 30 days of receipt of this letter.

It doesn't matter what you "expect." The point here is to give formal notice that you dispute the validity of the debt:

Fair Debt Collection Practices Act
"unless the consumer, within thirty days after receipt of the notice, disputes the validity of the debt, or any portion thereof, the debt will be assumed to be valid by the debt collector; "

I request a copy of their alleged debt

You're not requesting anything. Inform them that you dispute the validity of their claim, and command them to provide the evidence they claim exists.

There may well be a debt. And you might even have the evidence of it in hand. Nevertheless, if they can't provide evidence of debt, it's extremely unlikely that any court would order you to pay.

Pikes Peak Community College is alleging that a payment was made on their
alleged debt. No such payment was made, because no such debt exists.

It would be helpful to see the letter you're referring to, but from your phrasing I infer that they are attempting to assert the fact of a payment as evidence of debt. You claim that no such payment was made. If they cannot provide a record of the payment they're using as evidence of debt, they have no evidence of debt.

she can't "consider the matter closed"

That language is not for her or the debt collector. It is for a court, should the dispute come to that. You are required to respond to the claim within 30 days, or there are legal consequences. You "imply agreement" with the notice if you fail to dispute it within that time. But that can work both ways. They've issued you a challenge, which you are expected to respond to. So respond to it and give them a challenge in turn. Demand validation of their claim, and give them notice that they have 30 days to provide it. If a court sees that you met a 30 day requirement, but they did not...that makes you look good and them bad.

Honestly, I've never made it that far. I've dealt with people who mixed up paperwork, people who randomly sent me letters claiming I owed them money despite sometimes having never even heard of them, etc. And 100% of the time I failed to respond, or tried to be cooperative with them, they pursued the issue. And 100% of the time I responded with a formal, notarized letter in legal language, they dropped it without response.

I can't say that will work for you. But it has worked for me.

Pikes Peak Community College is using Colorado's Central Collection Services

Right. A debt collector is not the entity to whom a debt is owed. They're a middle man, and they must follow certain protocol. If you formally dispute the debt and demand validation of it, they will simply go to the debt claimant and ask for validation to send to you. If that claimant is unable or unwilling to provide it, there's nothing left for the debt collector to do.

From the Federal Trade Commission:

"If the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period described in subsection (a) that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, or that the consumer requests the name and address of the original creditor, the debt collector shall cease collection of the debt, or any disputed portion thereof, until the debt collector obtains verification of the debt or any copy of a judgment, or the name and address of the original creditor, and a copy of such verification or judgment, or name and address of the original creditor, is mailed to the consumer by the debt collector."

You have rights. Use them.

Any additional comments?

Rather than revising line by line, or even following my advice at all, have you considered using a standard response letter? Like this, or this, or this?

[Kogan Loloklam]

Here's the letter, retyped to remove any information I feel that should probably not be made public:

Spoiler: Their letter (click to show/hide)

(State of Colorado, Division of Finance and Procurement Letterhead)
(My Address Block)-------------------------(Billing date, Account Number, Client Name, Client Reference Number)

This communication is from a Debt Collector
*******State tax offset notice *******
Tax Offset Phone Numbers: 303-866-4594 or 1-800-331-9865

Colorado Revised Statues 24-30-202.4 and 39-21-108(3)(a)(i) allow debts to the State to be deducted or offset from a taxpayer's Colorado State income tax refund.

Notice: The Colorado Department of Revenue intends to offset your tax refund against this debt.

Hearing: You may dispute the tax offset for this debt. To request a hearing you must make your request in writing and supply the reason for the hearing within thirty (30) days of the postmark on the envelope. Mail your request to Central Collections, 633 17th Street, Suite 1540, Denver CO 80202.

If your account has been placed with a private collection agency or is in litigation, please contact the appropriate office for questions.

(Payment Stub)

The Payment stub has an Assigned Amount, an Interest Amount, A payment Section, and a Balance Due. There is an amount in Payment, and Assigned Amount Subtracted by the Payment results in the Balance Due section. This is what I am reading as they claim she made a payment.

I absolutely love the canned response there. I'm not quite sure it's a perfect match since it's a state agency, but I think the very fact it is so visibly a "canned message" just makes it better in my view I am thinking the one from http://www.creditinfocenter.com/ verbatim would be perfect.

[LordBucket]

Spoiler: Their letter

That doesn't look quite like anything I've seen. I don't want to give you bad advice. I've only dealt with commercial debt collection agencies in california. Yours is not. The statues I quoted above are federal, so in theory they should supercede anything at the state level, but the phrasing of that notice implies that the debt they allege is held by the state itself, not the college. That casts a different light on the notion of them needing to contact the creditor for evidence of debt. The state is the creditor.

I absolutely love the canned response there. I'm not quite sure
it's a perfect match since it's a state agency

Well, yes. As it appears to be the state itself that's the creditor, there is probably no agency at work here. Consequently, some of the things in that letter don't apply. It's silly to ask a principal to provide proof of their authority to act as an agent for himself. But then they acknowledge the possibility of the account being placed with a private agency. Which is either odd, or it's a form letter.

You may dispute the tax offset for this debt. To request a hearing
you must make your request in writing and supply the reason

Again, not an attorney, but as I understand it, Federal law probably supercedes protocol preferred by the state. Why should you want them to conduct a hearing? Kind of looks like an attempt to gain your consent for them to have jurisdiction by having you "request" that they conduct a hearing for you.

It's entirely possible that the standard "show me evidence that debt exists" line might work for you. But again, your situation is somewhat different than I've ever personally dealt with. If you're feeling brave, you might do exactly as proposed above: demand verification of debt as per FTC codes linked above. But ask yourself this question honestly: when you read what I said above about agency and principals did you even understand what was being said? If you didn't, how comfortable are you engaging in legal action based on subjects you might not fully understand on the counsel of a stranger who is not an attorney and has no experience with debt collection in your state?

I once again advise due diligence.

[Kogan Loloklam]

I did understand.
We don't have money to pursue lawyers currently, but we know that there is no debt. Any kind of debt that exists would be due to someone else's error. I believe Pikes Peak Community College's, particularly since when I went to school I paid with my GI Bill, and therefore there was no reason I wouldn't have paid it entirely in full, and yet I had a letter similar to this in 2009. I couldn't remember for sure, so I let it go then. Mostly because there was bad blood between myself and my bank at the time, and I didn't want to pull up the records for that time period.