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Author Topic: Politibastard - Game Over! Conservative Win the Battle! (Lose the War) Toen win!  (Read 102896 times)

NativeForeigner

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Please explain how they are scum. If you are so keen on clinging to your claimed issue, give me proof that you are in the right and they in the wrong.
Let's begin with the fact that two town rolecops in a 10-person game is... how would you call it... oh yes, fucking imbalanced. It's much more likely that one of them is lying, even more likely than that is that they're both lying. Also, there's Book's scummy behavior from D1, which I've mentioned back then.

See that's slightly better. I thought the same thing, but this is a bastard game. I'm almost sure McNoble is telling the truth about his inspect because I'm pretty sure he's a Conservative, I'm less sure about Bookthras, however. But mentioning it isn't enough, why aren't you trying harder if you think Book's scum?

vote Dariush for lying and not even really trying.
[citation needed]

You're likely lying about how you shifted issues.
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Yeah, you're a dick, NativeForeigner.
Quit being such a dick, you dick.
Maybe if you weren't such a dick you wouldn't be such a dick.

Urist McUselessNoble

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Spoiler: Claimed Issue Shifts: (click to show/hide)

Religion and Social are one point lefter of where the claims state they should be.
[spoiler extended to save space]

Religion is one, Social is two. But the fact that the issues are three points off from where they should be in the aggregate is actually good for your hypothesis of two scum of which one is Dariush.

I'm going to make a few assumptions:

1. Dariush is a lying scumbag and shifted Social left.
Plausible.

2. Nobody who actually shifted Economic (or any issue) right would have lied about doing so.
Plausible.

3. From #2, we would conclude that since McNoble is the only person who claimed to have shifted Econ (and it's in the right place), he is most likely a true Conservative.
It's true that if I lied, then at least one other person must have shifted Econ to Con and lied about it. I suppose it's possible that there's an unclaimed double-shifter third party or somesuch, but that seems a stretch.

Whether you can conclude from that that I'm conservative... well, I believe (on faith, admittedly) that we have at least one third party in the game. So not being Dariush's scumbuddy does not imply being Town.

Following these basic assumptions, Religion and Social are still one point left of where they should be.  If someone who claimed to have shifted Religion right actually shifted Social left, that would account for the discrepancy.
This presumes that the scumteam would be willing to risk overkilling (granted, a minute risk), or did not coordinate Issue shifts (more plausible).

Alternatively, one of the people who claimed to shift Religion or Social right didn't shift anything and either Mii or Native shifted the other left.  Third option is that both Mii and Native shifted the two left.
Technically, Mii or Native could be independent third parties who shifted Social left - Social is at its leftmost peg, which means that there could be any amount of overkill hidden there.

My conclusion, therefore, is that either Tiruin or Bookthras is scum...
Despite the reservations above, this remains the most plausible scenario.

and my gut says Tiruin.  Book, at least, is able to doublevote Dariush like he said he could.
I concur. If Bookie is Dariush's scumbuddy, he would not just have been putting Dariush on a bus, he'd have been driving the thing. And Tiruin's helpless flailing and insane troll logic over the past 15 or so posts does not fit my read of his town meta. It reads like panicking scum to me.

Would today be a good time to use our extension?  I think it might be.
No. Oppose the use of our extension. We have a confirmed liar to lynch, right now he doesn't have audience protection, and the longer we wait, the more likely the audience will be to screw things up by granting immunity to the obvscum for shit and giggles.

Please explain how they are scum. If you are so keen on clinging to your claimed issue, give me proof that you are in the right and they in the wrong.
Let's begin with the fact that two town rolecops in a 10-person game is... how would you call it... oh yes, fucking imbalanced.
Except that my investigation is one-shot and neither reveals power roles.

It's much more likely that one of them is lying, even more likely than that is that they're both lying. Also, there's Book's scummy behavior from D1, which I've mentioned back then.
Wanna find that post for us and link to it? It shouldn't be too hard for you, seeing as how you don't have all that many in this thread.
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"Among the many models of the good society no one has urged the squirrel wheel" - J.K. Galbraith, The Affluent Society

Toaster

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Fine by me on the extension.  We've got one scum, so let's find another.

Anyway, Tiruin:

Urist McUselessNoble

Do you have proof that it is so? No. It reads "Arch-Conservative". Good work Senator, appealing by pop internet culture. I don't read that.

McNoble, I was absent for a grand total of one day with one day of bad activity if my calculations are correct. Why are you so overplaying my supposed lurking? Don't want to actually scumhunt?
But this day lasts for another two, not so? So if you had kept lurking throughout this day, you would have been lurking for half a week.

You didn't, but then that didn't help you much when in fact you turned out to be a liar.
Didn't you see his past posts? Not that lurky due to his explanation on the weekend. But he hasn't answered my question, now that I see it.

OMGUS and light chainsaw of Dariush.

Tiruin:
Toaster: Did you actually claim as a resurrector (or whatever the formal Mafia name is for that) just to avoid discrepancy in decision? Or are you saving it up until you are sure that the lynched is absolutely town?

Not quite sure what you mean by the first question.  I didn't actually plan on being able to post anything today, as I expected to use my ability on anyone that flipped town.  For now, I'm saving it for people I am absolutely sure on.  Given that we can no longer multilynch, it's less useful for that plan.
I question this. So now that we all know that roles don't flip (am I using that term right?), then how can you be truly sure on the lynch if he or she was town? I'm really at odds here, because it would take a lot of reasoning on a mislynched townie. To me, this sounds like a hidden 'safe' card, though.

I don't know what you're accusing me of here (or even if it's an accusation at all!)  I'd have to have an extremely strong feeling that someone was both town and more useful alive than I was to res them.  If I do res someone, though, know that I am fully endorsing anything they say or do. 




I do want to get one thing straight.

Book and McNoble:  Are your inspects one shot?  Because from what I'm reading, you haven't said the same thing, despite them being practically the same ability.
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HMR stands for Hazardous Materials Requisition, not Horrible Massive Ruination, though I can understand how one could get confused.
God help us if we have to agree on pizza toppings at some point. There will be no survivors.

Urist McUselessNoble

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Mine is. Unless I become someone's running mate, in which case it becomes a permanent night ability.

But since the mechanics for that haven't even been introduced yet, it seems unlikely that I'd get more than one more night out of it.
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"Among the many models of the good society no one has urged the squirrel wheel" - J.K. Galbraith, The Affluent Society

Dariush

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Except that my investigation is one-shot and neither reveals power roles.
SUDDENLY more details are revealed. Also, how do you know that Book's doesn't reveal power roles?

I can prove I investigated him, by using the double-vote thing I mention above, as it only works on those whose stance I directly know. See: Vote Mii. Vote Mii. Next vote count, I'll have voted you only once, but Dariush twice; therefore I did in fact inspect him. Unfortunately, it doesn't prove I'm actually telling the truth about my result, but that's up to you people to make your minds about, weigh it with the rest of the evidence, and so on.
Yes, of course. And we should believe you... why, exactly? Since this is a bastard game, even assuming only one vote on Mii passes, there's a crapton of things that could influence it - you could unvote her once via PM, you could only have a single doublevote, hell, you could only doublevote people whose nicknames start on 'D'. Not cool, scum, not cool at all.

See that's slightly better. I thought the same thing, but this is a bastard game. I'm almost sure McNoble is telling the truth about his inspect because I'm pretty sure he's a Conservative, I'm less sure about Bookthras, however. But mentioning it isn't enough, why aren't you trying harder if you think Book's scum?
Try harder to do what? Everyone is blind and stupid. The lynch-happiness prevails.
You're likely lying about how you shifted issues.
Except the only one who inspected the effects of issues and possibilities of lies happened to be Toaster, who is most probably scum himself and didn't examine neither the possibility of himself lying about the shift (well, that one is kinda obvious, but still) nor the bastard-factors or simply issue-shift-affecting roles.

Urist McUselessNoble

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Except that my investigation is one-shot and neither reveals power roles.
SUDDENLY more details are revealed.
Yawn. You're not even trying:
And on that note, I want to see full issueclaims from everyone. Right now. Because I also had a one-shot investigative role related to issues (not telling who I investigated for what until I see some claims, though). Which makes me think we all got one.

Also, how do you know that Book's doesn't reveal power roles?
Technically, I don't. But he hasn't claimed that it does, and revealing both Issues and power roles and allowing a double vote on selective targets is, what was that charming term you used... oh yes, "fucking imbalanced."

Except the only one who inspected the effects of issues and possibilities of lies happened to be Toaster, who is most probably scum
Wanna make that case? Y'know with actual arguments.

Oh, and the logic is mostly sound. So even if he's scum, well, the logic is still sound. That's the awesome thing about formal logic.

Oh, and you're postulating three scum in a ten-person game. Two posts after you were arguing that two issuecops would be unbalanced. Consistency is sitting over in that corner crying.

himself and didn't examine neither the possibility of himself lying about the shift (well, that one is kinda obvious, but still)
Implausible due to the number of pegs the issues are off by. Toaster had two shifts due to being pack leader, which means that him lying would shift the issues by an aggregate of four pegs.
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"Among the many models of the good society no one has urged the squirrel wheel" - J.K. Galbraith, The Affluent Society

Toaster

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Dariush, are you an RL politician or something?  The sheer amount of deflection you're putting out is staggering.  All you're doing is postulating "what ifs" and completely ignoring things like "logic" and "proof."
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HMR stands for Hazardous Materials Requisition, not Horrible Massive Ruination, though I can understand how one could get confused.
God help us if we have to agree on pizza toppings at some point. There will be no survivors.

GlyphGryph

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On request, I'm just confirming that I did forget to give NativeForeigner his issues. I'm NOT confirming whether the issues he provided were correct, simply that I'm incredibly sloppy in my dealing out of stuff and whatnot.
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Bookthras

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McNoble:
Based on this, I've got some hypotheses:
First that the ones who get inspects are the ones who are Arch-Conservative on the issue being inspected. If so, either Tiruin has the Social Inspect, or we lynched out that inspect D1. I find the latter more plausible.
I find this plausible, and your double-vote thing makes it moreso. I concur that Pranz probably had the Social inspect, which means Tiruin is the odd-one out, and probable 3rd party.

On the other hand, an inconsistency: my inspection ability is not one-shot. It specifically says I can use it every night. My kill is one-shot.

Second that some or all of the roles are built over actual candidates.
I'm guessing that Bookthras is Mullah Ricky, based on the fact that Santorum is best known for being a religious extremist and weak on civil liberties, but appeals to blue-collar voters with a side order of economic populism.
I feared as much, from the flavour. I try not to get any on me. But no names are mentioned.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that NativeForeigner is Stephen Colbert, based on nothing more than the fact that he's a media personality who had no opinion on the issues before he made up his fakeclaim.
That'd be actually really funny. Though the uncoordinated SuperPAC and the arch-arch-conservative thing make me think that maybe it's Tiruin who is the Colbert in our midst. Not that it's really important, though, but we all know Colbert is actually a liberal in disguise. He's a doctor in fine arts, for cryin' out loud.

De gustibus non est disputandum
Bachmann is a marginally competent version of Palin.
a) Quit talkin' in Mexican already! and b) I think the word you were looking for is "loonier", not "competent". Or you're using a different dictionary than I.


Tiruin:
Bookthras: So you're alright with the other liberal out there? Going by the name of McNoble?
As noted by the moderator, issues and alignment are not strictly correlated, so his being Social Liberal does not make him an actual liberal infiltrator. If we get any evidence that he's an actual liberal, then yes, he should hang, but not exclusively based on his social views (not that we should share them or excuse them, though).

Dariush:
Actually I am Social Super-Conservative, Economic Super-Conservative, Religious Conservative. I attempted to shift Social, but was roleblocked.
Well, it so happens that I can double-vote anyone who I have inspected who is far enough away from me on religious issues. Let's try to see if you are one of them, shall we?
Dariush, Dariush. Moderator: updated vote count, please.
You question me about my double-vote power while you kept one in secret? Huh? Also, you are trying that out on Mii who claims Conservative?
I questioned you about it precisely because I wanted to understand whether it worked like mine or not; it didn't, so I let it go. I didn't claim it D1 because it didn't work D1; I needed to inspect someone first (and that inspectee needs to be far enough away from me) for it to have an effect. I claimed it as soon as it made sense to claim it (when I used it).

I used it on Mii to document how it worked, and to prove I was telling the truth about it. One vote on her wouldn't get her lynched anyway, and had she panicked about it, it'd be an interesting reaction to note, but she didn't. I don't care whether she claims conservative (after all, so do Dariush and you), but I don't have a strong scum read on her at the moment. Unvote Mii.


Toaster
Audience members:  Please don't vote for Dariush, as he is dirty hippie liberal commie scum!  A vote for Dariush is a vote for anarcho-communism! Vote for anyone else; even Tiruin is better than Dariush!
It's no big deal. Even if the Goatfucker's union gets its way, they can only protect the obvscum for today, and the lynch goes to the next most voted, which is why we should vote Tiruin (the next scummiest, in my mind) in case that comes to happen. As it is now, however, Dariush is the most likely to hang.


Dariush:
Let's begin with the fact that two town rolecops in a 10-person game is... how would you call it... oh yes, fucking imbalanced.
It's not role cops. It's issue cops. I get to look at the stance on a single issue on two people per night. I can't see the rest of the issues, or your role name or powers. That's not a role cop, is it?

Also, there's Book's scummy behavior from D1, which I've mentioned back then.
[citation needed]

Also, how do you know that Book's doesn't reveal power roles?
I claimed what my ability did on my first D2 post.

I can prove I investigated him, by using the double-vote thing I mention above, as it only works on those whose stance I directly know. See: Vote Mii. Vote Mii. Next vote count, I'll have voted you only once, but Dariush twice; therefore I did in fact inspect him. Unfortunately, it doesn't prove I'm actually telling the truth about my result, but that's up to you people to make your minds about, weigh it with the rest of the evidence, and so on.
Yes, of course. And we should believe you... why, exactly? Since this is a bastard game, even assuming only one vote on Mii passes, there's a crapton of things that could influence it - you could unvote her once via PM, you could only have a single doublevote, hell, you could only doublevote people whose nicknames start on 'D'. Not cool, scum, not cool at all.
I explicitly said you should "weigh it with the rest of the evidence and so on." Whether you believe it or not is not up to me, all I can do is present my argument. But yeah, maybe I do have a double vote on those whose name starts with 'D'. Sounds very plausible indeed.



Regarding the extension, I think it's unnecessary. We've made a lot of progress, and seem to have reached a consensus. I won't oppose it, if people are sure they want it, but I'd rather things moved forward; there doesn't seem to be much more we can get done in D2. However, I do suggest people to vote Tiruin in case the goatfucker's union tries to do some last minute shenanigans.
Logged
No one ever listens to Zathras, no. Quite mad, they say.  |  That ain't a shepherd.

Zathras hefts the corpse-of-webadict puppet and works its mouth: "I declare world peace! Yay! All hail Zathras!"
Everyone is handsomely rewarded, and lives happily ever after.  Except for Bookthras, who dies of poison in the night.

Urist McUselessNoble

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On the other hand, an inconsistency: my inspection ability is not one-shot. It specifically says I can use it every night.
Hm... I have another role power that's a one-shot but becomes a full night action if I become somebody's VP candidate. So that may be the tradeoff involved: You got a permanent full and a permanent one-shot. I got two temporary one-shots.

But this chain of thought is starting to smell like a whole distillery, so I think I'll hold it here.

Second that some or all of the roles are built over actual candidates.
I'm guessing that Bookthras is Mullah Ricky, based on the fact that Santorum is best known for being a religious extremist and weak on civil liberties, but appeals to blue-collar voters with a side order of economic populism.
I feared as much, from the flavour. I try not to get any on me. But no names are mentioned.
Mine didn't give a name either, just two sobriquets. But the fact that there's only one glibertarian in the race made it pretty easy to spot.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that NativeForeigner is Stephen Colbert, based on nothing more than the fact that he's a media personality who had no opinion on the issues before he made up his fakeclaim.
That'd be actually really funny. Though the uncoordinated SuperPAC and the arch-arch-conservative thing make me think that maybe it's Tiruin who is the Colbert in our midst.
Yeah, it was a toss-up between the two, but (a) I didn't think that the scumteam would be built over real people at the time (though thinking about it, it's possible that Dariush is Obama and Tiruin is Colbert). Now that Word of God clarified Native's issue thing, it does seem more likely that Tiruin is Colbert.

But I don't think he's third-party. His, uh, spirited chainsawing and deflecting for Dariush lately makes me think he's Dariush's scumbuddy. Eh, doesn't matter, though. Most third parties need to hang anyway.

Bachmann is a marginally competent version of Palin.
I think the word you were looking for is "loonier", not "competent". Or you're using a different dictionary than I.
I must admit that I haven't been following Bachmann that closely, but she struck me as more competent than Palin based on the fact that she remained in the race longer. And, well, anybody less competent than Palin would need an instruction manual to figure out how to walk and breathe at the same time.

But of course "more competent" and "loonier" are not mutually exclusive.
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"Among the many models of the good society no one has urged the squirrel wheel" - J.K. Galbraith, The Affluent Society

GlyphGryph

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The day is now over. Please hold - it may take some time to process things and get flavour set up.

For those interested in changing night actions, which will be extended tonight to whenever I get home, Dariush is lynched with a whopping 8 votes, and Tiruin becomes the frontrunner.
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GlyphGryph

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Spoiler: Counts (click to show/hide)
As the debate drags on, things become clear. The various nominees turn their attacks against Dariush - attacking his flaws, exposing his weaknesses, at every turn. By the end of the debate, it turns into a relentless stream of slams and put downs. Dariush buckles under the pressure, and flees the stage, his campaign in ruins.

Meanwhile, Tiruin uses the opportunity to take a more positive note, and the audience responds - some have sympathies for the attacked Dariush, but when the debate ends it is Tiruin who holds a commanding lead in the polls.

As the lights fade and the audience heads home, the winners and losers in this contest are clear. But what remains to be seen is what, exactly, that means. Was Dariush really the liberal they claimed?  Can Tiruin turn his momentum into a win?

The race is nowhere near over yet.


Dariush has been lynched!
Tiruin has become the frontrunner!
« Last Edit: February 22, 2012, 11:14:10 pm by GlyphGryph »
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Urist McUselessNoble

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Bookthras unvoted Mii before the day ended. Also, time for a title change to the thread?
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"Among the many models of the good society no one has urged the squirrel wheel" - J.K. Galbraith, The Affluent Society

GlyphGryph

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Please hold while the next day is being written.
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GlyphGryph

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Re: Politibastard - Day 3: Time to Primary!
« Reply #359 on: February 22, 2012, 11:25:08 pm »

Between the debates and the primaries, something strange happened. Despite the thorough thorough beating he took in the debate and the subsequent plummet in popularity, Dariush has recently been climbing in the polls again. Against all odds, he's not out of this yet - he's used the debates to recast himself as a maverick, a Washington outsider standing against the entrenched elitist bigwigs of the party, and people are buying it. Not everyone - he's certainly not winning. But he's managed to turn his weakness into strength, and he's not out of the game yet. In fact, everyone from the debates is still kicking around - but today, things are going to get a bit more intense.

Yep, that's right! It is now PRIMARY DAY! One of the most important days in the nomination process, and there's still plenty of candidates milling about and jockeying for position. This could be there last chance to appeal to the public before votes are cast, so lets hope they make the best of it!


Dariush has rejoined the race!
Public Opinion:
Social: Conservative
Religious: Arch-Conservative
Economic: Super-Conservative

Vote count:
Tiruin(1) <- Public Scrutiny
Dariush(1) <- Tiruin

Today is The Primary!

The Frontrunner at the end of the day will be the player who is CLOSEST to matching the issues, as they stand. In the case of a tie, there is a complicated algorithm that I will use to determine the ultimate winner. Players receive one point for issues adjacent to their stance, 2 points for issues identical to their stance, and no points for issues further away.

In addition, players may PM me a day-issue-change today to sway the issues. This will be represented by the next vote count.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2012, 11:36:39 pm by GlyphGryph »
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