Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Footkerchief]

Enjoying the devlogs recently.  Succession and occupation sound awesome.

[WillowLuman]

Can invaders destroy buildings even if the defenders succeed in repelling them? Do the defenders repair buildings?

[Scoops Novel]

Will invasions wake up nearby... residents?

[tyrannus007]

There's already making of gristly trophies by invading armies. Not any rape or sexcrimes outside night trolls and that one story...

I wasn't thinking of rape when I asked the question but instead things like leaders being influenced by a beautiful villain. Also situations like the one in Beowulf.

Toady said that he wasn't morally opposed to the depiction of sex, though he was opposed to explicit depiction of rape and other sex crimes. However, he was wary of the media attention it would bring. The stuff you suggest is probably planned, but won't be implemented for quite a while.

[CaptainArchmage]

There's already making of gristly trophies by invading armies. Not any rape or sexcrimes outside night trolls and that one story...

I wasn't thinking of rape when I asked the question but instead things like leaders being influenced by a beautiful villain. Also situations like the one in Beowulf.

Toady said that he wasn't morally opposed to the depiction of sex, though he was opposed to explicit depiction of rape and other sex crimes. However, he was wary of the media attention it would bring. The stuff you suggest is probably planned, but won't be implemented for quite a while.

Many of the reports that come through announcements, combat, sparring, and hunting logs would earn the game an 18+ rating, if it were not ASCII. The latest set of updates I've put through to the Masterwork succession fortress are highly indicative - continuous rioting, disorderly conduct, vandalism, dehydration, major dysfunction of the legal system, blood-sucking mayors, dwarves forced to drink vomit, dwarves stripping off, going berserk in hospitals, slicing unicorns in half, sieges, rains of beer, massive junk stockpiles...

While I was uploading the files to the website, I actually tried to find a way to mark the ASCII screenshots as "18+ (Violence)", but couldn't find an option to do so.

Toady has said in some other thread on old projects of his that he doesn't want to release certain things that are very politically incorrect. We've already had the removal of certain "naughty words" (many of which are not even "naughty" but just cover politically taboo subjects) with the DF2012 release, although the dictionary was expanded considerably in other ways, so he does find it an issue even if many players don't. I do think the game will need to go someway there when the relationships system gets worked on, and this might even be the next release or so (after DF2013).

[GrizzlyAdamz]

Asking for general info,

Does anyone know how much interplay there will be between worldgen and play-modes, ie switching between the two?
Also, were there plans to have adventure mode take over historical figures, instead of poofing them into existence?
Also, what about specific goals or directives for more esoteric facets of world gen...see spoiler.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Will we ever get half elves?

Made me think, in world gen, if there were both elf and (whatever would find an elf attractive) civilizations in existence, but there had never been a horrible half-elf abomination which one could take control of, then one could select this race and advance world-gen a few dozen years in order to obtain a legitimate (hehe) historical half-elf. Figure it might be doable by marrying two members and forcing one to migrate to the other, (plus either an expanded race selection or a slightly more complex procedural race mixer abomination algorithm), but anyway the thought of playing the first of a kind made me curious.

-edit
@CaptainArchmage
Except for the beer, what's new?


-edit
Not for next release, just planned.

[CaptainArchmage]

Asking for general info,

Does anyone know how much interplay there will be between worldgen and play-modes, ie switching between the two?
Also, were there plans to have adventure mode take over historical figures, instead of poofing them into existence?
Also, what about specific goals or directives for more esoteric facets of world gen...see spoiler.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Will we ever get half elves?

Made me think, in world gen, if there were both elf and (whatever would find an elf attractive) civilizations in existence, but there had never been a horrible half-elf abomination which one could take control of, then one could select this race and advance world-gen a few dozen years in order to obtain a legitimate (hehe) historical half-elf. Figure it might be doable by marrying two members and forcing one to migrate to the other, (plus either an expanded race selection or a slightly more complex procedural race mixer abomination algorithm), but anyway the thought of playing the first of a kind made me curious.

I'm not sure if you can retire a fortress and get the game to skip forward a few years in time, Toady can you please confirm this?

Worldgen, or some aspects of it will continue during gameplay as of the next release (what, if anything, is in worldgen that will be left out of the continuation of the world during gameplay?), so even if you were unable to skip forward in time you could still play around as an adventurer or build a new fortress, and the world would continue on.

[WillowLuman]

Also, were there plans to have adventure mode take over historical figures, instead of poofing them into existence?

The problem with limiting adventurers to pre-existing figures is that the player is severely limited. I think he said he's planning on allowing control of world-gen beings (and potentially megabeasts), but leaving in the retcon-into-existence option as well.

[monk12]

Also, were there plans to have adventure mode take over historical figures, instead of poofing them into existence?

The problem with limiting adventurers to pre-existing figures is that the player is severely limited. I think he said he's planning on allowing control of world-gen beings (and potentially megabeasts), but leaving in the retcon-into-existence option as well.

Yes, the plan is you'll be able to take over an existing historical figure, or you'll be able to create your own character who is assumed to be one of the faceless masses history doesn't mention... yet.

There isn't yet the ability to time-skip, but it's a planned feature. Right now the best you can do is start/abandon a fortress a bunch of times- each new start will cycle the year forward to the next spring. Though actually, with worldgen activities continuing into play, that might change, or be a more involved process. Do world activities advance after an abandon? Will the game simulate world activities before the next fortress is founded?

[zwei]

There's already making of gristly trophies by invading armies. Not any rape or sexcrimes outside night trolls and that one story...

I wasn't thinking of rape when I asked the question but instead things like leaders being influenced by a beautiful villain. Also situations like the one in Beowulf.

Toady said that he wasn't morally opposed to the depiction of sex, though he was opposed to explicit depiction of rape and other sex crimes. However, he was wary of the media attention it would bring. The stuff you suggest is probably planned, but won't be implemented for quite a while.

Many of the reports that come through announcements, combat, sparring, and hunting logs would earn the game an 18+ rating, if it were not ASCII. The latest set of updates I've put through to the Masterwork succession fortress are highly indicative - continuous rioting, disorderly conduct, vandalism, dehydration, major dysfunction of the legal system, blood-sucking mayors, dwarves forced to drink vomit, dwarves stripping off, going berserk in hospitals, slicing unicorns in half, sieges, rains of beer, massive junk stockpiles...

I think point is avoiding self appointed Moral Guardians and Thing of The Children people.

As such, avoiding sex stuff and firearms is enough - they only care if case is easily medialized and game with ascii graphics is going to be safe as long as it does not produce snuff film scripts in its logs

[Torchy]

Toady said that he wasn't morally opposed to the dtion of sex, though he was opposed to explicit dtion of rape and other sex crimes. However, he was wary of the media attention it would bring. The stuff you suggest is probably planned, but won't be implemented for quite a while.

Many of the reports that come through announcements, combat, sparring, and hunting logs would earn the game an 18+ rating, if it were not ASCII. The latest set of updates I've put through to the Masterwork succession fortress are highly indicative - continuous rioting, disorderly conduct, vandalism, dehydration, major dysfunction of the legal system, blood-sucking mayors, dwarves forced to drink vomit, dwarves stripping off, going berserk in hospitals, slicing unicorns in half, sieges, rains of beer, massive junk stockpiles...

I think point is avoiding self appointed Moral Guardians and Thing of The Children people.

As such, avoiding sex stuff and firearms is enough - they only care if case is easily medialized and game with ascii graphics is going to be safe as long as it does not produce snuff film scripts in its logs

If there's anything DF does do, it's produce the grittiest descriptions of wanton killing ever to come out of a game log.

I don't think Toady's aversion to firearms in DF has anything to do with unwanted attention, though.

[MaximumZero]

From what I gather, the Toady One wants to keep us playing in the 12th century or so.

[BinaryBeast1010011010]

Eh, a fantasy world can easily become scifi with enough modding

[zwei]

I don't think Toady's aversion to firearms in DF has anything to do with unwanted attention, though.

What was just example of what kind of attention he is avoiding.

[Caldfir]

Will we ever get half elves?

Pretty sure I've read this is planned.  The exact problem is that the human and elf races (or whatever it is you want to be half of) are defined in the raws, and there isn't an obvious clean way of making something halfway between two text files that's going to make sense.  The presumed first step is to get chimera-types (like centaurs and gryphons) as something that can be generated by the game, and then expand that to more refined creature-mixing systems:

Threetoe:   Okay, so the last question: 'I was reading the suggestion thread on interspecies breeding the other day, and I was hoping that you could discuss the notion of extending the breeding system to include such things as hybrids to a greater extent, primarily half-breeds among the sapient beings like elves, humans, dwarves, etc., and all the possible fun that arises from that, aside from stuff like discrimination, ethnic cleansing and increased interracial tensions, a more diverse and less static set of races populating the world would no doubt contribute to the richness of the game.'

Toady:   Yeah, I mean we're for it. The snatcher story, for instance, had an elf-goblin hybrid which didn't even have a human component to it.

Threetoe:   Yeah, I've written a few stories about this. We definitely want to entertain these possibilities.

Toady:   Basically, we would have done it already, it's just a matter of overcoming some technical challenges. Do you just create new raws for all of the half forms? Then what happens if there are quarter forms and so on, or if you have one part elf, human, dwarf and goblin? Does it try and average the raws or come up with a one-to-one correspondence between the different body parts? It's kind of like the polymorph problem where you turn into another humanoid and right now your equipment just drops on the ground, even though the werewolf could theoretically hold things and wear things that were stretchy enough, or something, or just stayed on, like a little hat. It doesn't know how to do that, or transfer wounds, for that matter. Once we understand how that works, which is an easier problem than coming up with a mixture of creatures, then there's also the centaur problem, of taking pieces of creatures and gluing them onto each other; taking the top half of a person and gluing them onto most of a horse, except for the head. These are all easier problems than trying to procedurally just come up with the child of two creatures, but it's still an intriguing problem. So I'm not sure I'd just jump in and be, like, here's the half and two-halves breeding can just do a Mendelian genetics type thing, and sometimes they're a whole, sometimes it's one race or another, sometimes it produces another half, like half-elf/half-goblin. It could work that way, but it would be interesting to be able to get something more smeared, but it's difficult. That's part of the reason it hasn't happened yet; it's an intriguing and difficult problem.

So they're going to happen when/if the technical considerations get figured out. 

I'm not sure if you can retire a fortress and get the game to skip forward a few years in time, Toady can you please confirm this?

Worldgen, or some aspects of it will continue during gameplay as of the next release (what, if anything, is in worldgen that will be left out of the continuation of the world during gameplay?), so even if you were unable to skip forward in time you could still play around as an adventurer or build a new fortress, and the world would continue on.

I'm fairly certain that the fact that the devlog has focused around all the work to get worldgen activities into play while he hasn't mentioned doing the opposite means that this feature isn't in the upcoming release, but it's pretty high on my wish list for sure. 

As for what happens in woldgen that doesn't during play as of the upcoming release, we've heard nothing about (as far as I am aware): 

• night troll abductions/conversions
• gods cursing mortals or giving them powers
• beast rampages
• new sites being founded
• existing sites expanding
• world-economy stuff

I'm sure there's more, and it is likely that the in-play world will never generate legends that look exactly the same as worldgen stuff, though of course it will get closer. 

Naturally, since I have no quotes on this one, this isn't a definitive answer, but asking "what's not in the upcoming release" is a pretty tough and open-ended question to ask.