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[ToonyMan]

We got ourselves a shit talker.  Let's try to break this down.

Toonyman: Why are you so concerned about the colors right now? The colors may or may not have meaning, but we can't draw any conclusions on what they mean until we have more information.  Also, why did you claim town immediately?

It's the first thing to go on for today!  Don't willy-wagger your sappy wand of emotions around me mister!  Are you claiming scum??  That would be quite good for us.

There are other things to go on, like regular RVS questions for instance.

You can do that if you like, I have a better method I think since it's actual and real.

What would give idea that I am claiming scum?

You asked me why I claimed town, should we claim something different scum sir?

  If it's my questioning why you claimed to be imperial first thing:
There are two.main ways of looking at the game:
   1. Everyone is town until proven scum.
This the way that I view the game.  With this view claiming town  is useless because everyone is already assumed to be town, doing so simply makes it look like your scum eager to pretend that he/she is town.
   2. Everyone is scum until proven town.
In this view claiming town is still useless as you either seem to again be scum eager to appear town, or incompetent town.

This is useless word filler, thanks for that.

Asking someone why they claimed town does not imply that they are claiming the opposite.

Ah, but you see there are "unspoken" words in all of ours posts.  It it by finding these subtleties do we catch scum.

You have also failed to answer my question.  Unless you meant that your claiming town was the first thing to go on today. In which case you still failed to answer why you were so concerned about the colors.

Again, you're being an idiot by saying the same thing over and over again to fill space.

Also: "Willy-wagger your sappy wand of emotions"
What....
 What the heck is that supposed to mean?

"The colors may or may not have meaning, but we can't draw any conclusions on what they mean until we have more information"
This is useless, spineless, cowardly.  You're yielding to your passive emotions of scumitude in other words.  Try to obscure matters more if you want to.

[Phantom of The Library]

Let's try to break this down.

Spoiler: Number One (click to show/hide)

Toonyman: Why are you so concerned about the colors right now? The colors may or may not have meaning, but we can't draw any conclusions on what they mean until we have more information.  Also, why did you claim town immediately?

It's the first thing to go on for today!  Don't willy-wagger your sappy wand of emotions around me mister!  Are you claiming scum??  That would be quite good for us.

There are other things to go on, like regular RVS questions for instance.

You can do that if you like, I have a better method I think since it's actual and real.

You claim that it is real, however, we have little to no information other than the colors that people's names are in. After we have seen someone lynched or their identities otherwise confirmed, then we actually have something to talk about. 

Or say you had claimed imperial and then said from there that that means that all the people in blue are imperial as well since that is the color that your name is in and the color that the emperor speaks in, that would be an theory that I would find more acceptable, but you stated that since the emperor talks in blue, you're imperial.

Spoiler: Number Two (click to show/hide)

What would give idea that I am claiming scum?

You asked me why I claimed town, should we claim something different scum sir?

There is nothing I say you should claim as, I asked because the act of claiming town in itself is a useless and counterproductive action.

Spoiler: Number Three (click to show/hide)

  If it's my questioning why you claimed to be imperial first thing:
There are two.main ways of looking at the game:
   1. Everyone is town until proven scum.
This the way that I view the game.  With this view claiming town  is useless because everyone is already assumed to be town, doing so simply makes it look like your scum eager to pretend that he/she is town.
   2. Everyone is scum until proven town.
In this view claiming town is still useless as you either seem to again be scum eager to appear town, or incompetent town.

This is useless word filler, thanks for that.

I was not filling up space, I was explaining in as clear terms as possible, in a manner as easy to read as possible on my phone, my reasons for asking you why you claimed town.  If I had wanted to fill up space I could have gone on for paragraphs about game theory and explain each point in-depth.

You have also failed to answer my question.  Unless you meant that your claiming town was the first thing to go on today. In which case you still failed to answer why you were so concerned about the colors.

Again, you're being an idiot by saying the same thing over and over again to fill space.

Ooooh, I had one slightly repetitiousness line in a post from my phone, where editing is nearly impossible, that surely means that I'm trying to fill up space.  With something that spans two lines at most.  Yeah, right.

Spoiler: Number Four (click to show/hide)

Asking someone why they claimed town does not imply that they are claiming the opposite.

Ah, but you see there are "unspoken" words in all of ours posts.  It it by finding these subtleties do we catch scum.

You are looking at a subtlety that doesn't exist.  It is by searching for unspoken words that we find scum, but that can only be done if the words exist in the first place.  There is a difference between finding a slip in someone's argument or behavior revealing them as scum and taking words and making something out of them that isn't implied and then saying that the person is scum because of that.

Spoiler: Number Five (click to show/hide)

Also: "Willy-wagger your sappy wand of emotions"
What....
 What the heck is that supposed to mean?

"The colors may or may not have meaning, but we can't draw any conclusions on what they mean until we have more information"
This is useless, spineless, cowardly.  You're yielding to your passive emotions of scumitude in other words.  Try to obscure matters more if you want to.

Oh, so being calm is now a scum trait?  Wow, my world has been blown.  I'll be sure to suspect every person who seems perfectly calm and un-worried about whether or not they're going to be caught from now on.  Would it comfort you if I USED CAPS LOCK, or used some d*** cursewords?  Would that make you feel better? 

I am not being spineless and cowardly, I'm avoiding jumping the gun and coming to false conclusions on the color issue until there is some actual data that can be discussed so actual conclusions can be made.

From my point of view you're the one who is obscuring matters by focusing on the colors and how they relate to people's alignments when the only alignments we know of are our own and of course the emperor, unless you happen to be the emperor, which last I checked you weren't.

Now, I will admit that this is my first role-heavy mafia, so I can't claim to speak from experience or even knowledge of this type of game, just the conclusions that I have come to using my head and knowledge from previous, role-light, games.

 


Toaster: If you were a cult leader of some sort, how would you choose what members to pick?

Simple: How helpful do you think the emperor will be to the imperial cause?

Grand Emperor Bookthras: If an officer were about to be lynched, would you attempt to save them by revealing their status as town?  Why or why not?

[Bookthras]

Phantom:

Grand Emperor Bookthras: If an officer were about to be lynched, would you attempt to save them by revealing their status as town?  Why or why not?

Interesting question. What do you think I know about officers, and their statuses? If you were in my Imperial shoes, how would you answer your own question?


On other topics, Toaster: how alone do you think you are in the universe, and how will you choose your target for your action tonight?

Simple: please give your own answer to the question you asked Think, with explanation.

[Bookthras]

Regarding the colours thing:

Oooh Toaster I guess.  Why are you orange still?  The Emperor speaks blue and I am labeled as blue so I am clearly imperial.

As much as I applaud the notion of poking at the setting and exploring a riddle, I have it on good authority that it's not too useful a pursuit, or at least not one that is going to help find scum or win the game.

I exchanged some clarifying PMs with GG today, during the course of which we talked a bit about the colour thing. In brief, he admitted that while there's some meaning to them, it's not role related, as colours were done before he assigned the roles; he also hinted that we won't have enough information to figure them out probably until the game ends, and that we shouldn't worry too much about it.

Not that I object to keep looking for meaning there though, I'm certainly curious and gods know I'm not one to leave a riddle alone, but if done it should be in addition to scumhunting, not instead of, and colours should hardly count as evidence to hang your vote on.


Message ends. Carry on.

[ToonyMan]

Alright, I will oblige for the Emperor.

[Toaster]

Servant:

Simple:  I can't help but notice your "subtle" attempt to group yourself with the Imperial side, there.

To answer your question literally, if your scum team plays badly it'll probably best for the Imperials as the other faction will be pouncing on your missteps.  To answer the question you meant to ask, probably the Cybrid side- the human infighting will allow them to accomplish their goals in the background.

Toaster: What would the main benefit for a player to group himself with the Imperial side (assuming he is not actually an Imperial)?

Are Rebels not scum just as much as Cybrids are?


Simple:  Why not?  Did I not answer your question?


Phantom:  I'd probably pick players I trusted to be competent first, and ones with roles I wanted (or wanted to eliminate) second.  If that's the same person, so much the better.


Book:  I think there's at least something else out there.  Also, I will choose targets for any theoretical night action I have by what will best serve the Emperor.

[Simple]

@Phantom: Alright, but why do you think Book is a big threat for cybrids ? As for your similar question Emperor is both an asset and a disadvantage. While we got confirmed and good town player,one kill is enough to end the game. Also it makes Cybrids and Rebels less likely to off themselves as they probably will focus on him. Wait. Now i think of it it's not that likely as they can focus on each other waiting for the other group to off the emperor. Urgh, that's more wifom than anything else so i better shut up now...

@Bookthras: Assuming there were no big changes in roleset i would choose to get rid of the Cybrid, they seem to get more firepower with each memeber than rebels do and geting rid of them earlier would be more beneficial. Especially since one of the rebels is a snowman (unless that was flavor only) which makes rebels possible actions pool smaller.

@Toaster: Well, you have not answered my question, you answered your own interpretation. While i see where are you coming from , if i would let you just do it now what would stop you from doing it again to dodge other questions ?

[Servant Corps]

Are Rebels not scum just as much as Cybrids are?

Don't be cute. Answer the question.

[Servant Corps]

Actually, let me add something to that question:

What would be the disadvantage for a non-Imperial to claim Imperial, and why would a non-Imperial claim to be Imperial despite that?

[Toaster]

Simple:

Toaster: Blue one looks malevolent.Also: what's do you think is more likely if we play bad : Rebel win or Cybrid win ?

To answer the question you meant to ask, probably the Cybrid side- the human infighting will allow them to accomplish their goals in the background.

How is that not an answer to your question?

Regardless, unvote.  We got real scum on our hands.


Servant:

Actually, let me add something to that question:

What would be the disadvantage for a non-Imperial to claim Imperial, and why would a non-Imperial claim to be Imperial despite that?

Hello rebel scum!  If you were Imperial, you'd know what the Imperial wincon is (Emperor lives).  Obviously you know you want to get rid of the Emperor (your wincon, opening flavor).  Given that, plus your defense of the rebel side, makes you obv, OBVrebel.

To answer your silly questions, the main benefit would be that they're putting out the "Look at me, I'm town!" mindset.  What do you want your fellow rebels and the cybrids to do?  Claim scum?  It'd be nice, but it's never that easy.

As for your addendum, there is no disadvantage, really.  Given that, why wouldn't they do it?

Let's test this theory.  Are you Imperial, rebel, or cybrid?

[Servant Corps]

Servant:

Actually, let me add something to that question:

What would be the disadvantage for a non-Imperial to claim Imperial, and why would a non-Imperial claim to be Imperial despite that?

Hello rebel scum!  If you were Imperial, you'd know what the Imperial wincon is (Emperor lives).  Obviously you know you want to get rid of the Emperor (your wincon, opening flavor).  Given that, plus your defense of the rebel side, makes you obv, OBVrebel.

To answer your silly questions, the main benefit would be that they're putting out the "Look at me, I'm town!" mindset.  What do you want your fellow rebels and the cybrids to do?  Claim scum?  It'd be nice, but it's never that easy.

As for your addendum, there is no disadvantage, really.  Given that, why wouldn't they do it?

Let's test this theory.  Are you Imperial, rebel, or cybrid?

First, I'm Imperial.

Second, I'll give you the answer I'm looking for.

Rebels are scum, there's no question about it. And scum does want to appear "townie", which in this case, is the Imperial side.

However, there's clearly a prioritization of targets at work though. Not all scum are equal on all days of the games. Hunting rebels is nice, but the goal is to control them, list them, mark them, and then lynch them when a greater threat (the cult-like Cybrids) are destroyed.

Scum wants to avoid getting lynched, but if they know that they won't be lynched at a certain time once they claimed their role, then they just might. They may do so if they want to avoid getting lynched (so that the Imperials know to focus on the "greater threat" in the meantime), or they may want to find other people of their scumteam (rebels trying to contact rebels). The disadvantage of claiming Imperial is that you cannot claim your scum role. You can only claim one role at a time.

What might deter scum from doing so is the argument that they might get lynched later on once the "greater threat" is eliminated...or that they might still get lynched now, because the Imperials might want to catch a known threat rather than hunt for an unknown one. So scum may still not claim, even when it is advantageous for them.

But that doesn't mean scum has to claim to be part of the Imperial team. That was my main objection to your post, Toaster. It is possible to claim scum if scum sees that it is in its best interests.

[Servant Corps]

Unvote as well.

Hello rebel scum!  If you were Imperial, you'd know what the Imperial wincon is (Emperor lives).  Obviously you know you want to get rid of the Emperor (your wincon, opening flavor).

The Imperial wincon is not "Emperor lives".

[Servant Corps]

...though I realize that trying to eliminate all threats to the Imperials/Emperor could be construed as "Emperor lives".

[Think0028]

Phantom: Still waiting on a response.

ToonyMan: Do you think Phantom is scum, or shit-talking town?

Tiruin: Suppose you were kinged by Bookthras after a long day of you arguing against everyone else. People are somewhat suspicious of you, but they are generally interested in lynching Person A. You've been spending all day arguing Person B is scum. Who do you lynch?

[Tiruin]

Think: If I were king'd, then I would put it in all my power to see who is the most scummy.

Now, as attention is divided between my own want of a lynch and the rest: I shall concede to whomever is the most scummy (as my viewpoint is different from others, given the circumstance), meaning a thorough re-read and interrogation would work until I am damned sure my target is not Imperial (town) and most sensibly scum. Still, depending mostly on the situation but this is how it basically works.

On that note, Mod: This is essentially a kingmaker with flavor right? No time limit?

Also, for Phantom, he responded.

Phantom of the Library: Who would you want most on your team as a Cybrid?

Preferably someone with experience, although if I was the converter then I would go for the player who looked the cleanest at that point in time.  At the moment the only person I'd have a preference over might be Toaster, as he taught me how to play as mafia.

Emperor Bookthras: I noticed a shift in singular-plural in your first announcement. Forgive me if I'm missing anything in a kingmaker game, but "We"?
Simple: Um, why state your own WIFOM?

@Phantom: Alright, but why do you think Book is a big threat for cybrids ? As for your similar question Emperor is both an asset and a disadvantage. While we got confirmed and good town player,one kill is enough to end the game. Also it makes Cybrids and Rebels less likely to off themselves as they probably will focus on him. Wait. Now i think of it it's not that likely as they can focus on each other waiting for the other group to off the emperor. Urgh, that's more wifom than anything else so i better shut up now...