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[kingfisher1112]

Alright, rail on my reasons all you want. They may be crap. But when Kamin's Defence is ' King Has Crap Reasons' then it goes downhill.
In post #190,  OMGUS. Your reasoning? Calling you out on voting mark. In addition, you are very adamant in continuing to beat on Vodot, despite everyone being suspicious in your books. Where is this Vodot suspicion?
In post #203, you talk down to Vodot, and beat on him and sox a bit more. And continually, I notice the ' HE WANTS TO LYNCH ICS LYNCH HIM' Argument.
Post #207 Hypocrisy
Really, I'm seeing a pattern. Vodot is dangerous to scum. Scum would probably want hm Dead. Now, I have left myself open to attack. Be careful, Kamin. You won't be lynching me too easily. Why not refer to Vodot and try to wagon him again?

[wsoxfan]

I'd even go so far as to say bussing, if not for Nerjin and wsoxfan needing to post more. All in all, not good.

Huh? I'm sorry, but I don't understand this part. Why is the fact that me and Nerjin aren't posting more indicitive that King's not bussing? I'm very confused.

[Shakerag]

So, what'd I miss? Other than the lurking.

[Why hello there, little boy.  Have you ever been in a cockpit before?]

He's experienced enough to be one, so you should listen to what he has to say.

[Yeah, but he's not King of the Mafia anymore, so he's clearly past his prime.]

Not all is well on the Kamin life front[...]

[...]seemingly personal at times[...]

[1 - Shit happens.  We know, and we understand.  A brief heads-up is all that's required.
2 - It shouldn't be.  Yes, we can be raging assholes in game, but we try to leave that at the door, so to speak.]

I will attempt to condense my case against Kamin into a few key points.

[Thank god.]

Post #207 Hypocrisy

[I don't like repeating myself, kingfisher.]

[webadict]

Pfp.

@king: I do not need to vote to point out either bandwagoning or bussing. However, I am at an impasse as to whether I should vote you or Kamen. Also, I had simply forgotten to.

@wsoxfab: One cannot bus someone that is not his partner.

@shakerag: I gave up the title as per tradition. Not because I don't deserve it. Leafsnail is currently in charge of giving the title away.

[Shakerag]

@shakerag: I gave up the title as per tradition. Not because I don't deserve it. Leafsnail is currently in charge of giving the title away.

[I know; I'm teasing you, old man.]

[Nerjin]

-snip-
Any town role. I'm obvious when I'm scum.

@Kamin Um, what? I tried to say that I fell newbier than you, not less newbie than you, sorry if I was misunderstood. King said 'OMGUS' and yet you are only questioning me. I'm used to face to face mafia, and in my own language. Because of my sometimes rusty english, is easy to spot me when I'm scum. I think that you are being a little evil with me, maybe it has a reason. Luckily, we are in the RVS, so I will vote you now. Kamin.

((Excuse my lack of questions, I'm quite busy irl right now))

@Kamin, I've already said why I said that: I'm not a native english-speaker, sometimes I find it difficult to defend myself. What I've meant to say it's that I always look scummy for everybody, because I don't come up with the right words.

Is this the first time you play a game of forum mafia? I'm just curious.

Well, I'm fingering Kamin, but it's a counter-vote most of all. Won't last long there.

@vodot, yes, I do feel vulnerable. But now I'm trying my best to not look like that and actually do something.

I have school, too. And sleep. And things like that, and I'm even asking more questions than you, despite it being 'reactionary', as you claim.

You're really convinced I'm scum, don't you? You are seeking for 'evilness' where's nowhere to be found. I understand, I'm a suspect, you are a suspect, everybody is. But I think you are wasting your time with me, if those are your reasons to vote me. You saw my vulnerability and now you are trying to take advantage of it. I'm not saying this because it's me the one being voted, I'd think this if you were doing it to anybody else. It's easy to scum pick on the once-more vulnerable townie.

Nerjin, it's D1, you are scum. You saw how a townie started to dig his tomb and, once he noticed that, tried to fix it. Won't you try to get him lynched because of his first mistakes?

 

So Webaddict, mind justifying why your predessecor may have OMGUS’ed it up? Why he constantly played the sympathy card instead of answering questions in a satisfactory manner? Made excuses like crazy? Why haven’t you tried to even half-ass an explanation? Maybe you could explain why he tried to make me look like a scum for picking up on scum-tells? Maybe it’s because we’re supposed to forget about that just because he's replaced out? Well I haven’t. I’m still sure you two [one?] are scum. Convince me otherwise though if you would.

[webadict]

1) So Webaddict, mind justifying why your predessecor may have OMGUS’ed it up?

2) Why he constantly played the sympathy card instead of answering questions in a satisfactory manner? Made excuses like crazy?

3) Why haven’t you tried to even half-ass an explanation?

4) Maybe you could explain why he tried to make me look like a scum for picking up on scum-tells? Maybe it’s because we’re supposed to forget about that just because he's replaced out?

Well I haven’t. I’m still sure you two [one?] are scum. Convince me otherwise though if you would.

Sorry man, I had to break that up. I literally cannot read it when it's bunched together.

First, I'd like to point out that my name is webadict. No capital W. No double Ds. The capital is less annoying than the double d thing.
Second, I'm not my predecessor, so everything I'm going to say is all guessing. Guessing you probably could've done yourself.
Third, even if I do guess correctly, you could simply say I'm wrong and vote me anyway with no real counter other than that.
But, let's try anyway.

1) I'm not sure where the OMGUS vote is because I literally have 0 cares about what my predecessor said. If you refer to the vote in the second post of yours, then you're taking a RVS vote and trying to underpin some sort of malicious intention to it, instead of a beginner's folly where they believe they are me and therefore don't do anything correct.
2) The fact that I'm here right now pretty much means he had legitimate excuses. Because, seriously, I replaced him. Because he was busy. You don't really lie about that.
3) Can't understand what explanations I'd have to give here, so I'll need you to reiterate what, exactly, I'm explaining. If you mean about his behavior, it's because I didn't read anything he posted.
4) People do not replace out to avoid scrutiny. That's both morally reprehensible and incredibly stupid. People seek replacement because of other duties. I also have no idea what scumtells you were picking up on because you seem to think I have the ability to read your mind as to your argument. Again, this problem is fairly common, but I lack telepathy, so providing a further explained argument would be nice.

I mean, you didn't have to unvote me, either, just because I replaced in, especially seeing as how you were planning to continue a case against me for things I never did. So, really, make up your mind. Am I responsible for his behavior or not?

Also, because I forgot to earlier, Kamen.

@shakerag: I gave up the title as per tradition. Not because I don't deserve it. Leafsnail is currently in charge of giving the title away.

[I know; I'm teasing you, old man.]

Toaster's older than I am! Geez!

[Nerjin]

1) Sorry about it all being bunched up I'll try to avoid that in the future.

2) I don't know about illegitimate excuse. I'm still suspicious of his actions but since a big part of my vote was how much he lurked.

3)But since everyone caught a case of lurkititus I had to rescend it. Now that he's replaced out most of the "I'm a poor little child." thing goes away. That's why I unvoted.

4) I just wanted to see what you thought of your predecessor's behavior but it appears you don't care at all.

P.S. Sorry about the mispelling.

[webadict]

4) I just wanted to see what you thought of your predecessor's behavior but it appears you don't care at all.

Of course not. I already know I'm not scum.

[Nerjin]

4) I just wanted to see what you thought of your predecessor's behavior but it appears you don't care at all.

Of course not. I already know I'm not scum.

You may know you're scum but we don't. Surely you would at least look through what he did to be able to deal with any heavy contradictions if any come up.

[Kamin]

@ All: Please actually take your time to read this, as I've taken some time to answer outstanding questions since my hiatus.

@ Sox:

Jim and Shakerag:I have to believe that the Scum has at least one experienced player, so I just want to ask you two one question. If you were town, what would your number one scumtell be?

Now, I must admit that you've been pretty good with your responses, Vodot. However, I'm still not satisfied with them--it really does seem like you want to get rid of the ICs for being ICs. Am I saying I don't see them as possible scum? Not at all. It just almost seems to me that you're going on a witch hunt for them. This is all fine and well, but it just makes me think you've got something to hide from them, and that you're worried about them finding out. I think you look even guiltier than Mark at this point. Vodot

I bolded the parts that stuck out to me. What changed your thinking? In one of your first posts, you suggested that either Shake or Jim would be scum. Then you reversed this position when vodot was asking the IC's questions about what they'd do if they were scum-essentially showing the same thinking as you. So why'd you change this? Was it for the convience of what appeared to be an easy vote- because the IC's were blasting him for his statements, right? However, the more I look at this post, the more red flags I'm seeing.

As for the first quote that you are suspicious of, please note that it was the first day of play, and I was (still am) trying to figure out how to play this game. Also note that I don't think it is a completely unreasonable assumption to make--unless you really push the matter like Vodot did. I wasn't going out of my way to get ICs lynched like he did, which is evidence Vodot knew something about the ICs we didn't--namely, that they were town and he was not. I think you are observant enough to have noticed the difference. If not, go back and do some reading. If you feel that this is truly a convincing scumtell on my part rather than a tenuous link, that's your prerogative.

If we're both lucky enough not to be lynched or NKed before next RVS, I'll make certain to grill you as much as I grill everybody else 

Bold added by me for emphasis.

So, if I may ask, why did you add the the first part of the last sentence? That seems to be a pretty strong indication that you know my role... as the cop is not you, there is only one way to know my role at this point. And that is to be scum. In other funny news, your next interaction with me calls me scum. Why? Did I slip and give away my role? No, I expressed I had no issue tie-breaking. Clearly that's enough evidence to accuse me of being in a scum team[/sarcasm] .(post in question shown below.

It's a statement. I wasn't sure if I'd be lynched or NK'ed, and you wouldn't know either unless you were scum. As far as your role is concerned, I couldn't possibly know your role unless I was a cop. There's no other possible way to know it without you being lynched. You could be a doctor for all I know (which King seemed to be trying to guess at), and I still couldn't know. So again, I think your argument/evidence lacks basis.

Thank you for being patient and referring me to your questions.

@ Jim：
Given that I had to go off of evidence primarily from Day 1, I felt that Vodot truly kept condemning himself. He attacked everybody with vitriol and gusto, and it seemed quite un-town to proceed in such a manner. He also seemed extremely paranoid about you ICs, which actually led me to think that neither you nor Shake were scum. As it turns out, Shake was not scum, and also happened to get NKed. If that's not damning, I'm not sure what is.

Now, to be completely honest (given the information I provided), I still think Vodot is scum. But King puts Vodot to shame if he is. See, for instance, the progression of the bandwagon--

Extend.
Alright, I havevreally got no idea who to vote.

Kamin.
Your constant
A) Accusing people of 'Witchunting'
B) Pointless Arguments
And C) General tying to appear town in The worst ways possible
Has earned you a vote.

Not only was this sloppy, but King posted his vote less than two hours after he really had "no idea who to vote." And this, of course, came shortly after you voted for me and Sox prodded me. Not to mention yesterday, when King posted a really, truly awful "defense" within 15 minutes of my voting him. King is lurking. And not just a little bit.

More than just this, Vodot actually dredged up a hell of a lot of very pertinent info. I respect that, and although Vodot has attacked others more than I think he's defended himself, he still has contributed a million times more than King. I've been waiting for something substantive from him, but it's never come.


@Vodot: You have a very nice case. I can see you put a lot of time into it, so I don't imagine you'd be willing to drop the vote after all of the work you did. It's ok to be honest here--if you're convinced I'm scum, I won't waste my time writing a wall of text explaining every point away. I still respect what you've done, regardless. If, however, there are questions you'd like to ask me, I'd be willing to answer them. Just keep in mind that everybody makes mistakes, be it town or scum, and this is both of our first game. I've been trying to find my own personal style of playing, so I've probably seemed all over the place... Nice and cordial to finger-pointing asshole, which I readily admit is completely contradictory and sloppy. I don't think it's inherently scummy so much as n00bish and stupid. I've yet to find a balance with play, but I'm trying. I know you've been grappling with the same problem of personal style balance just as I have, which is probably pretty normal this early in our respective Mafia careers. Anyway, let me know if there's anything in particular I can answer, and I will do my best to do so.

[kingfisher1112]

You once again accuse me of lurking. I have mentioned on multiple occasions that I am in a completely different time zone. And it sucks because all of you get on at about midnight here, when I'm asleep.
And again, the defence ' His Defence is crap' doesn't work.
Also, suck up more to Vodot. It won't do anything, just entertain me at your futile, failing attempts at trying to get his vote on your side.

[vodot]

...I don't imagine you'd be willing to drop the vote after all of the work you did. It's ok to be honest here--if you're convinced I'm scum, I won't waste my time writing a wall of text explaining every point away.

Nah, I like you after all, Kamin. Like Nerjin before you, I think you just finally told town under extreme pressure; it just took you a little longer. Actually, it's me who doesn't want to waste my time, reading your responses to my points. This attitude reversal was enough for me, for now. Unvote.

Well, now I'm really interested in this game again.

Oh ick, King, what is this garbage?

Also, suck up more to Vodot. It won't do anything, just entertain me at your futile, failing attempts at trying to get his vote on your side.

I don't get that impression at all- This isn't "more of the same" from Kamin; this was a complete reversal of attitude. To me, he just sounds like honest and embarassed Town that hasn't been playing as well or consistently as he would've liked.  But You aren't contributing anything new with your post at all, and I think you're being nasty just to be nasty. What good is your nastiness doing right now? He's on the block, the case has been made.  He either is or he isn't, based on reason and evidence alone.  Insulting someone in such a weak and exposed position is a sign of meanness and of your lack of concern that we lynch the CORRECT player tonight. 

And don't think I can't recognize your quote as a thinly veiled assertion and plea about what will or won't change my mind.

Now explain the bandwagon, King.

And I'd do it fast, you mean, suspicious, lurking, increasingly desperate SCUM.

[IC's: I would appreciate a no-nonsense read on the authenticity of Kamin's Noob Lament (TM!).

Also, is there an established and previously analzed point in BM where we noobs first start clumsily changing the font size for effect? If not, I'd like to register a trademark on 'Noob-sizing', or some other attractively ironic or punny term for this.  Does it work occasionally, or is it merely obnoxious?]

[wsoxfan]

@ Sox:

Jim and Shakerag:I have to believe that the Scum has at least one experienced player, so I just want to ask you two one question. If you were town, what would your number one scumtell be?

Now, I must admit that you've been pretty good with your responses, Vodot. However, I'm still not satisfied with them--it really does seem like you want to get rid of the ICs for being ICs. Am I saying I don't see them as possible scum? Not at all. It just almost seems to me that you're going on a witch hunt for them. This is all fine and well, but it just makes me think you've got something to hide from them, and that you're worried about them finding out. I think you look even guiltier than Mark at this point. Vodot

I bolded the parts that stuck out to me. What changed your thinking? In one of your first posts, you suggested that either Shake or Jim would be scum. Then you reversed this position when vodot was asking the IC's questions about what they'd do if they were scum-essentially showing the same thinking as you. So why'd you change this? Was it for the convience of what appeared to be an easy vote- because the IC's were blasting him for his statements, right? However, the more I look at this post, the more red flags I'm seeing.

As for the first quote that you are suspicious of, please note that it was the first day of play, and I was (still am) trying to figure out how to play this game. Also note that I don't think it is a completely unreasonable assumption to make--unless you really push the matter like Vodot did. I wasn't going out of my way to get ICs lynched like he did, which is evidence Vodot knew something about the ICs we didn't--namely, that they were town and he was not. I think you are observant enough to have noticed the difference. If not, go back and do some reading. If you feel that this is truly a convincing scumtell on my part rather than a tenuous link, that's your prerogative.

In all honesty, that's not the big scumtell that I had on you. I found it odd that your opinion changed that fast, but that wasn't the big scum tell that I found on you. The next one that you addressed is.

If we're both lucky enough not to be lynched or NKed before next RVS, I'll make certain to grill you as much as I grill everybody else 

Bold added by me for emphasis.

So, if I may ask, why did you add the the first part of the last sentence? That seems to be a pretty strong indication that you know my role... as the cop is not you, there is only one way to know my role at this point. And that is to be scum. In other funny news, your next interaction with me calls me scum. Why? Did I slip and give away my role? No, I expressed I had no issue tie-breaking. Clearly that's enough evidence to accuse me of being in a scum team[/sarcasm] .(post in question shown below.

It's a statement. I wasn't sure if I'd be lynched or NK'ed, and you wouldn't know either unless you were scum. As far as your role is concerned, I couldn't possibly know your role unless I was a cop. There's no other possible way to know it without you being lynched. You could be a doctor for all I know (which King seemed to be trying to guess at), and I still couldn't know. So again, I think your argument/evidence lacks basis.

This is the big scumtell that I found on you. I personally think that this statement is just damage control for a scum slip up. I have a very good idea on your role as well Kamin, and I am very sure that you are scum. I actually should clarify on this a little bit, what I mean is that you must know my towniness/scuminess very well in order to 'hope' that I won't be NK'd.

Thank you for being patient and referring me to your questions.[/i]

No problem. I understand that RL can be a bitch at times.
@Kingfisher-I won't jump on the bandwagon like you did to Kamin, but tell me, why did you vote Kamin without providing any evidence beyond what me, jim and vodot did? You could have at least provided some examples of this.

[webadict]

4) I just wanted to see what you thought of your predecessor's behavior but it appears you don't care at all.

Of course not. I already know I'm not scum.

You may know you're scum but we don't. Surely you would at least look through what he did to be able to deal with any heavy contradictions if any come up.

... Why? Again, I can only guess what he's thinking. And it tells me jack about who's scum. Or is this Cover My Tracks: The Game?

Why do I care about a contradiction my predecessor did? Am I supposed to avoid HIS contradictions? No. I'm not. Because that makes about the same amount of sense as a balloon made of rocks.

You once again accuse me of lurking. I have mentioned on multiple occasions that I am in a completely different time zone. And it sucks because all of you get on at about midnight here, when I'm asleep.
And again, the defence ' His Defence is crap' doesn't work.
Also, suck up more to Vodot. It won't do anything, just entertain me at your futile, failing attempts at trying to get his vote on your side.

Wow. That's kinda rude. Kamin's actually trying now, but I feel your vote is just as terrible as his was. What makes you think that you're NOT going to get lynched? What have you done to stop it, kingfisher1112?

Because people aren't here to entertain you, and if you think taunting's going to work out for you, then you're going to be disappointed. Your case is poor, and you're not nearly trying as hard as Kamin is, even if his case on vodot is terrible.