Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Itnetlolor]

The stockpile thing is awesome. If you have a MASTER-IN pile, Make it a large and thick ring around the QS cart (or 3 of them, linked to the one receiver (give each one the QS- prefix to know their role, if you have other minecart systems for other purposes); depending on the inflow (rocks, wood, trade goods)), and linked from there, spread it exclusively from the M-IN pile to the other IN piles assigned to specific shops, unless you want to further filter out by type (especially relevant for specific wood and stone types; mass production or specific crafting). With the stone, due to their weight, and sometimes needing a wheelbarrow: I suggest making a separate M-IN pile for those, unless you don't mind waiting for stone to arrive.

How I would setup (usually a good few years in to update hauling and etc.):

		/→	WOOD	→	Specifics (if you can sort them out; if you're picky (Stonesense reasons))
MASTER-IN		→	Finished-Goods / Furniture	→	Quality or types (mass barrel/bin storage)
		\→	STONE	→	Specific Stones (Color/Eco/Non-Eco/Ore)

You can also change that up to be a Master Food IN pile, which splits into drinks, prepared, unprepared fish, seeds, and so on, and divide the unprepared stuff (cookable foods, brewables, and etc, to their respective processing centers (link only for all). Similar with a Master Refuse IN pile, and sort out the bones, while keeping the miasma contained in a minimal space, or if you get alot of corpses quickly, a pre-loading IN pile, and then link that to the condensed processing pile (get bones and leather out of it).

The food one is really helpful, especially seed storage. I've never seen my farms run so smoothly after doing that; and reserving a whole room to store seeds (with it's own QS-system) makes everyone with hauling tasks make good use of it. Keeps your fort nice and clean and seed-free; and the farmers go nuts keeping your food/drink stocks full.

If you have any mega-constructions you are working on, make another QS-Minecart to act as a MASTER-IN (usually central to the project), and sub-piles around the perimeter, depending on bar/block type you want to use. Being picky seems easier when it comes to constructions, at least, so divisions from the Bar/Block QS-pile would help a crap-ton. I intend to do that for any future projects.

To keep your shops working at full-efficiency (minimal, to no clutter (CLT)), I suggest a form of MASTER-OUT pile (similar properties as the MASTER-IN) that all shops export to (set as LINK ONLY), and link that to the other piles the Master-IN would normally link to; especially if it's closer/more efficient; then otherwise, if it's in the path, link it to the MASTER-IN instead, and let that take care of things from there.

With all these M-IN piles, not a single peasant and soapmaker will be idle. An ideal fort.

EDIT:
Just got struck with some brilliance. I suggest that you make the Master-IN pile, respectably large, surround your primary Trade Depot. Easy-(M-)IN, Easy-(M-)OUT. Nothing but short trips. I gotta try this out. Another reason to make it so big is so you can line the perimeter of the M-IN (From everywhere, No Links)/M-OUT (from depot, Set to TAKE FROM only, and give to the rest, if needed (unless the QS-MC system is streamlined enough)) with the filtering system I described above, and then link those specified plots (which are expandable from there, even as separate rooms; Set as LINKS ONLY as to not keep circulating the system)), and you have yourself a reasonably large room/central storage room made, with sub-stations for raw materials, and QS-piles to stock them, and store other stuff that don't need to be separated like the raw materials. It should keep everything absolutely minimized for maximum efficiency.

I'll draw a diagram  or blueprint to show what I mean. I think the image below is rather self-explanatory, especially after everything I explained above. I nickname it the Trade Depot Stockpile Microchip/CPU/Processor Mega-Filter (single-stage; can sub-divide into other/more stages (Stone, Quality Goods, Ingredients, etc.).


You can always set this in the open, or have the minecarts link into separate store rooms, or build hallways between or over the minecarts; or have a staircase run through it. This setup should make the Master-IN and -OUT rather well-centralized and short-distance every trade season that passes. Distance should be rendered rather trivial once this is complete with it's processing. Set wheelbarrows if you want to cut down the worker amounts, or if you have a bunch of heavy stuff, then set to maximum WBs.

Here's how to go about the next stages, or at least, an example (using stone only in this case) how the filter should work out from there onwards. You can think of the other stone colors as other variables for other stocks being sorted out (By-Quality, and etc. for example, for the trade depot to deal with). Alternatively, you can always exclude the minecarts, and make large spaces to store instead (save time and (H)auling screen space.). Workshops are included if you're raw-material processing:

NOTE: Just remember to link the specific cart/pile to the specific shop, and make sure they're LINK ONLY (and recycle products back to the Master-IN as LINK ONLY (M-IN takes from ALL shops that make final products); just so you don't have cross-processing. That's also why they're divided by 1 tile going outward, and not so much upwards.

GREATER NOTE: Concerning how I have the setup made, in case you're confused why I have it arranged as such: The MASTER-IN, as shown, has 3 WBs assigned to it, and always has 3 dwarves hauling into it maximum (due to using max. WBs). It's MASTER-OUT is then sorted, by hand, by every other available hauler. In theory, this is probably the most efficient setup to use, and all workshops can use their own specific stone-type/color. Excellent for those megaprojects that are quite diverse in color schemes and etc.. Also helpful for smelting things.

Oh, and if you're wondering, I used ASCII-Paint to draw them.

EDIT EDIT:
Illustration included above. Testing things out, it's not necessary to have 3 carts dumping into the same pile. The rate isn't that much quicker overall, it seems.

EDIT EDIT EDIT:
Personally, I think these systems, and illustrations (as I also described them), should be easy enough to understand to include it on the Wiki. Feel free to include it if you want, and to summarize it further as you see fit. I mean, with the MASTER-Stockpile as large as it is (IN for Depot, OUT for everything else), your entire fortress can spend no more than a season, or a week even (depending on numbers), sorting all their crap out. Can be established at any time; I suggest as early as possible, especially after the first migrant wave, as to keep your fort in action the rest of the time. Prioritize by taking out hauling tasks for your dedicated workers.

And before I forget, please allow the MASTER-IN to accept everything EXCEPT Refuse. We don't want that crap to discourage trade. Plus, Refuse is it's own sorting system, same with Stone.

[Triaxx2]

So I've found two great uses for minecarts. I have a dining hall separated from the near surface kitchens by roughly 10z. Naturally getting food down is a bit of an issue. Except that, there's a mine cart track which is filled from the cooked food stockpile, and guided down to a small stockpile near the dining hall. The small one is set to give to several larger ones, so there's lots of food available.

The second, comes up from the workshops, which are located 18z down. (On a mountain, with caverns very high up.) There are three levels to the workshops, the top being raw materials storage, the middle being the workshops themselves, and the bottom being finished materials. The Mine cart is filled from a central stockpile with finished goods, and then guided up to a stockpile just a few tiles from the Depot. It dumps and then returns. But more, that one has a pressure plate roughly 100 ticks before the dump stop, which opens and closes a raising bridge, that seals the depot from the workshops and ensures nothing gets in if the doors are closed. (A second bridge further up the track is linked to the main doors to keep anyone from hauling it if there's a siege.

Works out quite well. Infinitely expandable, if you have to run down to the magma sea as well.

[Itnetlolor]

Regarding that food one, You could always link the minecart of your kitchens/stills to dump down a shaft straight to the dining halls, and have a stockpile in-waiting at the bottom of the shaft. Reduce the workload by a few more frames per second (by not needing the pull the cart with you each trip, but use the same dumpster tactic as shown above, and make a fast-food delivery system out of it. A little soon becomes alot in the long-run).

[Urist McSpike]

Regarding that food one, You could always link the minecart of your kitchens/stills to dump down a shaft straight to the dining halls, and have a stockpile in-waiting at the bottom of the shaft. Reduce the workload by a few more frames per second (by not needing the pull the cart with you each trip, but use the same dumpster tactic as shown above, and make a fast-food delivery system out of it. A little soon becomes alot in the long-run).

Ahem.  Beware of falling food!  (This is due to a 1z drop.)

The *turkey hen egg roast (38)* strikes the Miller in the right lower leg, shattering the bone through the dog leather trousers!
The Miller's right upper leg skids along the ground, bruising the muscle through the dog leather trousers!
The Miller gives in to pain.

I haven't done any kind of master in-out piles like that, but it looks nice.  I usually do a long spiral from the mines up to the stone/metal crafting area, to haul stones up.  It's verra nice.  I'm just now playing around with seperate stockpiles, usually going like the minecart stop exploit.

[Itnetlolor]

Regarding that food one, You could always link the minecart of your kitchens/stills to dump down a shaft straight to the dining halls, and have a stockpile in-waiting at the bottom of the shaft. Reduce the workload by a few more frames per second (by not needing the pull the cart with you each trip, but use the same dumpster tactic as shown above, and make a fast-food delivery system out of it. A little soon becomes alot in the long-run).

Ahem.  Beware of falling food!  (This is due to a 1z drop.)

Here's an alternative method: Have 2 doorways and 2 pits. Fill one up, and keep the door locked below, and as everyone's stuffing their face below with one door, switch roles with the other. Just forbid the minecart after unlocking the door it links to (when you feel it's adequately stocked), and reclaim the other that it's door is locked.

Oh, and my 3-cart quantum-stocking method I mentioned above, it would usually go like this (Triples QS speeds; good for one-time use for first-time mass-storage. Recommended most for wood and stone stockpiling and megaproject central supply stocking.):
□   Dumps S
≡□  Dumps W, Collect from E
□   Dumps N

Speed things up even more, especially where stone would be concerned. Come and think of it. I gotta edit that image above.

EDIT:
And done. Image updated.

[Itnetlolor]

Just tested everything just as I described, and it works like a charm. Took only one and a half seasons to mine, produce the supplies (stone blocks for track stops (cheap and efficient, material-wise), and minecarts), and sort everything out from all the crap in the wagon, some logs from outside, and all the stones, ores, and gems (sans-wheelbarrows) inside, and to top it off, the Trade Depot as the centerpiece of the central hub. Sorting time from beginning (once finished), minus all that, took about 2-3 months tops, just the room and the path and whatever was outside (including wagon contents) being cleared. I engraved parts of the room, for now, to serve as markers for the crap to land when sorting, and soon the whole Hub will be snazzy (engraved) by the end of the year.

Additionally, since we have 12 stop points according to the layout (11 stops by sacrificing 6 O'Clock, in my case, for Merchant Access to Depot (Yes, track stops do interfere with Wagon Depot Access; checked it myself.), it helps to label them in a manner similar to a clock, and assign accordingly. Of course, you may or may not need to sacrifice one of the Hours for an access point. Provided dwarves can path past these Minecart Stop QSs with no problems, as does the merchats as well (Caution, may need a bit more area than initially shown; adjust accordingly as you see fit), then the area can work as a sort of Central Hub for navigating as well as a trade mega-center (depending on layout, always has a min/max range of 5-8 paces from the Depot. At least, given the ranges I made for my setup.

This works elegantly, and next up is to find a way to process excess refuse/corpses with minecart stops, and to also find a way to test out the refinery processes (as seen with the Stone example; since I have cleared out much stone to make the test work, and am working on housing and farming next). Oh, and I have plenty of track stops to spare while at it. About 4 of them, from the looks of it. Then again, I combined Cloth and Leather stockpiles, Food/Drink/seeds/Fish/Prepared Meals is one single stockpile, and Furniture and Finished Goods are the same stockpile. I didn't setup a weapon/armor stockpile yet, since I don't really have anything for that yet. Plus, I would be putting that stuff in my barracks anyhow.

One idea that comes to mind with the clock setup is that I can spend one side for import and storage, and the other side to serve as export.

EDIT:
Seeing as I had to start a new fort since CryBoulder fell to an invasion, this seemed like a good time to start a new fort, while testing this sucker out. I'll upload a map of the place later today. The place is all kinds of clean, and the first wave of merchants haven't arrived yet (Year 1 hasn't even ended yet, still in Summer).

I also realized that multiple dwarves can take care of one minecart no problem. But I have yet to test out if having more minecarts assigned would speed things up even faster, depending on the density of the situation. This is worthy of ‼SCIENCE‼.

[Urist McSpike]

next up is to find a way to process excess refuse/corpses with minecart stops

I used a looping track setup once, far underground, to clear my drowning traps & keep miasma to a minimum.  That has issues of its own.  So the theory was to have a looped track, around a 8x8 area, with a track stop at the far corner, dumping into a 1z channeled pit (which I intended to fill with magma at some point).  Two problems:  miasma spread too far, and the cart was quickly too heavy to be guided.  Switching the movement method to push, I promptly had my pusher with broken feet...

Final solution I did for that worked pretty great.  I had 3 larger "feeder" corpse/refuse (non-dwarf) which the initial track stop was taking from.  When the cart was filled sufficiently, it was pushed north.

But for the actual build, there was a diagonal entry access to the minecart, and the end of the loop slammed into a wall, also with a diagonal access to restrict miasma.  The only time anyone was exposed was moving the cart back to the first stop, and sometimes when loading corpses into the cart.  Of course, if this is done outside, it'd be simple to set up like the above options.

[Itnetlolor]

Okay, map's uploaded: SabreLured is online, and effective

This arrangement turned out to be insanely practical, and elegantly simple.

My only other work-around for the refuse is to keep this sorting system as it stands, and just use the stocks screen (as taken care of by the bookkeeper) to do a mass-dump. So I have to use 2 different dumping systems, however, the central hub and the minecart-stop QS has made the central focus for mass-dumping only garbage and remains now (as was intended). So, I'm not complaining. It turned out for the better anyhow.

For the sake of experiment reasons, I am using a site in the Lazy Newb World. I know, but it does make a good grounds for experimenting in the future. I might take on Bloodaxe eventually, with much greater efficiency and speed than I did with the Bloodfist; that includes using proper scaffolding this time (thanks mostly to the stone block production ratios).

After trade success happens, I'll upload a video of the system in progress as it actively vacuums the Trade Depot. I can also reload all the stuff back into the MASTER-IN or boot up an earlier save, and record it in action once it's re-activated to it's "factory settings" from the base level (stone and everything back where they used to be). Watch what I had to watch get done, and be amazed when you see it work for the first time doing a Cold Boot (AKA- Maiden Voyage).

Now that we have a proof of concept, and a working prototype, how does everyone feel about it?

EDIT:
Oh, and as it turns out, you can sort Wood out like you could with Stone. Go nuts. The system works exactly as planned.

EDIT EDIT:
Unfortunately, I didn't turn on backup saves, so I didn't have a "Factory Mode" to return to and record; however, the Trade Depot video is pending. I will use discretion with the wheelbarrows (setting from 3 to 0 when not mining) and really show the Hub in action post-trade.

For the time being, enjoy this video of fortress expansion and sorting activities happening at the same times. Excuse the poor quality; I'll explain it in the summary.
Central Hub in Action (Mining Expansion and etc.)

I suggest watching it at 300-400 speed (same FPS I was witnessing it in action).