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[Mr.Zero]

@Xny
It seems that after rereading it once again, i've misunderstood your question of "Why you are questioning him, about why he's questioning others". While all you asked what he actually hoped to really gain. This led us to this odd discussion where there will be no winner. While there are lurkers amongst us.

What do you mean by role. What role? By the way most every issue during day one will be hypothetical. I don't see you mentioning that to anyone else. I'm not 100% who is scum. I'm just trying to get information.

The forever vote-block role. About the hunting , I'm trying to do the same.

(@Shakerag )Mr.Zero: If you could choose one player, right now, to lose thier vote for the rest of the game, who would it be and why?

@Nabic
I haven't voted yet, cause there is no one here that truly strikes me as scum. I thought that Xny was lazy, which can be a scumtell. But in the end it was a huge misunderstanding.

No, a FOS is not stronger than a vote. It was just a little pressure.

Okay, I've come to a little bit of a conclusion. My scumhunting skills are almost certainly below everyone else's here, seeing as last time I played I was scum, but I'm thinking that maybe, just maybe, Mr. Zero and xny are scumbuddies. I emphasize the maybe. They seem a bit too eager to go at each others throats, and I get the impression that they're trying to cast suspicion off of themselves by constantly bombarding each other with questions and responses. I know I should probably grow a spine and be a bit more binary in my answers, but its a bit harder when you're used to actually knowing from the start who was town and who was your scumbuddy.

That is a fine theory indeed, but it you should look around before you hop on the bandwagon. If we compare me,Xny and Nabic to the rest of the players, somethind stands out. Namely how active we are, we are trying to find the scum before the day ends. The rest however is staying low, waiting till the townies fight it out and hang themselves. Doesn't that strike suspicion?

But then we have you, you stayed semi-lurking till now. You came here, cast a vote and created a good theory hoping it would support that vote. It is a good theory if it weren't for these lurkers.

Questions will come soon, as i have to leave soon.

[Captain Ford]

Captain Ford, you've been voting Nerjin since your first post this game. Why?

Random vote. I always meant to follow it up but never found the time. Honestly, I'm just having a lot of difficulty parsing everything that's going on. So I ended up putting together a spreadsheet to help me get a handle on it, and in the process noticed that kingfisher hadn't participated at all. So I called him out on it before I had to leave for class yesterday, and, well...

Sadly, I have no means with which to post for the next two weeks.
Request replacement.

... that happened.

I need to get some work done today before class, after which I'll make an effort to post tonight. I'm busy tomorrow evening, too, so I'll likely miss the end of the day unless there's another extension.

As for Nerjin, hmm... you're off the hook ... for now. Unvote

Okay, I've come to a little bit of a conclusion. My scumhunting skills are almost certainly below everyone else's here, seeing as last time I played I was scum, but I'm thinking that maybe, just maybe, Mr. Zero and xny are scumbuddies. I emphasize the maybe. They seem a bit too eager to go at each others throats, and I get the impression that they're trying to cast suspicion off of themselves by constantly bombarding each other with questions and responses. I know I should probably grow a spine and be a bit more binary in my answers, but its a bit harder when you're used to actually knowing from the start who was town and who was your scumbuddy.

So, that's a vote for Mr. Zero.

To me, most of the posting between xny and Mr. Zero seems to be mostly them trying to figure out each other's garbled posts. But it seems odd to me to label the two most active scumhunters as scum. Particularly when there are players who haven't participated much at all.

You, on the other hand, have been quick to point out your inexperience with scumhunting, due to you having never played town before, almost as a replacement for actual scumhunting. You're the only one so far who's given me a weird feeling, and I think that's why. What say you, ShoesandHats?

[xny]

@Xny
It seems that after rereading it once again, i've misunderstood your question of "Why you are questioning him, about why he's questioning others". While all you asked what he actually hoped to really gain. This led us to this odd discussion where there will be no winner. While there are lurkers amongst us.

You want to know what's actually suspicious? This. "Stop talking about me, get to the lurkers!" Obviously these people are lurking, there's nothing I can do about that other than asking for the prod. So, are you worried about answering more questions? You didn't answer my previous one, do you feel the need to act town?

That is a fine theory indeed, but it you should look around before you hop on the bandwagon. If we compare me,Xny and Nabic to the rest of the players, somethind stands out. Namely how active we are, we are trying to find the scum before the day ends. The rest however is staying low, waiting till the townies fight it out and hang themselves. Doesn't that strike suspicion?

And then there's this as well. It's nearly the same thing, "I can't be scum, there are lurkers!" Are you going to redirect everything against you towards the lurking players? It also makes it sound like you being more active than other players automatically makes you town. I do suggest you take some more time to read through things before jumping to your crazy conclusions and questions, to prevent another 'huge misunderstanding'.

But then we have you, you stayed semi-lurking till now. You came here, cast a vote and created a good theory hoping it would support that vote. It is a good theory if it weren't for these lurkers.

But then we have you, staying active, with wild theories but not voting for anything you say you find suspicious.

Okay, I've come to a little bit of a conclusion. My scumhunting skills are almost certainly below everyone else's here, seeing as last time I played I was scum, but I'm thinking that maybe, just maybe, Mr. Zero and xny are scumbuddies. I emphasize the maybe. They seem a bit too eager to go at each others throats, and I get the impression that they're trying to cast suspicion off of themselves by constantly bombarding each other with questions and responses. I know I should probably grow a spine and be a bit more binary in my answers, but its a bit harder when you're used to actually knowing from the start who was town and who was your scumbuddy.

So, that's a vote for Mr. Zero.

You say it's a weak theory, but you're not even trying to strengthen it? Are you going to base yourself off this theory for the rest of the game?

[ShoesandHats]

stuff

So you're suspecting me because I'm voting off of my own opinions rather than voting randomly. Makes sense.

Look, as much as lurkers and the such are suspicious, I'd rather base my vote off of evidence, even if it's not great. The reason I call the theory weak is that it is. On day 2, I'll hopefully have a better idea of what's going on. If there comes more suspicious activity from someone else, then I'll suspect them.

Mr. Zero
You yourself called it a good theory. Why did you call attention to the lurkers? You've provided no evidence to the contrary of my opinion.

[Nerjin]

Just some more thoughts on Mr. Zero.

Post #89 page 6: Extends while saying he has little to go on, however in post #83 he seems to believe he has a bit to go on. I'd like to add to Mr. Zero that no one is sure who is scum. Who do you think is most likely scum? Why aren't you voting them when the day is so close to over? Do you feel that by not voting you seem less suspicious?

Post #90 Page 7: States that he doesn’t know enough about us but then states that Kingfisher1112 always seems to put himself up on the chopping block. He accuses xny of being lazy. [His quotes are awful. I can’t ever tell who they’re from.]  Once again he asks someone why they are asking questions and states that it’s against the very foundation of the game.

Post #91 Page 7: No-lynch is bad, yet he refrains from voting for his top scum-pick. Seriously, who are you most suspicious of?

Post #105 Page 8: When the heat is on he jumps onto the lurkers but doesn't mention any. He simply states they exist. He then proceeds to guard against criticism in the vein of “I’m not scum. No really guys...” And then does not mention anyone who would be more likely scum except for, again, lurkers in general.

[xny]

stuff

So you're suspecting me because I'm voting off of my own opinions rather than voting randomly. Makes sense.

Look, as much as lurkers and the such are suspicious, I'd rather base my vote off of evidence, even if it's not great. The reason I call the theory weak is that it is. On day 2, I'll hopefully have a better idea of what's going on. If there comes more suspicious activity from someone else, then I'll suspect them.

Mr. Zero
You yourself called it a good theory. Why did you call attention to the lurkers? You've provided no evidence to the contrary of my opinion.

The info on day 2? Why don't you focus on day 1 first? You're currently voting based off an incredibly wild speculation and you are not doing anything to try to confirm it. You'll suspect someone who's suspicious, but you won't get them to act that way.

[Jim Groovester]

I know I'm going to sound immensely hypocritical for saying this, but activity is important. Do your best to be active; low activity kills games. If you can manage as many posts as possible, please do so.

It is widely known that Jim besides being a massive scumbag

Same to you, pal.

@Shakerag oh jeez, that's a hard one. Uff it's random but i would most probably choose Jim. Cause in the past BM's that I've red, i have noticed that he likes to bully newbies. With that gone he would be less of a threat to town or scum depending on his alignment.

Psssh, bully newbies.

The nerve.

It's a thankless task, I tell ya, teaching all these new kids how to play mafia. Got nothin' betwixt their ears save all the wrong ideas. Only thing to do is beat it out of them.

linkless quotes

Do everyone a favor and directly quote the post you're quoting using the quote button, and trimming down the post from there to the relevant questions or issues you want to address. This improves readability several fold, as having a direct link to the post in question is useful for the purposes of context.

Xny You make very poor attempts at creating good questions, are you even trying to scum hunt?

What's wrong with the questions?

I see from your post here that your issue is that he asked followup questions based on the responses of questions other people asked.

This isn't bad practice. It's actually fairly good. Pursuing your own lines of inquiry is the essence of the scumhunt. And doing it not to make a show of it, but to actually find scum, is how town wins games. (Depending, of course, on how well they do it.)

No, a FOS is not stronger than a vote. It was just a little pressure.

But a vote would've been more pressure.

I'm going to make a generalized statement that I don't necessarily agree with, but more pressure = better, so why not be more forceful in your information gathering?

Also, if you hate lurkers so much, why not vote one? You could vote one for pressure, even.

Arithmetic is for computers.

Fine, I'll ask you for a proof next time.  Also, hypothetically, if you were an IC in a beginner's game and a cop, how would you go about picking your inspect targets? 

Hypotheticals, now you're talking my language. I'm all about hypotheses.

I would follow any gut feelings I had. Evidently, last game my gut feelings that Nerjin and Kamin were scum turned out to be pretty good. Other games, not so much. Regardless, I think I'm somewhat competent at determining whether a new player's genuinely interested in trying to find scum regardless of ability just by the way they post, so this leaves players who are floundering because of their alignment or floundering due to disinterest, and I would feel fantastic having an inspect that determined which was which. This, of course, leaves players who are good at faking the hunt uninspected, but no cop strategy is perfect besides 'Inspect the Scum.'

The standard answer for BMs is to answer this question with 'the ICs,' but that's a meta play and I dislike it for that reason.

Okay, I've come to a little bit of a conclusion. My scumhunting skills are almost certainly below everyone else's here, seeing as last time I played I was scum, but I'm thinking that maybe, just maybe, Mr. Zero and xny are scumbuddies. I emphasize the maybe. They seem a bit too eager to go at each others throats, and I get the impression that they're trying to cast suspicion off of themselves by constantly bombarding each other with questions and responses. I know I should probably grow a spine and be a bit more binary in my answers, but its a bit harder when you're used to actually knowing from the start who was town and who was your scumbuddy.

Then I recommend you grow a spine and be a bit more binary then.

In any case, as one of your Inexperienced Challenged players, scum, especially new scum, have a very difficult time interacting with their scumbuddies in ways that don't look odd or unnatural or forced, so much so that they typically avoid interacting with each other altogether. Are you suggesting that the interactions between xny and Mr. Zero have so far been as I have described?

Captain Ford, you've been voting Nerjin since your first post this game. Why?

What's the issue with that?

As for Nerjin, hmm... you're off the hook ... for now. Unvote

What for?

[zombie urist]

nevermind.

[Nabic]

How did we extend day further?

Captain Ford, you've been voting Nerjin since your first post this game. Why?

What's the issue with that?

It seemed odd to me that he was voting Nerjin, but focusing on questioning Kingfisher1112. Is it normal mafia protocol to leave your vote on someone while you hunt others?

Also, Jim Groovester, earlier you stated that checking ICs as cop is:

a meta play and I dislike it for that reason.

But later in your post you said:

scum, especially new scum, have a very difficult time interacting with their scumbuddies in ways that don't look odd or unnatural or forced, so much so that they typically avoid interacting with each other altogether.

Don't you think determining new scum by these traits is meta play?

You're the only one so far who's given me a weird feeling, and I think that's why. What say you, ShoesandHats?

Captain Ford, How much do weird feelings play into your scumhunting methods?

[zombie urist]

Current vote count:

Nerjin:
ShoesandHats:	Captain Ford
Kingfisher1112:
Captain Ford:	Nabic
Mr.Zero:	xny	Nerjin	ShoesandHats
Nabic:	Jim Groovester
xny:
Jim Groovester:
Shakerag:

Not voting: Kingfisher1112, Mr.Zero, Shakerag

Extension requests: 0
Shorten requests: 0

4 votes needed to extend the day
5 votes needed to shorten the day

Day 1 will end Friday, October 19th at ~9:00 P.M. PST.
Experimental table based votecount.

How did we extend day further?

I extended because I totally forgot about this.
Its actually not extended.

[zombie urist]

Wait fuck today's Friday.

Day ends today at 9 PM PST in about 20 hours.

[Nerjin]

@Jim Groovester: You seem to think that Mr. Zero is messing up rather badly. Do you think he's scum or just messing up as town?

[Jim Groovester]

It seemed odd to me that he was voting Nerjin, but focusing on questioning Kingfisher1112. Is it normal mafia protocol to leave your vote on someone while you hunt others?

Players can pursue several lines of inquiry simultaneously. That's not uncommon. It's also not uncommon for players to hold their vote while they make up their mind about their suspects.

Don't you think determining new scum by these traits is meta play?

What's the import one way or the other?

I would classify it as a scumtell. I've seen it enough times and done it myself enough times to know that it's generalized scum behavior. (That doesn't mean it's 100% reliable. No scumtell ever is.)

@Jim Groovester: You seem to think that Mr. Zero is messing up rather badly. Do you think he's scum or just messing up as town?

I didn't say that. I had points of criticism. This does not mean he's messing up.

My read on him is neutral, save for all his talk about lurkers with no commitment towards them. Or towards anybody. He hasn't voted anybody yet. It's too cautious for my tastes.

[Nabic]

Can we extend again?

Shakerag, you've not posted in over 24 hours. Do you think ICs should be posting often to help and advise new players?

Mr.Zero, you've still not voted anyone, ignoring RVS. Although you purportedly made a mistake about xny, couldn't you find something suspicious others' posts?
You also promised:

Questions will come soon, as i have to leave soon.

It's been almost 24 hours. Your Failure to Deliver is very scummy. Who do you find most suspicious, and why?

[zombie urist]

Beginner's mafia have infinite extends.

1 request to extend.
0 requests to shorten.

Day ends in ~9 hours.