Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[TolyK]

Answering questions:

TolyK, using your powers of prognostication, who is going to be lynched on Day 1 and for what reason?

I don't have those powers (sadly ) so I think it's going to be either the typical lynching of some random person who said something wrong and got mobrushed (usually a relatively inexperienced player) or one of the people-who-people-want-to-lynch-just-because-they're-Dariush. I seriously doubt that we'll hit scum D1, though.
Pengo, Tiruin, Shake, Me, Dariush? (I don't know most of these people, I'm just taking a guess. But that's what you asked me to do )

TolyK: say you were town and had a one shot daykill, but you were about to be lynched and had no certainty of who's scum, would you rather die without using it or use it without certainty? why?

First of all, I'd try to claim my role. If that didn't change anything, I'd probably shoot either the person I thought was scum or the second-most-voted person (so that if they're town as well folks don't waste another day, and if they're scum then they die ).

TolyK. IronyOwl.
Where are you.

I'm here now... mostly. Need to finish something and will ask questions in a bit (I hope...)

[Think0028]

Deathsword: The easiest way to be lynched as a Jester is to fail to answer questions. Hands down no two ways about it. There are obviously other tricks involved as well, but that's the main one.

Book: Not the most informative answer, but a fair one nonetheless. Unvote.

Jim: I am hunting scum, even if you may not think so. How would you end RVS on the second post of a game, assuming the first wasn't someone confessing 'LOOK AT ME I'M SCUM'?

Toaster: Fair enough. I voted Book because 'what power are you afraid of' is both less likely to get an answer and more likely to get a usable answer under pressure than the four one-shots question. Also, see next point.

Tiruin, Toaster: Why are the two of you so quick to leap to my defense? I'm awfully curious why the two of you felt that RVS questions to me were something worth answering on my behalf.

[Urist Imiknorris]

Mod: Look at the post right above the votecount.

[Tiruin]

PFP

Think0028

Tiruin, Toaster: Why are the two of you so quick to leap to my defense? I'm awfully curious why the two of you felt that RVS questions to me were something worth answering on my behalf.

What defense? What are you talking abou-

. . .

...You mean this?

Deathsword: What kind of answer are you expecting from a question like

Think: If you were a jester, how would you get yourself lynched?

And how would it help in finding scum?

...I can 'answer' with questions now?

Also, defending you? What ever gave you that idea? How, and why did you come up with that?


ToylK

Answering questions:

TolyK, using your powers of prognostication, who is going to be lynched on Day 1 and for what reason?

I don't have those powers (sadly ) so I think it's going to be either the typical lynching of some random person who said something wrong and got mobrushed (usually a relatively inexperienced player) or one of the people-who-people-want-to-lynch-just-because-they're-Dariush. I seriously doubt that we'll hit scum D1, though.
Pengo, Tiruin, Shake, Me, Dariush? (I don't know most of these people, I'm just taking a guess. But that's what you asked me to do )

But you do have a vote. Which you aren't using at this current time.

So based on the 1st bolded statement, you somehow think it's going to be based on a mistake other than a scummy action -- based on how you worded that. On the 2nd, why so?

And another note: Why those certain people for your 'guess' [yes, I'm asking you reasons for every specific person mentioned], and why include yourself among them?

[zombie urist]

ZU: Yes, you said you learned something about me and Jim by our responses. What did you learn? Spell it out.

Well Jim is not playing as straight as he would in a 'regular' game and based on your response I can better judge your alignment from your behaviors.

Wut.
So you only get serious when you're being called out on it? No reason to continue RVS? You only scumhunt now?!
Look. The RVS is a term pertaining to the vote. Questions asked there are most of the foundation of a conversation. Your scumhunting starts there. Random Vote Stage. You voted Jim for the sake of going into RVS? And you had a hell lot of posts to ensure that conversation would commence, but you didn't.
How are you even scumhunting? You leave declarative statements and no way for your target to answer?
How quaint.
How is this strawmanning? Why are you pressing others to 'answer your question' when you can't even answer theirs? Ie, Hapah. Me.
Just stating that 'you've answered questions' in a post, followed by us asking for it means that we aren't satisfied with that answer. Stop. Evading.
Besides, you throw a prod at Shakerag...who hasn't even posted after your question. Tell me, what does Shakerag's Hapah over penngo have to do with your concern?
Panic moar, scum.

I've always been serious. I mostly agree with Dariush's sentiment on RVS in that it's mostly meant to get discussion started. I do believe however that it can help determine alignment. If you still see a reason to RVS please say so. Yes I voted Jim for RVS. I didn't what?

I'm leaving accusations and I will base my judgment on how well they respond to them.

Its a strawman because Shakerag is misrepresenting Penngo's argument. Penngo said that he thinks an early massclaim is better than a later one. Shakerag shifted this to mean a D1 or D2 massclaim. More importantly, why are you defending Shakerag?

What, exactly, is wrong with them? I got the general vague version of "they don't provoke deep thoughts" or whatever, but why specifically were/are those bad, not-productive questions? What makes them worse than other peoples' bad questions, or lack of questions at all?

His question to me was bad because he forced me to base my decision without any information about roles or alignments. His question to Dariush is pretty much just a paraphrase of the "who are you scumbuddies" question, which everyone will just say something like "I don't have scumbuddies". His other questions are ok.

And you've asked zero of those yourself. Why not?

Well I thought my RVS questions were good. I'm no longer asking RVS questions because RVS is over.

[Teneb]

UI:

Deathsword: For someone who claims not to have any real scumpicks, you sure don't seem to be interested in finding any.

I am terribly sorry that the way I like to scumhunt doesn't fit into your standards of scumhunting. I like to be sure about something before I do it, no matter what it is.

Tiruin: As you may have seen in other games, my posts tend to be small and actual WoTs are very rare. I could make that post much larger, but in the end I'd be saying the same thing.

Shake's questions to Dariush were designed to make him look guilty when he answered, so, yeah, that's somewhat scummy. ZU's questions won't do much when it comes to scumhunting, but I don't see anything scummy to them either.

And as to why I am not voting: I am not sure, thus I won't do it until I am. Look at the answer to UI.

DS

Deathsword: if you suspected the most voted player to be a jester, would you try to dissuade others from voting him? how?

Book: I would state my suspicion that the player was a jester, and try to point out evidence for that, such as not really trying to defend themselves.

So how would you discern a jester from a flailing newbie, or flailing scum. Or just someone who is confused on defending himself?

How do you diffrentiate a jester from someone who is panicking?

Panicking scum would be desperately trying to look like town, while differentiating a jester from a panicked newbie can be achieved by questioning.

Shake: Why were you asking questions such as those? What did you hope to achieve other than Dariush simply disregarding them?

[Shakerag]

zombie urist@115: Because random chance. 
@154: You seem to not understand the finer art of RVS questions.  The answers are often going to be stock, boring, and predictable.  But interpreting how the person answered is where you want to start digging.  Hence why sometimes you get RVS questions that seem inexplicably strange.  There's more to it than that, but if I tell you all of my ideas/strategies/theories about RVS questioning, then they won't be potentially effective anymore.


penngo09@117: What do you think the 'V' in RVS stands for? 


Hapah@118: What's Toaster's #1 scumtell?
@121: The answer is/was predictable.  It's how the answer is given is what's important.


Toaster@124: Shakerag's Law - As the length of a mafia game grows, the odds that someone will accuse someone else of rolefishing goes to 1.  If Toaster is in the game, the odds of this happening D1 are greater. 

To answer your question, no, it was not intended to be any sort of rolefishing. 


Dariush:  If you were a woodchuck, what would your favorite color be?


Deathsword@144: If you don't have any real scumpicks, why aren't you doing something about it?  Hmm, someone beat me to the punch on this point, but I want to drive it home anyway.  PROTIP: Waiting for everyone else to ask/answer questions so you can have scumpicks is doing it wrong.
@155: See the top of this post as to why I ask questions such as those. 

[Teneb]

Shakerag: I am acting on it. Unless my questions and answers to Tiruin and my question to you (now answered) are somehow invisible. And why are you voting Hapah's on Toaster's #1, if he delivered the vote he promised at 118 on 121? And since you are not willing to share your strategy behind that question to Dariush, I'll have to assume you asked that burden-of-guilt question to make him overreact and get lynched.

[Shakerag]

Deathsword:  This is terrible, and I feel ashamed that I and the other ICs weren't able to impress certain things on you better in the beginner's games.

I don't see myself that you're acting on it.  You're barely asking any questions.  And your "questions and answers to Tiruin" look like they're worth jack squat.

How exactly do your answers to Tiruin's questions help you find scum?

How exactly has your question (note the singular) to Tiruin helped you find scum?  Were you satisfied with his answer?  If not, where is the follow through?  Where is the pressure you're supposed to be putting on potential scum?  Did you take anything at all with you from the beginner's games?

Again, do you expect everyone else to do the scumhunting for you?  How exactly do you plan to go about finding scum?  Because right now it seems like you're doing a perfectly fine job of active lurking. 

Continuing to other points: Hapah said he'd vote in his next post.  He didn't.  I'm taking him at face value.

And if you actually read my last post, you'd see that I referred you to the top of said last post, wherein I explained my reasonings for questioning Dariush.  Go ahead and re-read it now, I'll wait. 

Done?  Good. 

Now, if you actually processed what was written there, you would see my reasoning is to see how Dariush answered, not what he answered with.  Furthermore, you will see that what I wasn't going to share was RVS strategy in general, which was not related to my specific questioning of Dariush. 

Also, riddle me this:  If you asked an RVS question to someone and they overreacted in thier answer, what would you do?

[Hapah]

PFP

You're splitting hairs, Shake. Yes, I technically didn't post in my next post (which was a PFP calling for Extends and nothing else), but I voted in the first real post I made after.

[Teneb]

Shakerag: Okay, I'll admit: my scumhunting is being almost none so far, and what I did wasn't very good. I'll take what you said into consideration and try to improve for this game.

As to your question at the post's end: I'd ask them why are they panicking, if they are trying to hide something and what it is.


You are, however, voting Hapah because promised to vote in his next post, and voted in the one after that instead. How does that qualify as a Toaster #1? The post between his vote and his vote-promise (120) was a PFP asking for extension. Was he supposed to vote in his PFP, where he wouldn't be able to detail the reasons behind the vote?

PPE: Hapah kind of beat me to it, but it's in the paragraph above anyway.

[Shakerag]

Hapah: Fair enough; you pass.  Unvote.


Which leaves me free to rest a vote on Deathsword until I see some scumhunting out of him. 

Deathsword: Okay, but do you think you'd get good answers from those questions?  If the player said "No, I'm not hiding anything" what do you do from there?

Again, I said I was taking Hapah at face value and expecting a vote in his very next post.  I was obviously voilating the spirit of Toaster's #1 Scumtell™, but I wanted to see how Hapah would react to that.

[Teneb]

Shakerag:

Deathsword: Okay, but do you think you'd get good answers from those questions?  If the player said "No, I'm not hiding anything" what do you do from there?

I'd then ask why they panicked in the first place. If they are hiding nothing, then they don't need to fear anything. Which means they are lying when they say that they are not hiding anything.

Again, I said I was taking Hapah at face value and expecting a vote in his very next post.  I was obviously voilating the spirit of Toaster's #1 Scumtell™, but I wanted to see how Hapah would react to that.

So you found a bullshit reason to vote Hapah and see if he overreacted? In fact, so far, aside from answering questions and telling me to scumhunt, all you did was ask people stuff to see if they overreact.

[penngo009]

As for why I'm not voting anyone... I guess I just didn't decide to throw around my vote.

Shake, deal with it. The V stands for voting, btw.

As for Irony I was mostly just observing and yes, answering  the questions that were asked.
I also want to hear on more who you think is scum, so don't go up to me about it. I really want you to talk just a bit more.

Shakerag, could you throw anything less at Deathsword?

[zombie urist]

Could you throw anything less at IO?

zombie urist@115: Because random chance. 
@154: You seem to not understand the finer art of RVS questions.  The answers are often going to be stock, boring, and predictable.  But interpreting how the person answered is where you want to start digging.  Hence why sometimes you get RVS questions that seem inexplicably strange.  There's more to it than that, but if I tell you all of my ideas/strategies/theories about RVS questioning, then they won't be potentially effective anymore.

This is BS and you know it.  Since your super secret RVS things are so effective, what have you gathered so far from these our responses. And please answer my accusations in the other post.