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[zombie urist]

More importantly, why are you worried about such a FOS?

[Tiruin]

It's not worry, it's called curiosity.

Person says psychology is in the matter > states two kinds of labor along with an FoS.

Me either wondering whether obvious allusion, or something else entirely. (Though, picking stonecrafter means that I already have a labor that I could earn my keep with, including still branching out from my current profession. Still, carving rock pots or doing marble statues isn't my kind of aesthetics. I'm mostly into graphite or digital art, when speaking about what stonecrafters are thought of doing.)

[notquitethere]

ZU

This is stupid, because since there are more town, everyone is more likely town. I don't see how the distribution of votes matter.

I think it's possible you missed the finer point of my argument. I was saying that Ford is almost certainly not a mason, and so this leaves him as either town or scum, town being the likely option. I won't speculate openly about it, but from the voting patterns I'm pretty sure I've identified at least one mason. I'm positive distribution of votes matter, and from them it's pretty obvious Ford is town. If/when he gets lynched then I'll be proved right or wrong on the matter- I know I could well lynch him with a vote now but I won't because I'm certain you're all about to lynch an innocent man.

How "much" more scummy do you need to be to be worth lynching? Also, please provide a non-statistical reason why Ford is not scummy. Also, please stop using numbers in mafia. It doesn't work well.

I'm positive vote numbers are the way forward, not the stuff people make up in the thread. You can lie more easily in words than in lynch votes. I've yet to hear you give a compelling counterargument to why we should be looking at other things, or for that matter, what is supposedly so scummy about Ford. But you want a non-vote related reason? Well, he was vociferous in calling out Deathsword on his shenanigans in the early game. Letting misunderstanding flourish among town is presumably a scum-trait, and he did the exact opposite, seeking to bring clarity to the debate.

Hapah, glad to have you as a replacement. Ignore my vote against your predecessor Phantom, it no longer applies now the position is held by an active player. Do you think Phantom's vote against Edosurist was well placed?

TheZoomZoll, welcome to the game! Do you think Edosurist's previous votes were all well-placed? i.e. do you find Phantom (now Hapah) and myself to be more suspicious than average?

[Hapah]

PFP

NQT: I'll have to see. I haven't been following this game very closely, which means I've got a lot of reading and note-taking to do!

[zombie urist]

Ok so I misunderstood the previous post.

However, I find it interesting that you say "vote numbers are the way forward", but your reasons for voting DS are totally non-vote-related.

[notquitethere]

ZU, I'm voting DS for bandwagonning twice, how much more vote related could you get? (I can understand how it might have been unclear, so you can treat that as rhetorical question if you like.)

[Teneb]

NQT:

ZU, I'm voting DS for bandwagonning twice, how much more vote related could you get? (I can understand how it might have been unclear, so you can treat that as rhetorical question if you like.)

Tell me, how is placing the first vote on a person (ford in this case) bandwaggoning?

ZU

This is stupid, because since there are more town, everyone is more likely town. I don't see how the distribution of votes matter.

I think it's possible you missed the finer point of my argument. I was saying that Ford is almost certainly not a mason, and so this leaves him as either town or scum, town being the likely option. I won't speculate openly about it, but from the voting patterns I'm pretty sure I've identified at least one mason. I'm positive distribution of votes matter, and from them it's pretty obvious Ford is town. If/when he gets lynched then I'll be proved right or wrong on the matter- I know I could well lynch him with a vote now but I won't because I'm certain you're all about to lynch an innocent man.

For the entirety of this game you keep insisting Ford is town. How can you know? And don't bring "oh it's because I played with him before and meta" because that can be faked.

And my vote on you back in the start was because you were buddying up to me. Not with that sarcastic quip you made to Tiruin (and that everyone thinks I was talking about), but the softball question you threw at me, the same question that cause Tiruin to call you on buddying and you to answer with sarcasm. I accused you of buddying, to which you flipped out. I found that to be scummy, so I kept my vote on you and kept pressing. I actually scumhunted on you. Is that bandwaggoning? No, it's not. I was driving a lynch on you because I thought, and now I think again, that you are scum.

Not only that but you and Ford keep defending each other. That is how he caught my attention in the first place.


Ford:

Toaster:

Concerning metagaming:  I'm not afraid to look for a way to break the game (See: Politibastard) but the chance to look at the game this way hasn't ever come up before.  I'm not going to pass up this opportunity when it comes up, but I'm also not going to advocate any form of chain lynching over it.  That said, the congruence of the Captain Ford factors is not something I can overlook.

That's retarded. Either it's valid or it's not. Using it against me only is complete bullshit. If it's valid against me, then it's valid against everyone, especially after I flip town and the statements I made about it are proven reliable.

The part I highlighted is a scummy move. Repeatedly claiming you are going to flip town and passively-agressively saying that people will regret lynching you is done only by scum and newbies, and I don't consider you to be a newbie.

This is off-topic, but try to avoid calling people retards. Especially more than once and in multiple posts. Let's keep this mostly friendly, or at least keep insults to a minimum when not raging.

[notquitethere]

*rereads thread posts*

Okay, you're right DS. You weren't bandwaggoning in the Ford case. My suspicion bar for you just dropped five points. At the start I was pretty sure he wasn't scum because the reasons people had called him didn't hold up. Now I think he's most likely town because so many more people have voted for him (ruling him out as a likely mason) and as (in my eyes) he's either scum or town and he isn't coming across as particularly scummy, I think he's most likely town. But we will soon see.

My face when I'm wrong:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[Hapah]

I'm in the middle of my read (P15 whoo).

NQT: In post 220 you asked PotL's replacement (me) to answer a question on P13. Can you post the question, or even just the post #, if it's still relevant? I've got enough reading to do as-is, lol.

[notquitethere]

The question was:

Phantom
We haven't heard from you since Norris' death. What are you thinking? I know the game can be pretty fast paced at times but lurking or appearing to lurk doesn't do you any favours.

Given that you're reading the thread I think we can all expect some general thoughts from you when you're done. 

[Hapah]

True enough!

And if one of you guys could be kind enough to remove your Ford vote until I've had a chance to post, I'd appreciate it. I'd like to weigh in on the subject and L-1 makes me nervous as shit.

[Hapah]

Read complete! I'll see if I can type up a coherent post now. Apologies in advance if it turns out a bit long, but I've got a lot of ground to cover, don't I?

[Captain Ford]

Ford:

Toaster:

Concerning metagaming:  I'm not afraid to look for a way to break the game (See: Politibastard) but the chance to look at the game this way hasn't ever come up before.  I'm not going to pass up this opportunity when it comes up, but I'm also not going to advocate any form of chain lynching over it.  That said, the congruence of the Captain Ford factors is not something I can overlook.

That's retarded. Either it's valid or it's not. Using it against me only is complete bullshit. If it's valid against me, then it's valid against everyone, especially after I flip town and the statements I made about it are proven reliable.

The part I highlighted is a scummy move. Repeatedly claiming you are going to flip town and passively-agressively saying that people will regret lynching you is done only by scum and newbies, and I don't consider you to be a newbie.

Ha ha ha! That's funny because I never said that. In fact, I was arguing the opposite, that lynching me would have positive side-effects that Toaster was simply going to ignore.

At this point, I don't really think that anything is going to stop me from being lynched. I just want to make sure that my lynch is as productive as possible.

This is off-topic, but try to avoid calling people retards. Especially more than once and in multiple posts. Let's keep this mostly friendly, or at least keep insults to a minimum when not raging.

Point taken. I will try to tone it down.

For the record though, I never called Toaster retarted, only his argument. I also said, "you're retarted, if", which was meant to imply that the condition was false, because he's not retarted.

[Hapah]

Leafsnail: There's a question for you right under the first quote.

So much to cover...guess we'll start with the big ones!

Spoiler: About Captain Ford (click to show/hide)

I've seen a lot of speculating and metagaming about Ford tying up the lynch, and why would scum break the tie in Ford's favor, etc. etc. And that's all great, don't get me wrong, no problem in thinking things through (as you guys have been for most of D2). But the thing that immediately jumps out at me is what hasn't happened, and I don't think anyone has addressed that yet.

Put yourself in Ford's shoes here. D2 opens up, you tied up the vote D1 (intentional or otherwise) and the scum let you live. People are out for your blood right out of the gate (Ford got 3 votes in something like the first 12 hours, Toaster/Tir/Dar). You try to defend yourself, but the mob is louder, and you progress to L-2, and finally L-1. If you are L-1, scum, and the clear lynch candidate, what would you do? Think about it before you read the next line.

I might be the most cautious person in this game, and I would pull the trigger on my daykill and take my chances. That hasn't happened. He's either not scum or he has a pair that goes "clank" when he walks. I think it's a very persuasive piece of information, but I'd like some more opinions on the matter, and I would really really like it if someone that's voting Ford would back off their lynch for a minute while people chew on this idea.

Toaster

Concerning metagaming:  I'm not afraid to look for a way to break the game (See: Politibastard) but the chance to look at the game this way hasn't ever come up before.  I'm not going to pass up this opportunity when it comes up, but I'm also not going to advocate any form of chain lynching over it. -snip-

It doesn't look like you're looking too hard, from where I'm standing.

Leafsnail: Would you accept a tiebreaker vote from a different forum account, provided they could prove that they were on the scum team?

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Leaf suggested this course of action to the scum (assuming he allows it, that is). He's no slouch.

Not only did Ford make the tie, but he did it 30 minutes prior to the deadline.  If that's not a scum move, I don't know what is.  Minor FoS goes out to Zombie Urist for not breaking it.

Even if he did tie up the vote on purpose (which is open to debate, considering the slack deadline with resulting rewind), what's wrong with that? If it had been someone else tying the vote I could see where you are coming from, but someone casting a vote so that they maybe don't die doesn't seem like a bad thing.

Also, any reason you didn't pull your vote?

NQT: I noted this on my readthrough. Lurkers prevent hammers, but they don't prevent lynches. There's a very large difference between the two. Long days have their pros and cons, though, I'll give you that much.

DS: Do you still hold that Ford must be scum? I for one think that he's one of the flavors of town, and that lynching Tolyk over Ford was a great move: look at how much attention he got at the start of D2. The resulting shitstorm seems to have taken up most of the day.

Zoom: Welcome! Mind explaining what you hope to gain from those questions? Also, have you played a game of forum Mafia before?

Dar:

But as long as the metainfo is in play, zombie urist was the closest to the lynch, and he's the only one who wasn't posting anywhere else.

The closest to the lynch how? By having zero votes, which is certainly more than your three, Ford?

He meant closest post, I believe. Why didn't you see that?

The main reasons for this vote is that if Ford wasn't scum, scum would have basically zero reason to lynch Tolyk, since he could easily be lynched at any point due to his lurkatron. And that's in addition to all the other scummy shit he pulled off earlier.

Do you stand by this?

I have to step away for a minute, so I guess I'll just go ahead and post this.

Everybody Else: Weigh in. What's on your mind?

[zombie urist]

ehh. I don't think Ford is scum. Though I think LS allowing a different account submission is kindof wonky, though not impossible.

PS: All the cool mafia players use the 50 post/page setting.