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help i'm trapped in a poll i don't know why i'm here i'm so scared someone please help

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Total Members Voted: 50

[GreatWyrmGold]

1. Has that ever been an issue before? And before you answer, consider that the objections have been long-term--e.g, "This lowers our MHP too much to be worth it," and also consider that we will once more have access to healing magic.
2. We carry the people.
3. Oh come on. We've made laser knives before, a simple jetpack is positively simple in comparison.

1. No, but it might be. And we shouldn't assume we'll have access to healing magic immediately upon descending, though it is possible.
2. Are we strong enough to do so?
3. Those were all weapons and basic tools. We've never bloodshaped advanced tools. before.

1a. Why assume that we will? And how many times have we confronted a threat we couldn't just run away from, anyways?
1b. Um...yes, we will. We have a secret weapon. *pats Cherish on the head*
2. We don't need to be--the jetpack (or whatever) is doing the lifting.
3. You were complaining about complexity, not variety. And as far as that goes...we bloodshaped a headband, we're obviously not restricted to arms and armor.

None of which are at all promising.

How so?

I've been explaining for pages why it wouldn't work.

You assume in both cases. What if other Siblings can't be switched to, or if wherever Rilitia is she can't be switched to, or if whatever took her separated her from our Astral Influx list, or if we lost contact with the AI switching list after dunking in the water (that time everyone forgot about us and wandered off), or something like that?

Then we don't really lose anything for trying, unless we wait until we're in danger or something, which wasn't what I was suggesting.

True. But if it doesn't work, we need to decide what to do instead; we can't rely on the "Switch to Rilitia" plan.
Although I fear that by saying so, we'll switch to Rilitia and discover that we did lose something. I'm not sure what to expect; maybe Rilitia would control Ciro's body, or we will be chained to a wall and unable to switch back, or something.

I can't help but notice that no one has.

That doesn't mean nobody will, especially if we spend a bit of time trying out other tactics before descending.

To try other tactics, we have to get new places. To get new places, we have to go through the dragon, walls, or other impassable barriers. And moreover, we would have even more tactics to try on the new level.
And I refuse to agree to anything that hasn't been suggested yet.

...
We haven't seen CC in ages, man. He's not likely to be here. Ask Cherish about Cool Crab if you must know. He was last seen with her and Proxxy.
...I wonder if they just got a hankering for seafood.

Cool Crab is on this floor, almost certainly. When asked, Cherish said he wandered off near the stairs. I doubt he would leave the floor. Remember, much of the floor is still unexplored.

And which way and how far did he go?
And why the heck is Cool Crab so important that you'd risk Al for him? Forget for a moment that Al is a terrible terrible person.

!!! The Lord is the title the Angel's have used for their leader thingy. The guy from the old flash game has been mentioned many times as an angel in training. And from what he saw he was being trained by Betweenford! Clearly he's been given an assignment.

EDIT: Also Spira said she was holding onto the Rainbow Key for said Angel in training.

Hm. Yeah, this theory is pretty inescapable.

[Elephant Parade]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

1a. Why assume that we will? And how many times have we confronted a threat we couldn't just run away from, anyways?
1b. Um...yes, we will. We have a secret weapon. *pats Cherish on the head*
2. We don't need to be--the jetpack (or whatever) is doing the lifting.
3. You were complaining about complexity, not variety. And as far as that goes...we bloodshaped a headband, we're obviously not restricted to arms and armor.

1a. Well, running past a threat might result in damage, and we would be further damaged if we tried to get back to the drop.
1b. Cherish needs SP. We may need more healing than Cherish has SP before we can find a way to restore SP.
2. Assuming we can make a jetpack.
3. The headband is much simpler than a jetpack. Much, much simpler.

I've been explaining for pages why it wouldn't work.

And I've been explaining for pages how we do have options. We just disagree on this.

To try other tactics, we have to get new places. To get new places, we have to go through the dragon, walls, or other impassable barriers. And moreover, we would have even more tactics to try on the new level.
And I refuse to agree to anything that hasn't been suggested yet.

1. Not necessarily. And if we run past the dragon, we can find new places. It's possible that Cain might be able to help us out, or that defeating him might cause Oric to disable the barrier, allowing us to use magic.
3. Fair enough, I suppose. But somebody might suggest something, and I think we shouldn't dive headfirst into more danger.

And which way and how far did he go?
And why the heck is Cool Crab so important that you'd risk Al for him? Forget for a moment that Al is a terrible terrible person.

1. Not so far that we won't be able to find him.
2. Because he's cool, and then we'll have half of what we need for the Dark Cathedral, which is something we should try out.

But before we try anything, we should really check the Spirit Format thing to see if it can help us with the dragon somehow. Probably not, but we might as well check.

Edit: Let's put these in spoilers from now on.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[spoiler]

1a. Why assume that we will? And how many times have we confronted a threat we couldn't just run away from, anyways?
1b. Um...yes, we will. We have a secret weapon. *pats Cherish on the head*
2. We don't need to be--the jetpack (or whatever) is doing the lifting.
3. You were complaining about complexity, not variety. And as far as that goes...we bloodshaped a headband, we're obviously not restricted to arms and armor.

1a. Well, running past a threat might result in damage, and we would be further damaged if we tried to get back to the drop.
1b. Cherish needs SP. We may need more healing than Cherish has SP before we can find a way to restore SP.
2. Assuming we can make a jetpack.
3. The headband is much simpler than a jetpack. Much, much simpler.

1a. Who said we would be running past, and how would running backwards lead to further damage?
1b. Fair...I doubt it, though. It hasn't been the pattern.
2. You haven't come up with a good reason why we couldn't.
3. So, you're claiming that we are limited to ultra-simple non-weapons, but can make weapons as complex as we like? I guess it's time for me to design a combination rocket launcher/jetpack, then.

I've been explaining for pages why it wouldn't work.

And I've been explaining for pages how we do have options. We just disagree on this.

Well, do you want me to copy-paste all of my arguments into my response to this point of yours or what?

To try other tactics, we have to get new places. To get new places, we have to go through the dragon, walls, or other impassable barriers. And moreover, we would have even more tactics to try on the new level.
And I refuse to agree to anything that hasn't been suggested yet.

1. Not necessarily. And if we run past the dragon, we can find new places. It's possible that Cain might be able to help us out, or that defeating him might cause Oric to disable the barrier, allowing us to use magic.
3. Fair enough, I suppose. But somebody might suggest something, and I think we shouldn't dive headfirst into more danger.

1. Didn't you just say that running past enemies was a bad idea?
2. What happened to 2? You hurt its feelings.
3. Yet you want to confront the laser jetpack stone dragon.

And which way and how far did he go?
And why the heck is Cool Crab so important that you'd risk Al for him? Forget for a moment that Al is a terrible terrible person.

1. Not so far that we won't be able to find him.
2. Because he's cool, and then we'll have half of what we need for the Dark Cathedral, which is something we should try out.

1. And how are you certain of this?
2. I don't remember that, nor do I think that we should worry about the Dark Cathedral until we have an idea how to get both halves of what we need.

But before we try anything, we should really check the Spirit Format thing to see if it can help us with the dragon somehow. Probably not, but we might as well check.

Eh. I suppose it couldn't hurt. Except by consuming an update.

Edit: Let's put these in spoilers from now on.

Not a terrible idea.

[Elephant Parade]

First things first.
FFS, could we have a super-mini update where we ask the angel how ascending through the Drop works? Because if so, this debate will pretty much be made redundant by new information if we scope out the fourth floor.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Since the other two options were two-way, and for all we know the Drop might magically make us fly up or block us from ascending or something, we should probably ask the angel if we can go up and down freely. If we can use it to move between the floors freely, then I'm all for scoping out the fourth floor before we do anything else. We should also see if the Drop is outside the range of the antimagic field, since it's off the map.

1a. Who said we would be running past, and how would running backwards lead to further damage?
1b. Fair...I doubt it, though. It hasn't been the pattern.
2. You haven't come up with a good reason why we couldn't.
3. So, you're claiming that we are limited to ultra-simple non-weapons, but can make weapons as complex as we like? I guess it's time for me to design a combination rocket launcher/jetpack, then.

1a. Well, if there are monsters in the first room, and they're too strong for us to handle (which is quite possible, since they're a floor down) then we probably won't be fighting them. And if we try to get back to the Drop to go back up, we'll have to pass them.
1b. Meh. I'm not saying there's no way to restore SP on the floor, but if we get into trouble fast, then that might cause trouble. There's probably an SP fountain somewhere, though. So yeah, this isn't the worst of our worries, but still something to keep in mind.
2. Well, it's a complex object. However, looking back, we might be able to make it. We should check if the Drop is under the influence of the field, then try to make it up here to be on the safe side. It'll probably just require a high roll, which shouldn't be an issue with our +5 Blood. If we make it, and there aren't any surprise difficulties to travel, then again, I fully support checking out the fourth floor.
3. See 2.

Well, do you want me to copy-paste all of my arguments into my response to this point of yours or what?

No, I think we should probably just stop quoting this.

1. Didn't you just say that running past enemies was a bad idea?
2. What happened to 2? You hurt its feelings.
3. Yet you want to confront the laser jetpack stone dragon.

1. Well, yes, but at least we have a vague idea of what the dragon can do. And that's not the only option we have for dealing with the dragon.
2. I'M TOO COOL FOR TWO. It was redundant or something. I forget. I probably figured it would be less confusing than responding to 3 with 2.
3. Again, we have a vague idea of what it can do, and it might not be as dangerous as the enemies on the fourth floor. What if the first thing we run into is the fourth-floor equivalent of the Stone Dragon?

1. And how are you certain of this?
2. I don't remember that, nor do I think that we should worry about the Dark Cathedral until we have an idea how to get both halves of what we need.

1. I'm not. I just think that since Cool Crab was an unimportant character, and Cherish actually told us about it, FFS wouldn't randomly decide he wandered off AGAIN.
2. True. If the revival of Slog worked, then we would have the other half as soon as we found a checkpoint. But yeah, Cool Crab isn't the best reason to stick around, though finding him would certainly be a nice bonus.

[Toaster]

Buying magic juice is out, since Oric absconded.  We could always see if he left any wares unattended, though.

[GreatWyrmGold]

First things first.
FFS, could we have a super-mini update where we ask the angel how ascending through the Drop works? Because if so, this debate will pretty much be made redundant by new information if we scope out the fourth floor.

...
IFF this is an option, +1. While I hope it is, I doubt it. A lot. freeform is stingy with explaining how things work until it's too late.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

1a. Who said we would be running past, and how would running backwards lead to further damage?
1b. Fair...I doubt it, though. It hasn't been the pattern.
2. You haven't come up with a good reason why we couldn't.
3. So, you're claiming that we are limited to ultra-simple non-weapons, but can make weapons as complex as we like? I guess it's time for me to design a combination rocket launcher/jetpack, then.

1a. Well, if there are monsters in the first room, and they're too strong for us to handle (which is quite possible, since they're a floor down) then we probably won't be fighting them. And if we try to get back to the Drop to go back up, we'll have to pass them.
1b. Meh. I'm not saying there's no way to restore SP on the floor, but if we get into trouble fast, then that might cause trouble. There's probably an SP fountain somewhere, though. So yeah, this isn't the worst of our worries, but still something to keep in mind.
2. Well, it's a complex object. However, looking back, we might be able to make it. We should check if the Drop is under the influence of the field, then try to make it up here to be on the safe side. It'll probably just require a high roll, which shouldn't be an issue with our +5 Blood. If we make it, and there aren't any surprise difficulties to travel, then again, I fully support checking out the fourth floor.
3. See 2.

1a. I highly doubt that we'll be facing more than D4's version of hellyfish. With the four of us, we should be able to take on an underground monkey or whatever the local mook is without any issue. And how would we need to pass them to get back to the Drop if we encounter them upon arrival? Am I missing something, or are you using non-Euclidean geometry?
1b. Also keep in mind our current sizeable SP supply. We have time.

Well, do you want me to copy-paste all of my arguments into my response to this point of yours or what?

No, I think we should probably just stop quoting this.

...Yeah, probably.

1. Didn't you just say that running past enemies was a bad idea?
2. What happened to 2? You hurt its feelings.
3. Yet you want to confront the laser jetpack stone dragon.

1. Well, yes, but at least we have a vague idea of what the dragon can do. And that's not the only option we have for dealing with the dragon.
2. I'M TOO COOL FOR TWO. It was redundant or something. I forget. I probably figured it would be less confusing than responding to 3 with 2.
3. Again, we have a vague idea of what it can do, and it might not be as dangerous as the enemies on the fourth floor. What if the first thing we run into is the fourth-floor equivalent of the Stone Dragon?

1a. Very vague indeed. Your plans seem to rely on its main attack having a major weakness for no reason other than "it looks magicky, and obviously they can't do the stuff we do with our equipment!"
1b. What, tank it until it runs out of SP?
"3". Well, we will just have to not trigger any obvious traps or provoke any minibosses until we find D4's facilities then.

1. And how are you certain of this?
2. I don't remember that, nor do I think that we should worry about the Dark Cathedral until we have an idea how to get both halves of what we need.

1. I'm not. I just think that since Cool Crab was an unimportant character, and Cherish actually told us about it, FFS wouldn't randomly decide he wandered off AGAIN.
2. True. If the revival of Slog worked, then we would have the other half as soon as we found a checkpoint. But yeah, Cool Crab isn't the best reason to stick around, though finding him would certainly be a nice bonus.

1. That's the kind of metagaming freeform loves to punish.
2. Agreed. Iff we decide to stick around D3 for whatever reason, I approve of looking for the crabby guy.

P.S. "Iff" is actually a word. It means "if and only if".

[Elephant Parade]

IFF this is an option, +1. While I hope it is, I doubt it. A lot. freeform is stingy with explaining how things work until it's too late.

Well, we're actually asking a character who will probably answer. Of course, depending on why FFS isn't updating, this might not be possible.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

1a. I highly doubt that we'll be facing more than D4's version of hellyfish. With the four of us, we should be able to take on an underground monkey or whatever the local mook is without any issue. And how would we need to pass them to get back to the Drop if we encounter them upon arrival? Am I missing something, or are you using non-Euclidean geometry?
1b. Also keep in mind our current sizeable SP supply. We have time.

1a. Assuming you mean Stone Dragon, since that's the tough enemy and hellyfishes are mooks. Yeah, we probably could. It just might be difficult, possibly more so than defeating the Stone Dragon.
1b. Meh. You might be right. I still think that going to Dungeon Level Four wouldn't be worth it, simply due to the fact that enemies are probably just as dangerous as the Great Stone Dragon, and there's more of them. As for how we would need to pass them to get back, look at it this way:
  1: We Drop, and end up in the Drop room.
  2: We walk into the room adjacent to the drop, Room A.
  3: We find strong enemies in Room A and immediately run from this room into the next room, Room B.
  4: For whatever reason, we need to get back to The Drop. As a result of this, we go to one of the rooms adjacent to Room A.
  5: We walk through the doorway into Room A. We need to run past the monsters in order to get to The Drop.
Of course, if we've spent a long time on the DL4, we'd probably be able to defeat them easily. But the idea behind my argument as that we ran into trouble and needed to run.

Well, do you want me to copy-paste all of my arguments into my response to this point of yours or what?

...Yeah, probably.

I'm glad we agree on this.

1a. Very vague indeed. Your plans seem to rely on its main attack having a major weakness for no reason other than "it looks magicky, and obviously they can't do the stuff we do with our equipment!"
1b. What, tank it until it runs out of SP?
"3". Well, we will just have to not trigger any obvious traps or provoke any minibosses until we find D4's facilities then.

1a. Well, you have a point. But we know practically nothing about DL4. And it looked kind of like a special attack to me.
1b. Yep. Or use the other strategy somebody suggested, where Al tanks while everyone else shoots. Of course, how do we get it to shoot Al? I'm going to try to think up another plan.
4. Meh. We might find something unavoidable, but you do have a point. I still think we should at least attempt to kill the dragon, though.

1. That's the kind of metagaming freeform loves to punish.
2. Agreed. Iff we decide to stick around D3 for whatever reason, I approve of looking for the crabby guy.

1. I can't remember any examples of this style of metagaming being bad off the top of my head, and it seems like it would make sense even without metagaming. Cool Crab might want to stick around to reunite with Cherish and Proxxy, (probably not, since he wandered off in the first place) he might like it here, or he might dislike DL4 for some reason. If I'm right about it being ice-themed, it might be too cold for him. Or it might be unsuitable for some other reason.

Also, crabs like water. He may have wandered into the water. I wonder why this floor has water and DL2 didn't? Maybe the void-y areas were the DL2 equivalent. Or maybe there was a bunch of water, but we didn't find it; there was that one pond.

[freeformschooler]

First things first.
FFS, could we have a super-mini update where we ask the angel how ascending through the Drop works? Because if so, this debate will pretty much be made redundant by new information if we scope out the fourth floor.

You successfully discern literally zero useful information from anything he/she just said.

[monk12]

Oh hai five pages of suggestions.

Well.

-1 to the Drop for the pure and simple reason that there is still loot on this floor. Loot is power, and gaining loot is the only way to gain power. More importantly, we don't know if we can come back. We haven't been able to travel to a previously explored dungeon floor before, so there is literally zero precedent for backtracking.

However, -1 to engaging the Stone dragon. Quite frankly that plan is kinda dumb, requires the Hellyfish to not join in on killing us, and is more than likely to get people killed. We don't have a lot of health right now to screw around with.

The Stone Lazer Dragon is at (5,1), so exploration into (4,2) is out. That leaves two options for further exploration.

1- Underwater! We could try to steal/shenanigan the rainbow key from Spira to take off after Riltia, or we could head back to (6,3) and go West Underwater, which we haven't seen at all yet.

2- The Warp Room! The Warp presumably costs Soul Charge to activate, and may lead away from this floor entirely, but the advantage it possesses over the Drop is that it is definitely two-way. Even if it just takes us back to D:2, we'll at least be able to heal up and be in top combat shape to take on the Stone Lazer Dragon.


I am in favor of both of these options before any other proposed plan, though if I have to give a tiebreaker, Underwater first.

You successfully discern literally zero useful information from anything he/she just said.

Ha! That's what YOU think! Gimme a minute...

[Elephant Parade]

Oh hey, I forgot the warp room existed. +1 to warp room. Having more options is always good.

Also, I think the watchers competing thing is poking fun at the ongoing debate. The rest of the comment is probably more of the same, though it might have some meaning.

[javierpwn]

Damned Angels man.... Betting on how much time we'll waste falling.

Oric should illegalize gambling......

[GreatWyrmGold]

IFF this is an option, +1. While I hope it is, I doubt it. A lot. freeform is stingy with explaining how things work until it's too late.

Well, we're actually asking a character who will probably answer. Of course, depending on why FFS isn't updating, this might not be possible.

Well, you (:hopefully)) know what I mean.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

1a. I highly doubt that we'll be facing more than D4's version of hellyfish. With the four of us, we should be able to take on an underground monkey or whatever the local mook is without any issue. And how would we need to pass them to get back to the Drop if we encounter them upon arrival? Am I missing something, or are you using non-Euclidean geometry?
1b. Also keep in mind our current sizeable SP supply. We have time.

1a. Assuming you mean Stone Dragon, since that's the tough enemy and hellyfishes are mooks. Yeah, we probably could. It just might be difficult, possibly more so than defeating the Stone Dragon.
1b. Meh. You might be right. I still think that going to Dungeon Level Four wouldn't be worth it, simply due to the fact that enemies are probably just as dangerous as the Great Stone Dragon, and there's more of them. As for how we would need to pass them to get back, look at it this way:
  1: We Drop, and end up in the Drop room.
  2: We walk into the room adjacent to the drop, Room A.
  3: We find strong enemies in Room A and immediately run from this room into the next room, Room B.
  4: For whatever reason, we need to get back to The Drop. As a result of this, we go to one of the rooms adjacent to Room A.
  5: We walk through the doorway into Room A. We need to run past the monsters in order to get to The Drop.
Of course, if we've spent a long time on the DL4, we'd probably be able to defeat them easily. But the idea behind my argument as that we ran into trouble and needed to run.

1a. No, I mean hellyfish, because they are the basic mook and the likeliest thing we would encounter in the entrance room.
1b. Holy carp a lot of subpoints.
1ba. The Stone Dragon was a rare enemy, triggered by activating an obvious trap, and hence doesn't particularly need to be level-appropriate. Besides, it's a unique, once-per-level baddie. I don't feel like making up a power-level-approximation system at this time of night, but let it be noted that we're likely several levels from stone dragons with jetpacks that fire lasers become standard mooks.
1bb. That's not what you described the first time. And yeah...if we run past the monsters rather than away from them, we deserve the rock-and-a-hard-place result.

1a. Very vague indeed. Your plans seem to rely on its main attack having a major weakness for no reason other than "it looks magicky, and obviously they can't do the stuff we do with our equipment!"
1b. What, tank it until it runs out of SP?
"3". Well, we will just have to not trigger any obvious traps or provoke any minibosses until we find D4's facilities then.

1a. Well, you have a point. But we know practically nothing about DL4. And it looked kind of like a special attack to me.
1b. Yep. Or use the other strategy somebody suggested, where Al tanks while everyone else shoots. Of course, how do we get it to shoot Al? I'm going to try to think up another plan.
4. Meh. We might find something unavoidable, but you do have a point. I still think we should at least attempt to kill the dragon, though.

1a. Not all special-looking attacks are special (BEAM KNIFE GO!), and not all special attacks require SP.
1b. The first relies on it A. relying on SP, B. not hurting Al despite whatever DR we set up, and C. being so stupid as to fire at Al repeatedly until it runs out of SP despite not doing significant damage. The second relies on thw dragon being a total dunce or on something we haven't figured out yet. Personally, I don't want to fight a stone jetpack dragon with laser breath until I've finished the planning stage.
4. We already tried, didn't we? Besides, this is TWoOtA, not FF.

1. That's the kind of metagaming freeform loves to punish.
2. Agreed. Iff we decide to stick around D3 for whatever reason, I approve of looking for the crabby guy.

1. I can't remember any examples of this style of metagaming being bad off the top of my head, and it seems like it would make sense even without metagaming. Cool Crab might want to stick around to reunite with Cherish and Proxxy, (probably not, since he wandered off in the first place) he might like it here, or he might dislike DL4 for some reason. If I'm right about it being ice-themed, it might be too cold for him. Or it might be unsuitable for some other reason.
Also, crabs like water. He may have wandered into the water. I wonder why this floor has water and DL2 didn't? Maybe the void-y areas were the DL2 equivalent. Or maybe there was a bunch of water, but we didn't find it; there was that one pond.

New numbers time!
1. I still don't think it's worth sticking around DL3 for, not for that kind of chance.
2. If /cc wanted to stick around Cherish and Proxxy, why did he wander off?
3. He could also have wandered some other direction. Like, up to DL 2. Or to the Underside, or even to DL1.

Multiple ninja. Wow.

Oh hey, I forgot the warp room existed. +1 to warp room. Having more options is always good.

...Oh yeah. +1.

Also, I think the watchers competing thing is poking fun at the ongoing debate. The rest of the comment is probably more of the same, though it might have some meaning.

Duh, duh, and duh.

[Elephant Parade]

(Responses)

Waiting to continue the debate until we go through the portal.

Also, I think the watchers competing thing is poking fun at the ongoing debate. The rest of the comment is probably more of the same, though it might have some meaning.

Duh, duh, and duh.

I was responding to monk12's post.

hellyfish thing

Misread your post. I didn't notice the "more."

Edit:

then why did cc wander off

...I actually said that. In brackets. Right after I said he might want to rejoin, which was really only there for completion.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Also, I think the watchers competing thing is poking fun at the ongoing debate. The rest of the comment is probably more of the same, though it might have some meaning.

Duh, duh, and duh.

I was responding to monk12's post.

So?

then why did cc wander off

...I actually said that. In brackets. Right after I said he might want to rejoin, which was really only there for completion.

...Maybe I should stop trying to debate when I should probably be catching up on sleep.

[RedWarrior0]

I'm gonna say -1 to jumping which is a terrible idea until this level has been looted. We might need to get rid of the stone dragon.

Do we even know that it's still in there? Who knows, the trap might have despawned it.