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[The Soldier]

Here's a few questions for some of you:

Soldier, somebody you have a null read on sarcastically says "Yeah I'm the scum! Lynch my ass!" without a some sort of reason, would you lynch he over that?

Kind of a tough question. If it's obvious sarcasm, probably not. Otherwise, I'd pressure him and lynch him if there isn't anyone scummier than him.

The Soldier: Do you have previous mafia experience?  You seem to be rather on the ball.

I played a tiny bit on other sites. I read a ton of games here, especially BMs, so I could hopefully skip as much of the "WTF am I doing" stage as possible.

Spaghetti: The problem I see with fakeclaiming as town is this: Say you claim cop. The REAL cop then claims. Now there's a problem: you look like major scum, and the real cop is revealed to the scumteam. Or, if the real cop claims later, he'll be grilled as to why he didn't claim earlier when you did.

Somehow I fail to see how this danger disappears if you scum fakeclaim. The real cop can still claim with you, and you still look real scummy. Only issue is, you actually ARE scum.

Shakerag addressed this, but I never said fakeclaiming wasn't a gamble. However, it's got a better payoff for scum than for town. If the fakeclaimer has blended in sufficiently well, the town will be inclined to believe them. This is extra true if a) the real cop has been scummy; or b) there is no real cop to counterclaim.

[Spaghetti7]

Alright, I can see how that could be helpful.
Also, I do now have an important question for Remu: If you were scum and being strongly attacked, would you attack back or stop posting and wait for attention to deflect?

[borno]

Nerjin:

Nerjin:

@borno: I have not seen you in a game before that I recall. Sorry, help me fill in the blanks please. What is your general route to hunting scum.

I played a while ago, but dropped out because of my lack of free time. Now that I have more free time, I can play more. Anyway, as to your question, I'd probably say being aggressive is best.
But as to my question Nerjin, why do you feel the need to teach people how this game works almost excessively, even borrowing an IC voice? You could speak normally you know. Are you doing it to help the newer players in this game? Or maybe you do it because you're scum and trying to lull everyone into trusting you.

Because as of yet the IC's haven't popped in. I have more experience in BM's than some of the other players and I want them to be eased into the mafia experience so that they will continue to play for a long time. You are right that I could speak normally however the IC voice is used to indicate that what you're saying is simply game advice. Make of that what you will. Once the IC's themselves pop on and start handing out advice I plan on dropping the "Sort-of less Inexperience challenged but still new to the game" thing.

Fair enough, I guess. Unvote Nerjin.
Spaghetti7:

borno, do you find it more scummy if someone is very active or not so? Why?

The lurker. Most scum, especially in a game like this, try to stay quiet as to not draw attention to themselves.

Spaghetti, your not voting, who do you think is scummiest right now?

I'm withholding for now, but have my FoS on the rather dormant borno. However, right now I would say Remu looked the most scummy, for the reasons brought out in page 5 of this thread. He was avoiding questions and giving short and unsubstantative replies to questions, never managing to justify if he is town.

Sorry for not posting often, school and all that. But now it's the weekends, so I should be able to post more often. Also, if you're suspicious of Remuthra, why not vote for him?
superBlast:

Now there's more people to ask, Borno, you're my next random voting target!

And for once I actually have a question in my head before writing this! I'm assuming your vote for Nerjin isn't random, and the blue on my and Remu's names means your suspicious of us. So why'd you vote Nerjin over me or Remu?

It was a pressure vote. I was suspicious with the way he acted like an IC, but I was also suspicious of you and Remuthra. Since I only had one vote, I decided to put it on him and point out both of your errors. Also I had posted a question to him, and generally voting with your questions makes them feel more compelled to answer.
Also,

Also the point about me forgetting the scum IC was... well I really did forget about him. My real point was what I said after that. If I was scum I'd be asking him for scum advice and not asking in the game. That's defiantly a stupid idea.

That's complete WIFOM. "I didn't ask the scum IC a scum related question so therefore I am town!" Logic doesn't really work in the mafia boards. That's two slip-ups, superBlast. But anyway, if you were scum and had one player aggressively attacking you and a lurker, who (if any) would you kill at night?
Shakerag:

borno:  Do you put value in analyzing voting patterns?  Yes or no, why?

Well, yes. If someone was changing their votes often/hesitant with voting/OMGUSing, it would be a dead giveaway for scum, and a fatal error for town, and so its always a good idea to keep an eye on people's voting.
The Soldier: If you were the deciding vote between to people, would you chose to lynch the active player who has made a few scumtells, or the lurker who so far hasn't made any tells, but this is mostly because they haven't posted much at all.

[The Soldier]

Lord Allagon, IronyOwl: You haven't posted yet. Busy, lurking, or other?

superBlast: Who is the most suspicious right now? Why so much WIFOM in your posts?

borno: I'd get rid of the lurker, since deliberately lurking is a definite scumtell, whereas most other tells can be ambiguous (especially with newbies). I admit I have some bias against people who join games and then don't participate, though.
A question for you: do you consider superBlast's mistakes worse than Remuthra's earlier evasiveness?

[borno]

borno:
A question for you: do you consider superBlast's mistakes worse than Remuthra's earlier evasiveness?

The evasiveness of Remuthra is definitely scummy, but I'm finding superBlast quite scummy also with all his mistakes, and I'm chasing him because having only one person to pursue is not really good if it can be helped in this game, because in D2 we have another person to chase after right in front of us.

[Nerjin]

Unvote

Lord Allagon to borrow some language "Get your ass off the lurk-train and onto the forum."

Lurking doesn't help anyone. Maybe you think you'll hide in the back and let everyone else hunt scum for you but that doesn't help anyone. You signed up for mafia, I bid ye to at least say hello to us all.

[Shakerag]

Alright I'll call you Shake then.

Wonderful.

Though I never thought I'd have to explicitly state I am town or I'm not scum. No one else has including you. I haven't seen anyone else say "I'm town so don't go after me!" or, "I'm not teh scumz so don't vote me!" so why do you want me specifically to say it?

Because I insinuated that you're scum, possibly with Remuthra.  Not immediately denying that was suspect. 

Kind of a tough question. If it's obvious sarcasm, probably not. Otherwise, I'd pressure him and lynch him if there isn't anyone scummier than him.

[As a note, sarcasm tends to not go over well during games.  Unless one makes it obvious by including "sarcasm tags".]

I played a tiny bit on other sites. I read a ton of games here, especially BMs, so I could hopefully skip as much of the "WTF am I doing" stage as possible.

[It seems to have served you well.  Carry on.]

Alright, I can see how that could be helpful.
Also, I do now have an important question for Remu: If you were scum and being strongly attacked, would you attack back or stop posting and wait for attention to deflect?

[Don't just ask questions to semi-lurkers.  Get in there and get your hands dirty with the active players too.]

Shakerag:

borno:  Do you put value in analyzing voting patterns?  Yes or no, why?

Well, yes. If someone was changing their votes often/hesitant with voting/OMGUSing, it would be a dead giveaway for scum, and a fatal error for town, and so its always a good idea to keep an eye on people's voting.

Okay, that's interesting too, but I was apparently a bit vague on my question.  Do you put stock in analyzing how the votes stand at the end of each day, across multiple days?

borno: I'd get rid of the lurker, since deliberately lurking is a definite scumtell, whereas most other tells can be ambiguous (especially with newbies).

[Not necessarily true.  I've been known to semi-lurk as town with a power role.  Being able to stay under the scum's radar (to avoid getting NKed) and to some degree town's radar (to avoid getting mislynched) keeps you alive longer to use your ability more.  So, by that token, as scum if you see someone not on your team lurking, they may have a power role.  But even if you're trying to "stay off the radar", do keep up at least some activity for the sake of the game.]


Nerjin:  [If you have time to poke at lurkers, you have time to poke at active players too.]

[Nerjin]

Nerjin:  [If you have time to poke at lurkers, you have time to poke at active players too.]

While true I feel I've done rather well with the active players. So far nothing is striking me and I'd like, nay desire, nay need, nay demand more input from those who haven't at this point.

[Shakerag]

Nerjin:  [If you have time to poke at lurkers, you have time to poke at active players too.]

While true I feel I've done rather well with the active players. So far nothing is striking me and I'd like, nay desire, nay need, nay demand more input from those who haven't at this point.

And so you're just going to wait for the scumslips to fall into your lap?  While resting a (presumably) pressure vote on a lurker?  I know you've got some experience under your belt, so what do you think of me calling you out as activelurking scum, Nerjin?

[Nerjin]

Nerjin:  [If you have time to poke at lurkers, you have time to poke at active players too.]

While true I feel I've done rather well with the active players. So far nothing is striking me and I'd like, nay desire, nay need, nay demand more input from those who haven't at this point.

And so you're just going to wait for the scumslips to fall into your lap?  While resting a (presumably) pressure vote on a lurker?  I know you've got some experience under your belt, so what do you think of me calling you out as activelurking scum, Nerjin?

I think you don't truly believe it as I have been rather active and scum-hunting. I think that you're putting that vote on me in order to try to get me to slip up and say something damning.

[Teneb]

“Why did you lock them in a room?”

“Excuse me?”

“Why did you lock nine magisters in a room, Archmage?”

“It’s… part of an experiment.”

“What kind of experiment would require nine of our own to be sealed in a room? Didn’t the Cabal split from us because they wanted to do such ‘experiments’?”

“I’m afraid I cannot say more on the matter.”

“This is not over, Archmage”

“No, Tiruin, it is over, and we shall not speak of it again.”


Nerjin(1):Shakerag
The Soldier(0):
superBlast(1):borno
borno(1):superBlast
Lord Allagon(1):Nerjin
Sphagetti7(0):
Remuthra(1):The Soldier
Shakerag(0):
IronyOwl(0):

Not Voting: Lord Allagon, Sphagetti7, Remutrha, IronyOwl

[Spaghetti7]

Alright Nerjin, if you feel you've done well against the "active" players, give me your read on them, and reasons.

[superBlast]

Unvote. Yeah your clear.

Also the point about me forgetting the scum IC was... well I really did forget about him. My real point was what I said after that. If I was scum I'd be asking him for scum advice and not asking in the game. That's defiantly a stupid idea.

That's complete WIFOM. "I didn't ask the scum IC a scum related question so therefore I am town!" Logic doesn't really work in the mafia boards. That's two slip-ups, superBlast. But anyway, if you were scum and had one player aggressively attacking you and a lurker, who (if any) would you kill at night?

Let me answer question first. If I was scum, If i think I could convince my attack I'm atleast null at best, I'd go for the lurker to try make eyes go off of me. If I'm convinced I can't shake him off me and he's gonna end up getting me lynched, I'd NK him.

Now on to the WIFOM part:
More accidental WIFOM... great... -_-

I guess it is WIFOM but I didn't think of it that way. If I was seriously scum, but i didn't ask the scum IC for scum advice or if I seriously scum, but i'm trying to ask for scum advice in the game (even trying to camouflage it somehow to make look like I'm really not) is incredibly stupid. The first one renders the scum IC useless and is stupid because I'm not using a resource that can help me win the game. The second one gives me away to the town that I'm scum. It's WIFOM because that makes me neither town nor scum so that makes it null and a completely useless defense and a completely useless fact to make a case and yet that's the only thing you have on me. Yes it's suspicious but on it's own I think it's completely useless. And now your probably gonna say that's really defensive of me, supicously defensive of me. Fine I don't mind it's what you just said makes me frustrated because it feels like your missing something blatantly obvious to me. Which would be it if I really wasn't using the scum IC for advice or that if I was asking for scum advice in the game thread then I'd be incredibly stupid and I completely deserve to get lynched because I was so stupid... I mean it's so stupid I wouldn't think anyone would actually do it.

I need to calm down... breath in... breath out.... lol.

@Soldier: Why the so much WIFOM? Because it's not on purpose. The first one about being scum question toward Remu, all he had to do was say no and I would've moved on from him without thinking much into it since the correct answer is no. I never thought of it as WIFOM until Nerjin pointed it out. And that was his first case of being evasive... actually my questions before that he didn't answer seriously now that I think about it. And my second case of WIFOM was accidental as well.

Who am I most suspicious of right now? Remu defiantly for what you guys pointed out. As a fellow newbie... er... well he actually got games under his belt.... anyways I understand the want to sit back and observe since everything is confusing as hell... so I'm not suspicious of him for that, but I am suspicious of him for being evasive. Didn't notice at first until you guys started pointing it out but he was even evasive of my questions at the beginning of the game. I wasn't being 100% serious at the time but now I am. Also I'd like to point out his last post was over a day ago... so i puts him into lurker status in my book.

So I'm gonna stop voting random people now and and vote who I suspect and that would be Remu.

Vote Remuthra

@Shake: I didn't get it in my last post but while I was typing something toward Borno, I realized what the point of your question was to see if I deny being scum or partners with Remu. Which yeah you got me on that since I didn't immediately deny it. I didn't even think of it like that and thought a no as in "no your wrong" would be good enough. Since i didn't get that it was felt like you was going after me and was scum trying to build a case on a townie. But now that I see it, I'm putting you on my townie side since I can see more "scumhunting" and less "specifically going after me". Though of course your not 100% off the hook... no one is until death or cop says otherwise.

Preedit: Man 5 posts pop up while I was typing. Good thing only one has anything to do with me.

Shake: Yeah i figured that out already if you read the above.

[IronyOwl]

Right then.

Nerjin, Tiruin, and Shakerag seem to have covered most of the basics, so I'll just add that if you're having trouble thinking of questions, you're probably overthinking things. You want to ask players questions that help you get a better grasp of them. While that obviously makes some questions better than others, there isn't any particular magic involved; you just think of something that someone might tell you more about themselves by answering.


Nerjin:

@Irony Owl: Same question as Shakerag but with you in his place and being unable to take Shake.

You mean who would I want my scumbuddy to be? Probably you, since you seem to have a very good grasp of what's going on. Not sure you needed another BM, really.


Sphagetti:

But since you insist, hey Spaghetti. How would you best keep the scum from targetting you?

I would deflect it to other people. Build up a good case against someone else, and push it hard if votes started falling on my head. If that failed, then I would push against those leading the bandwagon against me and try to expose them while they're weak on the offence. Try to reveal them to the people following for the wagon.

You'd deflect scum's attention onto someone else by building a good case on them?

Spaghetti7:  If you had a one-shot day inspect, when would you use it?

I would wait for a bandwagon to begin, and use it on the leader of the attack. This would help me know whether scum were going for offense or defense.

How would you define the "leader?" Whoever voted first? Whoever was pushing hardest? Something else? What if someone was voting them well before it became a bandwagon, or the current one pushing them hardest didn't always have that honor?

Alright, Unvote Nerjin.
borno, do you find it more scummy if someone is very active or not so? Why?

This seems like an awfully weak question, doesn't it? Were you hoping for an answer beyond the obvious?


borno:

borno:
A question for you: do you consider superBlast's mistakes worse than Remuthra's earlier evasiveness?

The evasiveness of Remuthra is definitely scummy, but I'm finding superBlast quite scummy also with all his mistakes, and I'm chasing him because having only one person to pursue is not really good if it can be helped in this game, because in D2 we have another person to chase after right in front of us.

Lining up an easy D2 target already, eh? What do you think of prepping a D2 lynch before you've even seen the results of your D1 bandwagon?


Shakerag:

IronyOwl:  How do you plan on terrorizing this batch of newbies?

By FUCKING LYNCHING their asses IMMEDIATELY if they make SO MUCH AS ONE GODDAMNED MISTAKE.

Really though, I wouldn't say I terrorize newbies...

Usually. :x


Soldier:

Lord Allagon, IronyOwl: You haven't posted yet. Busy, lurking, or other?

Both. All? Not sure what other would be if I'm both busy and procrastinating.

I admit I have some bias against people who join games and then don't participate, though.

Uh oh.


superBlast:

So I'm gonna stop voting random people now and and vote who I suspect and that would be Remu.

Vote Remuthra

TIME TO MISLYNCH YOU AGAIN HAHAHAHA!

Uh, ahem. This is nice and all, but are you actually pressuring Remu at the moment, or have you just decided he's the best target to kill? A very quick scan back didn't reveal anything, and it's usually better to try to get a better read on someone, even someone you genuinely suspect is scum, than to just vote them and sit on what you've got.

[Spaghetti7]

Spaghetti:

But since you insist, hey Spaghetti. How would you best keep the scum from targetting you?

I would deflect it to other people. Build up a good case against someone else, and push it hard if votes started falling on my head. If that failed, then I would push against those leading the bandwagon against me and try to expose them while they're weak on the offence. Try to reveal them to the people following for the wagon.

You'd deflect scum's attention onto someone else by building a good case on them?

No, on somebody else. During the course of scum hunting I would eventually find someone to push and break. I could then start shouting and screaming about that if somebody tried to bring me down.

Spaghetti7:  If you had a one-shot day inspect, when would you use it?
I would wait for a bandwagon to begin, and use it on the leader of the attack. This would help me know whether scum were going for offense or defense.

How would you define the "leader?" Whoever voted first? Whoever was pushing hardest? Something else? What if someone was voting them well before it became a bandwagon, or the current one pushing them hardest didn't always have that honor?

It doesn't matter who started it () I would use it on the person leading everyone else, the one pushing the hardest. Unless this person has truly torn in to them and proven they're scummy the most probable reason they're really pushing is because they themselves are scum.

Alright, Unvote Nerjin.
borno, do you find it more scummy if someone is very active or not so? Why?

This seems like an awfully weak question, doesn't it? Were you hoping for an answer beyond the obvious?

At that moment, I was going after his sudden relapse from the game, but then he gave a good reason of school, so I backed off.