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[thistleknot]

I've been there.  I'm sure you both will be great contributor's!

[ResMar]

Holy smokes, this really blew up while I was away. I actually rubbed my eyes a bit when I saw the Toady toad in the avatar.

A solution would to split the view into two, one "compact" version which further compresses the hauling labors to one column (something I suggested in the guide that couldn't be implemented until recently with the introduction of super-labors, and which I have implemented in the latest versions of the guide), and an expanded view that basically lets it all hang out. It wouldn't be hard to do, and would address this...warring.

...Once I figure out how to add them back in...

So Splinterz, maybe a splash screen, so that when you load the program the first time, it prompts you with "FYI there's a guide"?

[splinterz]

crossmr and salithus need to cool off.  Please stop fighting in the thread.

thanks for stepping in on that erm.. conversation.

Holy smokes, this really blew up while I was away. I actually rubbed my eyes a bit when I saw the Toady toad in the avatar.

A solution would to split the view into two, one "compact" version which further compresses the hauling labors to one column (something I suggested in the guide that couldn't be implemented until recently with the introduction of super-labors, and which I have implemented in the latest versions of the guide), and an expanded view that basically lets it all hang out. It wouldn't be hard to do, and would address this...warring.

...Once I figure out how to add them back in...

So Splinterz, maybe a splash screen, so that when you load the program the first time, it prompts you with "FYI there's a guide"?

i think it's a valid concern that not every labor is accessible in the base view (especially for new players). nobody seems to be complaining about the column rearrangement nor the new colors, so let's keep that and just create a 'compact' and 'full' version of the view by default, as you've suggested. my arbitrary naming scheme probably didn't help either.

yeah that manual needs a button on the main toolbar for visibility.

[crossmr]

i think it's a valid concern that not every labor is accessible in the base view (especially for new players). nobody seems to be complaining about the column rearrangement nor the new colors, so let's keep that and just create a 'compact' and 'full' version of the view by default, as you've suggested. my arbitrary naming scheme probably didn't help either.

yeah that manual needs a button on the main toolbar for visibility.

Because the missing labours was a primary concern.
Jobs should be grouped as they are in the interface, it creates less confusion. While Stone crafting is mildly related to masonry, it's just as related to woodcrafting but it also shares the same category in the actual game.

The colors really aren't that important so long as they're logical and easy to follow.

[ResMar]

I got lost in the Farmer sublabors one too many times to tolerate the default labor arrangement. Toady's structure works when your labor toggles are a textual list---less so when they're in a matrix. Remember also that Toady limits himself to a certain restricted color pallet in the interface.

Here is the compact grid view:
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=9233

Here is the expanded grid view:
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=9314

[MeMyselfAndI]

I do not believe that any labors should be hidden be default.

For one thing, I routinely toggle off all labors on someone or a group of dwarves and then manually turn on labors that I want the specific dwarf to have. Without all labors shown, this will get... Problematic.

DT used to be a useful tool for me, but the recent (or perhaps, "recent") updates have added nothing that is actually useful for me, while making it more tedious to use. If I had more time, I'd fork it. As-is... I don't know. I've largely simply stopped using it.

[splinterz]

I do not believe that any labors should be hidden be default.

For one thing, I routinely toggle off all labors on someone or a group of dwarves and then manually turn on labors that I want the specific dwarf to have. Without all labors shown, this will get... Problematic.

DT used to be a useful tool for me, but the recent (or perhaps, "recent") updates have added nothing that is actually useful for me, while making it more tedious to use. If I had more time, I'd fork it. As-is... I don't know. I've largely simply stopped using it.

are those new views still hiding labours then? i haven't had a chance to look.

i'd still like to hear in more detail what changes are making things more tedious though.

[Berserkenstein]

(bzzt)

[splinterz]

I got lost in the Farmer sublabors one too many times to tolerate the default labor arrangement. Toady's structure works when your labor toggles are a textual list---less so when they're in a matrix. Remember also that Toady limits himself to a certain restricted color pallet in the interface.

Here is the compact grid view:
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=9233

Here is the expanded grid view:
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=9314

the compact view will give anyone who doesn't have that specific hauling superlabor problems.

[vjek]

If you're looking for opinions, in 23.4 I switched to "Labors Alt." and then settled on "Labors NO SPACERS" as my view after I discovered the loss of Cleaning as something I could adjust. (when migrating from 23.0)

My personal view is that I want to see ALL the labors by default.  Having additional optional views with less information is great, but give it to me straight, up front.

Also, and I realize this is nitpicking..but I have a feature request;
 When I set a custom profession, personally I just want to set the labors, and not adjust the profession/title.  At the moment, this means I create a custom profession, apply it, and then as an additional step, I use the customization sub-menu and select "Reset to Default Profession" so the name is not applied.
I have to do this each time, which is a little bit tedious and to a degree, takes away some of the value or convenience of using Custom Professions, for me.

As an option, it would be nice if we could get a checkbox for "Apply Custom Profession Titles with Custom Profession Labors" and have it enabled by default.  That way, for those of us content with the in-game professions, we would only have to de-select that and everything would be grand.  When de-selected, only the labors would be applied.
_{( btw, I did read through and search the manual several times and couldn't find a way to do this, currently, but would be happy to be educated if the option already exists and I missed it. )}

splinterz, this is a fantastic piece of software, and you're awesome for maintaining it.  Good job, well done, thank you very much for all the time & effort to date. 

[splinterz]

If you're looking for opinions, in 23.4 I switched to "Labors Alt." and then settled on "Labors NO SPACERS" as my view after I discovered the loss of Cleaning as something I could adjust. (when migrating from 23.0)

My personal view is that I want to see ALL the labors by default.  Having additional optional views with less information is great, but give it to me straight, up front.

Also, and I realize this is nitpicking..but I have a feature request;
 When I set a custom profession, personally I just want to set the labors, and not adjust the profession/title.  At the moment, this means I create a custom profession, apply it, and then as an additional step, I use the customization sub-menu and select "Reset to Default Profession" so the name is not applied.
I have to do this each time, which is a little bit tedious and to a degree, takes away some of the value or convenience of using Custom Professions, for me.

As an option, it would be nice if we could get a checkbox for "Apply Custom Profession Titles with Custom Profession Labors" and have it enabled by default.  That way, for those of us content with the in-game professions, we would only have to de-select that and everything would be grand.  When de-selected, only the labors would be applied.
_{( btw, I did read through and search the manual several times and couldn't find a way to do this, currently, but would be happy to be educated if the option already exists and I missed it. )}

splinterz, this is a fantastic piece of software, and you're awesome for maintaining it.  Good job, well done, thank you very much for all the time & effort to date. 

thanks for the encouragement   for your feature request, i believe what you want to use are the new superlabors. you can create them from a dwarf via the right click menu, or from the button beside the new custom profession button on the customization dock. however they're really for toggling multiple labors, you can't (yet?) apply them as a mask like custom professions, if that's what you require.

[ResMar]

I got lost in the Farmer sublabors one too many times to tolerate the default labor arrangement. Toady's structure works when your labor toggles are a textual list---less so when they're in a matrix. Remember also that Toady limits himself to a certain restricted color pallet in the interface.

Here is the compact grid view:
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=9233

Here is the expanded grid view:
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=9314

the compact view will give anyone who doesn't have that specific hauling superlabor problems.

Well then, add superlabors to the import/export files. I did a quick test and deleted the superlabor, then imported the view, and it seemed to me like you had done this already?

And you guys are seriously acting as though you can't just go to the drop-down menu and pick the view of your choice. It's seriously scaring me, this is, like, ground rule one of basic Dwarf Therapist configuration.

[splinterz]

I got lost in the Farmer sublabors one too many times to tolerate the default labor arrangement. Toady's structure works when your labor toggles are a textual list---less so when they're in a matrix. Remember also that Toady limits himself to a certain restricted color pallet in the interface.

Here is the compact grid view:
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=9233

Here is the expanded grid view:
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=9314

the compact view will give anyone who doesn't have that specific hauling superlabor problems.

Well then, add superlabors to the import/export files. I did a quick test and deleted the superlabor, then imported the view, and it seemed to me like you had done this already?

as soon as i figure out how to get more hours in a day i'll be able to appease all your whims and demands. until then, you may have to be patient. it shouldn't blow up or anything if it's missing the superlabor you've added to the view, but it won't do anything and just state it's an unknown column.

[ResMar]

What's up? What's at issue? I'm not demanding immediate action from you, I'm tossing all of the things I have to say about implementation into the issue tracker now while I still have the time and wherewithal to be helpful.

Edit: I did the following: export the compact labors gridview; delete the compact labors gridview; delete the hauling superlabor; import the compact labors gridview; open the compact labors gridview. The view works, and the hauling superlabor is added to the customizations dock. It doesn't appear that you have to do any additional work on this.

[notfood]

hah, I didn't even notice cleaning was missing. I guess I never used it much.