Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Zrk2]

Zrk2: Adding to the above:

For someone who said "we should go light on the newbies", you certainly came at Alamoes pretty hard.

I'm really not going to be surprised if he drops out now. (Please don't, Alamoes, you can deal with this!)

I did. My main issue is that despite being repeatedly told he needs to come up with a reason for placing his vote, and not throwing it away he has made no visible effort to do so, so I'm calling him out on it. Consider it a pressure vote. I doubt he'll be lynched today, but he still needs to put some visible effort in. I am all for easing the newbies in, but at some point we need to force them to stand on their own two feet. It is unfair to expect a brilliantly written comprehensive argument supporting his placement of his vote, but a line or two justifying its' placement, or even a placement of it, is not too much to expect.

[Teneb]

Unvote. I'm reading the thread and will post again.

[zombie urist]

Zrk2: I believe you're wrong. If Alamoes was scum, he'd have teammates coaching him. He doesn't look coached. Freshman is (was) far more likely to be scum because of his relative silence. There are things missing from his posts that I would expect to see, and I feel like I'm only hearing part of the conversation.
Personally, I find a lot of noobtells and towntells in his posts. I've not seen a single thing that makes him scummy in my book.

Why are you defending him? Alamoes

Zombie Urist: I'd like you to address this:

Freshmaniscoolman:

What item would you be most worried about scum having?
Why do you care about that? Perhaps maybe you're asking me to get that specific item and worry me.

I don't think it's been said yet, but this is incredibly paranoid. You can only acquire items randomly in this game (aside from starting items), so the idea of acquiring a specific item is absurd. (unless I'm missing something)
Showing contempt for the question and for RVS in general is not exactly a winning strategy, Freshman. Until I see something better from you, you really deserve this vote.

Ok. I don't really see contempt but whatever.

Zombie Urist

alamoes
Can you confirm that you understand the concept of OMGUS, as per my explanation here?

This looks like a time-waster question.

So, following up on a previously unanswered question is time wasting now, is it?

zombie urist
Why'd you think Fresh bailed out?

No idea.

Not even the smallest idea? I find this lack of curiousity astounding, especially given how scummy your predecessor came across as.

1. The previous question was kindof a time-waster question too IMO. So yeah.
2. Nope.

[Captain Ford]

Zrk2: Where you see no progress, I see him making iterative improvements. If you want to see him improve faster, here's how you should do it.

Alamoes: Ask three different people questions about things they have written, or I will vote you.

PPE: ZU

I'm defending him because I don't think he's going to be able to defend himself.

[Teneb]

Vector (assuming this was directed to me and not Zrk2. He answered but I'll do it anyway)

How long do you intend to spend noob-sniping throughout this game, given that we have a lot of noobs and it is indeed difficult to spread one's attention very far?  Furthermore, how will you differentiate noob-town and noob-scum?

I intend to tell noob-town and noob-scum apart by questioning them. Newbies are difficult to read because they are newbies, and thus more attention should be paid when questioning them.

IG:

2.assist the town by weeding out scum

And how do you plan to weed out scum?

also, freshman might have quit because he was scum, i think he realized his impending doom, quit, and let zombieurist fill his role so the heat would come off of him!

Unless you are able to read freshman's mind, or freshman himself comes here and tell us why he quit, there is no way to know. Speculating about this leads nowhere. If you think he was scum, question ZU.


ZU: I think you messed up a quote and voted yourself.

Ford:

I'm defending him because I don't think he's going to be able to defend himself.

Wouldn't you want to, maybe, try to find out if someone is town or not before attempting to defend them?

[Vector]

Yes.  You will question them.  But what is the litmus test you're going to use to differentiate them?

[Captain Ford]

Wouldn't you want to, maybe, try to find out if someone is town or not before attempting to defend them?

Been there, done that. I've stated my reasons quite clearly.

[Vector]

Leafsnail.  You've been gone for a while. . . what do you think of everything that's going on?

[Captain Ford]

PFP - I've been at work this whole time, actually. Kept forgetting to mention it.

To add to that, DS, I also haven't done all his work for him. At this point, I'm more concerned about him dropping out entirely, and I'm hoping to prevent that.

Aside from that, he's not in a position to defend himself from those accusations. Do you honestly expect him to suddenly say, "that's not fair, I'm learning!" I sure as hell don't. If he did, I'd wonder who suddenly started playing for him.

He probably has no clue how to respond to what Zrk2 said. He's probably pretty certain he's screwed now. He'd be wrong, of course.

Alamoes: The worst thing you could do right now is quit. Even if the whole town jumps on you, you'll learn more by losing than you would by quitting.

[zombie urist]

Good catch.

I will vote Captain Ford instead.

[Zrk2]

Yeah, he's definitely not screwed, IIRC there's two people voting for him and four(?) voting for ZU. The best thing to would be to prove me wrong by coming out guns blazing with his own vote and a case to back it up.

[Hapah]

NQT

Hapah

It looks to me that your non-Fresh questions don't have much pressure at all.

I see pressure as an iterative process: I ask a question, and then pressure is applied to the response. Not everyone has responded to me, and of those that have, some of the answers have been reasonable and not given much to sink my teeth into.

I understand that. I understand the questions to Fresh as well, for the most part. But I don't see the possible angles of attack in some posts, like you questions to ImpGuard here, or your question to DS here. Could you describe the sorts of replies you might find suspicious?

zombie urist
Why'd you think Fresh bailed out?

No idea.

Not even the smallest idea? I find this lack of curiousity astounding, especially given how scummy your predecessor came across as.

This is a really opportunistic jab, NQT. If you replaced in for someone, can you honestly say you'd speculate on why they left? There's no point to it.

Zrk2: Adding to the above:

For someone who said "we should go light on the newbies", you certainly came at Alamoes pretty hard.

I'm really not going to be surprised if he drops out now. (Please don't, Alamoes, you can deal with this!)

I did. My main issue is that despite being repeatedly told he needs to come up with a reason for placing his vote, and not throwing it away he has made no visible effort to do so, so I'm calling him out on it. Consider it a pressure vote. I doubt he'll be lynched today, but he still needs to put some visible effort in. I am all for easing the newbies in, but at some point we need to force them to stand on their own two feet. It is unfair to expect a brilliantly written comprehensive argument supporting his placement of his vote, but a line or two justifying its' placement, or even a placement of it, is not too much to expect.

Well put.

[Zrk2]

Well put.

Why thank you.

[Leafsnail]

Yeah I haven't been paying this game so much attention recently.  Mainly due to KotM and the intense distracting power that only a new VN I actually like can provide.  Also another reason I'll go into below.  Unvote.

It was more that I was using your question to him as a segue into a more in depth question to ask you. Which you haven't answered.

That was a question for me?  I assumed it was rhetorical.  The answer is yes - if someone jumps on someone only after it seems like they're doomed.  It's a bit like bussing, but bussing implies that you're the one consigning your partner to death, wheras this is more like damage limitation for an already dying partner.

Leafsnail.  You've been gone for a while. . . what do you think of everything that's going on?

I think a lot of this what's going on is intensely irrelevant.  This has made the game kindof a chore to read - so much stuff that just doesn't matter bouncing back and forth endlessly.  So I'm going to take this back to The Fundamental Question that does matter (and request that everyone else try to think about this question a bit more)

Who in this game is actually scum?

I believe I have an answer to this question: Zrk2.

His entire contribution to this game has been white noise.  I cannot see anything of his that has been aimed at answering the fundamental question above.  He'll just ask a question and answer a question and get into a minor quibble about mafia theory.

His vote on Alamoes was the one thing he's done that I thought looked ok.  But he backed away from it as soon as Captain Ford made a criticism of him (post #210) - apparently the Alamoes vote was "a pressure vote", and Zrk2 doesn't expect Alamoes to get lynched today.  There are three issues I see with this:
1. A pressure vote which you call a pressure vote carries no weight at all.  This seems very obvious to me, and I don't think Zrk2 would miss this fact.
2. If we are to believe Zrk2's answer to Captain Ford, and the vote on Alamoes isn't a vote against someone he thinks is scum, then Zrk2 has done nothing to find scum at all for the entire game.  This would make it yet another post from Zrk2 that doesn't even try to address the important matters, and which instead makes him look like he's doing something.
3. His initial vote does not actually look like a pressure vote.  Thus, I think there is a strong chance that he was in fact backpeddling in post #210 - he noticed there was a minor contradiction in his earlier actions, so he tried to retroactively change the intended meaning of his Alamoes vote.  For me, this retroactive changing of motive is an extremely strong scumtell (I was caught doing it myself a few games ago, even).

My conclusion is that Zrk2 is scum.  He's attempting to be seen as an active, contributing player, but his failure to address the important question and his backpedaling over his Alamoes vote exposes the fact that his primary objective is to avoid drawing attention.

[Vector]

Well... damn.  That's an excellent point.  I'll need to reread to confirm, but for now Zrk2.

Tiruin and zombieurist, your reads on everyone please.