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Author Topic: Making Marksdwarves effective in melee (will it work?)  (Read 9364 times)

slothen

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Re: Making Marksdwarves effective in melee (will it work?)
« Reply #45 on: May 16, 2013, 10:10:33 am »

I'm pretty sure that danger room training your marksdwarves and giving them metal armor and metal crossbows will make them effective in melee.  Individual combat drill seems to do nothing for marksdwarves (literally), but deflections from danger rooms should make them legendary hammerdwarves and improve all their defensive skills.  They won't bash down a steel forgotten best or be as effective as hammerdwarves, but even weak blunt weapons accumulate damage against any organic opponent, and the defensive-skills + attribute gain will make them VERY survivable against both elite bowgoblins (the bane of legendary marksdwarves everywhere) and just in general combat, where how long you live is more important than how fast you kill things for overall combat effectiveness.
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Centigrade

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Re: Making Marksdwarves effective in melee (will it work?)
« Reply #46 on: May 16, 2013, 11:11:20 am »

I'm pretty sure that danger room training your marksdwarves and giving them metal armor and metal crossbows will make them effective in melee.  Individual combat drill seems to do nothing for marksdwarves (literally), but deflections from danger rooms should make them legendary hammerdwarves and improve all their defensive skills.  They won't bash down a steel forgotten best or be as effective as hammerdwarves, but even weak blunt weapons accumulate damage against any organic opponent, and the defensive-skills + attribute gain will make them VERY survivable against both elite bowgoblins (the bane of legendary marksdwarves everywhere) and just in general combat, where how long you live is more important than how fast you kill things for overall combat effectiveness.

This is true.

Giving them battle axes and sending them into a danger room will level up their skill with axes a bit faster than hammers, and by the time you have a legendary hammerdwarf you will generally have Great defensive skills. I do this for all of my military dwarfs. My standard equipment for militia includes steel shields, copper crossbows, and adamantine battle axes.
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Magistrum

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Re: Making Marksdwarves effective in melee (will it work?)
« Reply #47 on: May 16, 2013, 12:13:16 pm »

My standard equipment for militia includes steel shields, copper crossbows, and adamantine battle axes.
Stell in Shields is just a waste, use the stell for the crossbows and make the Shields of something less costly, it don't affect the defense.
On side, if you want the shield to do some damage when using it to bash, make it of silver, the stell Works better with warhammers than silver.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Making Marksdwarves effective in melee (will it work?)
« Reply #48 on: May 16, 2013, 12:31:19 pm »

My standard equipment for militia includes steel shields, copper crossbows, and adamantine battle axes.
Stell in Shields is just a waste, use the stell for the crossbows and make the Shields of something less costly, it don't affect the defense.
On side, if you want the shield to do some damage when using it to bash, make it of silver, the stell Works better with warhammers than silver.
'Steel' in shields is a luxury that if you can afford you should. It's better than copper in that it doesn't melt in magma, is better for bludgeoning and is lighter. Silver cannot be used to make shields.

Magistrum

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Re: Making Marksdwarves effective in melee (will it work?)
« Reply #49 on: May 16, 2013, 12:43:56 pm »

My standard equipment for militia includes steel shields, copper crossbows, and adamantine battle axes.
Stell in Shields is just a waste, use the stell for the crossbows and make the Shields of something less costly, it don't affect the defense.
On side, if you want the shield to do some damage when using it to bash, make it of silver, the stell Works better with warhammers than silver.
'Steel' in shields is a luxury that if you can afford you should. It's better than copper in that it doesn't melt in magma, is better for bludgeoning and is lighter. Silver cannot be used to make shields.
They can't be made of silver? I never noticed that, I only make my Shields out of wood since I aways have a Legendary +2 at the spring of the second year...
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Making Marksdwarves effective in melee (will it work?)
« Reply #50 on: May 16, 2013, 01:06:31 pm »

They can't be made of silver? I never noticed that, I only make my Shields out of wood since I aways have a Legendary +2 at the spring of the second year...
Yeah wood or leather tends to be the best, just because it's the cheapest

VerdantSF

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Re: Making Marksdwarves effective in melee (will it work?)
« Reply #51 on: May 16, 2013, 01:30:52 pm »

I'm pretty sure that danger room training your marksdwarves and giving them metal armor and metal crossbows will make them effective in melee.

You don't even need a danger room.  With 2 & 3-dwarf squads, the xp gains seem even faster than before, especially in the shield skill.  I only have 1 marksdwarf at the moment, but he's decked out in steel armor and wields a steel crossbow.  I don't bother with fortifications or patrol orders anymore for him.  He just rushes out with the melee dwarves, shoots his 25 bolts, then joins the fray.

Stell in Shields is just a waste, use the stell for the crossbows and make the Shields of something less costly, it don't affect the defense.

For me, it's about style 8).  Once I get my steel industry going, I go ahead and splurge on steel everything, including shields and crossbows.  By the time I get to that point, my metalsmiths are a lot more experienced, so even though the metal itself isn't better, the actual armor and weapons are due to craftsmanship :D.

Magistrum

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Re: Making Marksdwarves effective in melee (will it work?)
« Reply #52 on: May 16, 2013, 01:36:30 pm »

For me, it's about style 8).  Once I get my steel industry going, I go ahead and splurge on steel everything, including shields and crossbows.  By the time I get to that point, my metalsmiths are a lot more experienced, so even though the metal itself isn't better, the actual armor and weapons are due to craftsmanshipCraftsdwarfship :D.
fixed for you. I use wooden shilds because its faster to train a Carpenter than a metalsmith.
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Larix

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Re: Making Marksdwarves effective in melee (will it work?)
« Reply #53 on: May 16, 2013, 02:20:40 pm »

I wouldn't bother trying to optimise my marksdwarfs' shield bashing ability - it's a rare variant attack they can perform and even with a heavy shield (which might slow them down) isn't that much better than a bare-handed punch or a kick. If you train them in a danger room, they'll be missing the relevant skill anyway.

They should do well enough with a metal crossbow, swung with high skill. Arena testing says steel crossbows are devastatingly effective against spinal chords, lungs and brains (but next to useless against everything else). Weight matters a lot - adamantine crossbows were utterly ineffective, as were adamantine wheelbarrows (huh? i was just curious. Bashing stuff with a wheelbarrow trains the 'mining' skill, strangely enough).
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