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[Lenglon]

Ottofar: I'd prefer Vig, even when I've found scum I have trouble arguing my cases well, having a vigkill would allow me to bypass that problem if necessary.

Are you planning on attacking someone at any point, or are you ready to just hang back now?

I'm willing to let the series of people attacking each other for attacking each other (see: NQT, ONR, ZU, Leafsnail, Dariush, Toonyman, and as of your last post, you) resolve itself, and I am more curious about what the people not involved in that mess are thinking/doing. like Ottofar, Tiruin, and Toaster. (Pup is busy starting another fight with Deathsword for his failure to answer questions again.) i've got a question out to both Otto and Tiruin, and I'm waiting for a reply from each of them. Toaster's most recent actions have been mild RVS-ish questions, but I think I understand how they function so I don't have anything to ask about them.

Vector: what possible conclusions are you drawing from the similarity of Pup's name and a character in a book by H.G. Wells?

also, did your flavor specifically name typhoid or did it describe the symptoms and you figured out which disease it was?

[lordnincompoop]

Votecount:

Dariush	- 0 -
Deathsword	- 1 -	griffinpup
griffinpup	- 0 -
Leafsnail	- 1 -	notquitethere
Lenglon	- 1 -	Vector
notquitethere	- 3 -	Okami No Rei, Toaster, Ottofar
Okami No Rei	- 2 -	zombie urist, Leafsnail
Ottofar	- 0 -
Tiruin	- 0 -
Toaster	- 0 -
ToonyMan	- 0 -
Vector	- 0 -
zombie urist	- 2 -	ToonyMan, Dariush
-
Not Voting	- 3 -	Deathsword, Lenglon, Tiruin
No Lynch	- 0 -
-
Extend	- 0 -
Shorten	- 0 -

The Day will end in 48 hours, on the 8th of August, 8PM GMT.

4 players required to Extend, 7 to Shorten. 4 Extends left for the Day.

[Vector]

I'm willing to let the series of people attacking each other for attacking each other (see: NQT, ONR, ZU, Leafsnail, Dariush, Toonyman, and as of your last post, you) resolve itself

Why on earth do you think I'm attacking you for attacking me?

Vector: what possible conclusions are you drawing from the similarity of Pup's name and a character in a book by H.G. Wells?

It's one of those Significant Names.  It's like having the last name "Hitler"; usually it means something.  I thought I'd toss it out there just in case.

also, did your flavor specifically name typhoid or did it describe the symptoms and you figured out which disease it was?

It specifically named typhoid.

[ToonyMan]

Toonyman: I don't understand why you voted Zombie Urist. why did you do that? the only thing you addresed to him in your vote post was an explanation of why you thought we were in Germany.

I thought mimicking his actions would be interesting since I didn't like his vote on Okami.

. . . To the idea that scum are always playing a role?

Couldn't you argue that town also play in role?  I don't really think people are out to kill us.

...
ok
unvote

For a whole post of content this is in incredibly passive and timid.  Always hold a vote on somebody even after unvoting someone.  I can only really give you a free pass for the briefest of moments thanks to seeing your play in TM7.

Dariush:  What lessons from the previous WC games do you think can be applied to this one?

Well, witches will probably turn out to not be the main threat, but some other magic users will. In the first game we had a wizard with a golem, next we had elves, now I won't be surprised if we have druids with shamans and spirits of the dead people from the previous games or something.

Wow really?  I never would have knew this since I haven't checked the older games.  Good to know.

Toony
"Lord Crussol, you are quite right in zat no one is above suspicion. No one, zat is, but the Pope. What is your problem with ze papacy?"

"I wish for a peaceful place, and do not want witch-trials ravaging the town.  This is purely for the good of the people."


@Leafsnail:
Either you missed my post or you're trying to avoid a reply.

I see little benefit to be gleaned from flavour claim town wise because the witches can be anyone, as made clear in the flavour.  On the other hand interesting town people would be more likely to have roles and would therefore be clear murder candidates for the scum.  Dariush's quoted passage doesn't suggest that claiming is a good idea at all.

So you say, but from that point I can only see it as WIFOM for the mafia.  The viscount must have a pretty powerful ability, right?  R-right??  Ehehe.  Or that widow must not be anything special...maybe.


Soft-claims:
Toaster

I am Jean Petit, a farmer of moderate means.  I have come into town with a wagonload of vegetables to sell this summer in the market.  Said wagon is still sitting in the stables at the inn where I'm staying.

Dariush

I am Michiel Verdomme, a tailor catering to the wealthy customers.

Deathsword

I am Pierre Guiot, merchant of fine cloth.

zombie urist

I'm Denis Le Breton, an old-clothes salesman. Not an old, clothes salesman.

Ottofar

I'm Mathieu Gendre, a journeyman stonemason

griffinpup

I'm  Estienne Moreau, a taverner in town.

Vector

"I'm Marie Bouvet, kitchen maid and widow."

ToonyMan

"I am Jacques de Crussol, 8th Viscount of Uzès!"

notquitethere

My name is Katherine Boulengier and I am a journeyman carpenter, new to this vile.

Lenglon

"I am Regnault Coullart, and I make a living making shoes."

Okami no Rei

I am Colin Fleury, Apprentice Cooper.

As a bonus I should mention Okami is withholding where he grew up.

Does the flavor mention where you grew up in?

Yes.

If so where does it say you grew up in?

I choose not to answer this question at this time.

Tiruin has been busy and Leafsnail is refusing.

[Lenglon]

Why on earth do you think I'm attacking you for attacking me?

I don't, I think you're attacking Dariush for attacking ZU for attacking ONR for attacking NQT. (assuming i haven't mixed up someone in that paranoia dodecahedron.)

Vector: what possible conclusions are you drawing from the similarity of Pup's name and a character in a book by H.G. Wells?

It's one of those Significant Names.  It's like having the last name "Hitler"; usually it means something.  I thought I'd toss it out there just in case.

Vector: and that "something" in this case means... what?

also, did your flavor specifically name typhoid or did it describe the symptoms and you figured out which disease it was?

It specifically named typhoid.

Vector: why would your flavor specifically name typhoid when mine simply says "the plague" when it plays a major role in my past?

[Vector]

Oh, sorry, I thought you would have read the wiki link you sent me.  Doctor Moreau was a butcher of a scientist (a vivisectionist, to be specific) who experimented with giving animals human intelligence.  That sort of role sounds like it would be appropriate for this game.

Why on earth do you think I'm attacking you for attacking me?

I don't, I think you're attacking Dariush for attacking ZU for attacking ONR for attacking NQT. (assuming i haven't mixed up someone in that paranoia dodecahedron.)

So... you think that I'm chainsawing, basically.

Otherwise your claim goes to "I decided to pay attention to those who haven't left RVS left because what they're doing might be more interesting."  Either way, this is absurd.

Vector: why would your flavor specifically name typhoid when mine simply says "the plague" when it plays a major role in my past?

Gee Lenglon, I don't know.  Maybe your character is less educated than mine.

[zombie urist]

Vector: why would your flavor specifically name typhoid when mine simply says "the plague" when it plays a major role in my past?

Typhoid != the plague

I don't, I think you're attacking Dariush for attacking ZU for attacking ONR for attacking NQT. (assuming i haven't mixed up someone in that paranoia dodecahedron.)

This is kinda a stretch. Do you think NQT is scum also?

"I wish for a peaceful place, and do not want witch-trials ravaging the town.  This is purely for the good of the people."

So your dude is ok with famine and miscarriage? What does "this" refer to?

Wait, was there a carpenter here?  I may have apprenticed my sons to you.

NQT claimed journeyman carpenter, but "a journeyman could not employ others." I'm assuming "employ" also extends to apprenticeships since its not explicitly stated.

ZU, you seem unnaturally aggressive in your post directed at ONR. You wrote a single short post beforehand, and now you went and quoted four separate passages from Okami, ignoring everyone else. Isn't it too early to be tunneling?

Why are you conflating tunneling and leaving RVS?

I meant that I was being aggressive also to leave RVS. I don't think I'm tunneling.

Deathsword:

Griff, what happens if you try to drown a witch?

Well, in my experience, and assuming that they're only tied up and weighted, they get dropped in the lake and then proceed to untie their knots.  After they get undone, they have to swim underwater for a while until they find some reeds to breathe through to avoid being seen by the idiots attempting to drown a witch.
Why did you ask this question?

Hey I did the exact same thing only one post above yours. What a coincidence.

[Vector]

Oh, right.  Maybe all three have the same master, then.

[Lenglon]

sigh

Oh, sorry, I thought you would have read the wiki link you sent me.  Doctor Moreau was a butcher of a scientist (a vivisectionist, to be specific) who experimented with giving animals human intelligence.  That sort of role sounds like it would be appropriate for this game.

I did read it, I'm waiting for you to draw a mafia-related conclusion from your train of thought. Vector: what does that mean, as pertaining to a mafia game?

So... you think that I'm chainsawing, basically.

nope, I think you're wasting time with a pointless (loaded to the brim with WIFOM) line of questioning.

Otherwise your claim goes to "I decided to pay attention to those who haven't left RVS left because what they're doing might be more interesting."  Either way, this is absurd.

to be quite blunt, watching the people who haven't left RVS is more interesting to me than watching everyone jump on a circular logic train.

Vector: why would your flavor specifically name typhoid when mine simply says "the plague" when it plays a major role in my past?

Gee Lenglon, I don't know.  Maybe your character is less educated than mine.

Vector: why would your flavor specifically name typhoid when mine simply says "the plague" when it plays a major role in my past?

Typhoid != the plague

...
unvote

I don't, I think you're attacking Dariush for attacking ZU for attacking ONR for attacking NQT. (assuming i haven't mixed up someone in that paranoia dodecahedron.)

This is kinda a stretch. Do you think NQT is scum also?

I think the logic train as a whole is stupid and want to avoid being dragged into it. You're all jumping on each other for jumping on each other, and I see no reason to join in.

[ToonyMan]

"I wish for a peaceful place, and do not want witch-trials ravaging the town.  This is purely for the good of the people."

So your dude is ok with famine and miscarriage? What does "this" refer to?

I don't think my character was even aware of such famine and miscarriage actually taking place.  When he heard news of the Inquistors he was shocked and came down at once.

I don't understand what you mean by this.  Blame my writing skills if that's the case.  I wanted to respond in-character.

[Vector]

Lenglon, at this point you really seem deliberately obtuse.

[Teneb]

PFP

ZU and NQT

Deathsword:

Griff, what happens if you try to drown a witch?

Well, in my experience, and assuming that they're only tied up and weighted, they get dropped in the lake and then proceed to untie their knots.  After they get undone, they have to swim underwater for a while until they find some reeds to breathe through to avoid being seen by the idiots attempting to drown a witch.
Why did you ask this question?

Hey I did the exact same thing only one post above yours. What a coincidence.
[/quote]
As can be seen from the [/montypythonreference] in the post that followed the quoted part above, it was a joke RVS question, made merely to reference the "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" movie. I thought I made that clear when I posted that, apparently not.

[Okami No Rei]

Unvote

Dariush

Oooh, let me guess how it goes. Either he answers yes and you accuse him of being an SK if there's a kill or he answers no and you accuse him of being an SK if there's no kill. If the opposite happens, you claim he's a SK intentionally doing the opposite of what he said he would. Am I right? Aw, you know I am right, don't you.

You're wrong.  The question is hypothetical.  Why do you have trouble separating hypothetical questions from rolefishing?

What information did you hope to extract from his answer?

It's the exact same style question I asked zombie urist, and for the exact same reason I already gave him.

The question is less about the answer, and more about seeing how he thinks about the answer.  What I don't want is an automatic "Yes" or "No".  I want him to give it some thought, then answer the questions with his answer, and a few lines about how he arrived at the answer.


notquitethere

"Sûrement, Monsieur Fleury. I previously addressed everyone and zen you, and so was waiting for the answer from my first question before following up with a vote de pression.

Why wait for an answer before voting?

I had a further question. If you are an apprentice do you have a master here in the town?"

Yes.  My master and I live here in town.  At present, he is out of town making a delivery.

"Monsuiers! You must surely know by now what kind of situation we are in. Wanting to know the names and professions of our neighbours is essentiel to our investigations. Do you even want to find witches?"

You misunderstand my question.  I'm not asking you why you think it's a good idea for everyone to soft-claim.  I want to know why you thought it was a pro-town move to soft-claim in your first post of the game, and call out everyone else to do the same, rather than simply start the discussion on the possibility of soft-claiming, and letting us reach a consensus before doing so.

Okami No Rei: I don't see how you can call something you regard as a pro-town action scummy.  It just doesn't make sense from an honest perspective, and I'm pretty sure you were just hedging your bets as to whether the town would go along with the flavour claim or not.

There are three separate threads here that you are muddling together.

First:  The idea that everyone should soft-claim name and profession.

I agree with this.  I believe it is a pro-town move, since, as Toaster said, we're likely to have a town flavor cop, and it forces scum to either stand out as dissenters, lie, or give up some of their information.

Second:  NQT claiming, and calling out everyone to claim in his first post.

I find this to be potentially scummy, and he still hasn't given me a satisfactory explanation for why he thinks what he did was pro-town.  I would have preferred holding off on the soft-claim until the majority of the town was behind it, in order to maximize the pressure on scum to go along with it.

Third:  My choice to soft-claim at the same time as I called out NQT.

This was damage control.  The only way a soft-claim has power as a potential weapon against scum is through pressure from a united town.  NQT hurt that potential power by claiming so early.  I threw my own weight behind it in order to restore some of its strength, hopefully start a snowball effect, and to try to curtail the inevitable arguments against soft-claiming, which scum could easily hide behind if they needed to.


zombie urist

ONR's post was pretty scummy and I didn't notice anyone else being scummy. Also I hoped to kick the game out of RVS.

That's strange.  When you voted me without explanation, I assumed it was an RVS vote.  Now you say you found my post scummy.  Would you please point out which parts, and explain why you found them so?

Dunno. Why didn't you choose not to answer the question when NQT asked instead of being intentionally vague?

Those were two different questions.

NQT asked how long I'd lived in town.  My flavor did not specify whether the place I grew up was actually in town or not.  I've clarified this with LNCP, and can now say that yes, I have lived in town all my life.

You asked me where I grew up.  That information is linked to my role, and I choose not to roleclaim at this time.

First part sounds like a BS excuse. Yes.

Both your previous response and this one speak volumes about how you think about the game, and have greatly improved my mental model of you as a player.

I meant that I was being aggressive also to leave RVS. I don't think I'm tunneling.

Don't beat around the bush.  You were tunneling me.  You claim you did it to end RVS, but while that is an acceptable reason  (I've done that myself), it is not on its own sufficient reason.  What I be sufficient reason is if you believe that I am scum, but I've yet to see your case against me.  Just what I thought was an RVS vote coupled with a few of what seemed like RVS questions.

So, do you have an actual case against me to justify the tunneling?  If so, let's hear it.

If not, what reason do you have to justify tunneling me?


griffinpup

Whether I'd NK or not would depend on multiple factors, and the alignment of D1's lynchee would be one of those variables, yes.

Out of curiosity, could you come up with a hypothetical situation, now matter how outrageous or unlikely (provided it's supported by known game mechanics), in which your decision whether or not to kill would be made prior to considering the alignment of the lynchee?

[Okami No Rei]

EBWOP

Don't beat around the bush.  You were tunneling me.  You claim you did it to end RVS, but while that is an acceptable reason  (I've done that myself), it is not on its own sufficient reason.  What would be sufficient reason is if you believe that I am scum, but I've yet to see your case against me.  Just what I thought was an RVS vote coupled with a few of what seemed like RVS questions.

Out of curiosity, could you come up with a hypothetical situation, no matter how outrageous or unlikely (provided it's supported by known game mechanics), in which your decision whether or not to kill would be made prior to considering the alignment of the lynchee?

[griffinpup]

Okami:

griffinpup

Whether I'd NK or not would depend on multiple factors, and the alignment of D1's lynchee would be one of those variables, yes.

Out of curiosity, could you come up with a hypothetical situation, now matter how outrageous or unlikely (provided it's supported by known game mechanics), in which your decision whether or not to kill would be made prior to considering the alignment of the lynchee?

Ya. That's easy.  The person who is lynched claims before being lynched.  This makes the alignment shown upon flipping irrelevant.
Deathsword:

PFP

ZU and NQT

Deathsword:

Griff, what happens if you try to drown a witch?

Well, in my experience, and assuming that they're only tied up and weighted, they get dropped in the lake and then proceed to untie their knots.  After they get undone, they have to swim underwater for a while until they find some reeds to breathe through to avoid being seen by the idiots attempting to drown a witch.
Why did you ask this question?

Hey I did the exact same thing only one post above yours. What a coincidence.

As can be seen from the [/montypythonreference] in the post that followed the quoted part above, it was a joke RVS question, made merely to reference the "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" movie. I thought I made that clear when I posted that, apparently not.

So, Deathsword, you have posted three times since this game started.  Your first post was to ask three RVS questions, one of which is apparently a joke.  Your second and third are merely answering RVS questions.

Why did you only ask two REAL RVS questions? 
What is your thorough opinion on RVS as a whole?
Why haven't you built a semblance of a case or voted yet?