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[Morrigi]

If we lengthened the tank chassis, removed some armor, and mounted two or three heavy machine guns instead of a heavy weapon we would have a cheaper APC still capable of defending itself against light armor of the time. I propose that the vehicle, if produced, be named the Chimera.

EDIT: Brood, there is a reason that APCs of the era were lightly armed. We cannot fit 16 troops and a heavy weapons system into even a modified tank chassis without it starting to look like a schoolbus, with combat ability to match. The first true IFV was not mass-produced until the 1960s and only carried 8 passengers. This vehicle was the BMP-1.

[Brood]

You can fit more but it's a little tight, but the idea was an APC that can fight a tank otherwise it's suicide to use it for rapid response.

But I'll edit it when I get home. Mesor work me out a tank destroyer I'm gonna need it to pair with the APC.

[3_14159]

I read the thread until here, and it was really, really interesting. Let me weigh in with a few modifications and proposals.

15, I propose a larger variant of the badger keeping it's double engines and heavier slanted armor while extending the rear compartment to enable it to contain 16 men, it should also have gun slits on both sides to enable men inside to fire out but have an armored window that can be latched into place to block the slits when required and have a tow bar on the back.

It should be designed to have 3 different main weapons, the standard badger cannon, the hydra badgers guns or a heavy flamethrower naming the 3 units the Badger IFV, the Hydra IFV and the Leviathan IFV.

Counterproposal 15.1: Design an Multipurpose Armored Car, with the following priorities:
- Main driver's cabin armored against small-arms fire
- Engine power to enable it towing a fairly heavy load, plus a coupling.
- Probably half-tracked to allow it traversing rough terrain while retaining a fair amount of speed.
- If possible without too much cost, add a short-range radio to all of them.
- Concentrate on cost cutting!

The idea is for the MAC to form the basis for several variants, for example APC or armored gun tow vehicle. It is as cheap as possible, foregoing all protection against tanks and will need to operate in a tank-less environment. Why? Well, if it meets any enemy tanks with own tanks near them, either the enemy doesn't shoot at them, then it doesn't matter, or they do, and can't shoot the tanks. Of course, it can't kill tanks by itself, but without AT rockets, that's pretty much a given. If it meets tanks alone, unless they're equally armed (and remember, this thing transports an additional eight soldiers) it's dead.




Variant 15.1.1: On the MAC, design an armored personnel carrier, designated MAC-A:
- Add a compartment or up to eight soldiers and their gear, armored all around except bottom against small arms fire. Add a door to allow embarking ideally in the back, possibly firing slits.
- Add one the Patriot machine guns on there. Try mounting it in a similarly armored turret
- Again, costs and simplicity are important.

The thought is for this to deploy a half-squad in a tank-less environment, and provide suppression fire for the half-squad. Cheap as possible.

Variant 15.1.2 On the MAC chassis, design a lighter armed APC, designated MAC-B:
- Add a compartment or up to eight soldiers and their gear, armored all around except top and bottom against small arms fire. Add a door to allow embarking ideally in the back, possibly firing slits. Top open, with a net to be hooked in.
- Add a single Patriotism machine gun, mounted with a firing shield.
- Need I mention costs?


Basically the same as above but cheaper and lighter.


Variant 15.1.3: Field Gun Carrier, designated MAC-C:
- Add an unarmored compartment for a gun crew (maybe 4-6 people), and ammo storage for the gun.
- Add a shielded Patriotism MG.

Use to tow field guns on the field, then stay near them and provide ammo storage and (once counter battery fire gets in) provide quick relocation. MG for self-defense.


For later: Self-propelled AT gun, Mac-D:
- Once the 40mm AT gun finishes, try mounting it on the chassis fixed forward.
Possibly a cheap, mobile AT gun design. Not yet done, but let's wait until the AT gun is finished.

The whole point is building something like the SdKfz. 251 or the M3 series: Transport infantry, provide a bit of fire support and do some other roles like transporting. While using a standardized system for all of these will be tactically worse, it also provides us the ability to produce the basis in a single factory, while every peasant with a hammer can mount the mods and they are easy to design. So, cheaper, lightens logistical load and can be modified better.
I vote to set our best engineer on the MAC chassis (15.1), as that'll probably the most used platform of our military if the proposal gets through. Possibly after the tank is finished.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

I kinda like the above, but yet again: We have a limited number of engineers and need to finish those heavy tank ( Still sure that we don't really need it, Badgers are adequate for all tasks, while we are seriously underpowered  in artillery, navy, airforce, recon, fortifications, air defense, transportation... But people here consider  preparing for possible enemy "KV-1s" as more important. )

[Brood]

Looks good other then it carries less people and has almost no fire power and horribly weak armor....

U R your a broken record, we think 1 thing we think another get over it and stop repeating it in every message.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

APCs don't need firepower that much, because they are transports, not combat vehicles.
Also you fail to understand that armor and firepower are not the only characteristics that important.
Cost, reliability, speed (cruise, not max), all terrain ability, serviceability, fuel efficiency, running cost, universality, stealth, vision, safety and many others are more important on strategical scale

[Brood]

I hear a wind blowing from Ukrain....

Now onto more productive things.
Thank you the two of you with counter ideas, I'll modify my idea to include the strengths from yours when I get home and of course give all credit to the two of you, I think I have the right idea now to get what I wanted with less work.

[Funk]

Let the engineers give the SMG another try, but use the 9mm short cartridge from our earlier pistol, and reduce magazine size to 30-40 round drum/stick mags.

6. Apply improvements to existing products, and make use of trophy carbines for the army when possible/needed.

8. Apply spare workers to churning out SVA-10s and the like, but airforce and navy take precedence.

i vote for these.

id of liked  a 8mm SMG to save on the barrel making tools (why do you think russan used 7.62 for everything?)
Still a mild 9x25 loading should give use a good 400 meters per second, with a 8 gram bullet, about as good as .45ACP but with better range.
 

i vote for a counter proposal against 13, we do have a good 14mm round lets use it, we have a gap from 14 to 40mm, a 25mm autocannon is what we need

[Nadaka]

This is taking longer than I thought, but I should only have to do it once. Note that I am still going back to compile the design list.


This is the remainder of the yesterdays partial update.

This is a partial update:
...

This is the remainder of yesterdays partial update.

On the agenda for this years production are Righteous PT boats, expand the shipyard up to at least 2000 tons and as a slightly lower priority Hydra AA vehicles.

Righteous PT boats: 54 novice workers. 60 workers, 16 experienced workers and your veteran worker set themselves to building Righteous PT boats at the portion of your ship yard not under construction. 53 Righteous PT boats slide off the ramp on this production run. There may have been a few mistakes made by workers, but it should not affect more than 2 of them.

Badgers: 54 novice workers, 30 workers, 8 experienced workers,
80 novice workers are assigned to the task of expanding our shipyard, they manage to expand it by 700 tons to a max of 2300 tons. 48 badgers roll off the factory floor in this first production run.


At your disposal:
6 experienced engineers
29 engineers
14 novice engineers
1 experienced aviation engineer
1 veteran worker
36 experienced workers
114 workers
148 novice workers

A new brick office
A large flat field, suitable for use as a runway.
An old partially bombed out wharf with:
1 operational dockyard up to a displacement of 2300 tons (large enough for frigates)
3 warehouses converted to a small factory/machine shop.
Several cleared lots
Various damaged or destroyed structures that are of no use at this time.

Your nations military manufacturing:
1 factory producing Mosin Nagants with upgraded ring sights
2 factories recently retooled for the Badger Mk2
1 factory producing 40mm hopper fed guns for towable guns
1 factory producing 40mm improved feed guns (mostly supplying the Badger Mk2 factories)
1 factory producing 170kw gas engines (mostly supplying the Badger Mk2 factories)
1 factory producing 80mm low velocity guns.
1 factories producing Patriotism Mk1 water cooled machine guns
1 factories producing Patriotism Mk2 air cooled machine guns

recently completed:
1 factory producing biplanes
1 factory producing air cooled Patriotism Mk2 air cooled machine guns

Under construction:
1 factory producing 320mm coastal defense guns
Allocation of an 800 ton boat yard to the production of Righteous PT boats

Current disposition of forces:
Infantry:
~25000 veteran infantry
~10000 infantry (minimal combat experience)
~20000 novice infantry (no  combat experience)
Standard Issue Equipment
Armor: woolen winter long coat + open steel helmet
Primary Weapon: Mosin Nagant with improved ring sights
Secondary Weapon: bayonet

~3000 Patriotism mk1 water cooled machine guns
~2100 Patriotism mk2 air cooled machine guns

~300 special forces
Armor: woolen winter long coat + open steel helmet
Primary weapon: varies
Secondary weapon: varies
10 14mm sniper rifles
30 9mm pistols
30 shotguns
30 SVA-10
~2000 captured 6mm carbines


Armor & Artillery:
333 40mm towable cannons
160 Badger Tanks (diesel)
216 Badger Tanks (gas)
48 Hydra
163 80mm medium cannons
1 320mm coastal defense cannon


Air Force:
20 recon balloons
380 fighter biplanes

Naval:
2 Glorious Cruisers
3 Popular Devotion Destroyers/Support ships
53 Righteous PT boats

Spoiler: Designs of 1920 (click to show/hide)

Mosin Nagant
Bolt action rifle
Cartridge: 8x54mm
Total length: 1230mm
Barrel length: 730mm
Magazine: 5 rounds of 8x54mm internal box with charger guide (can use stripper clips)
Note:actual 7.62 rounds are 7.92mm in diameter

8x54mm bullet
Strong Rifle Cartridge
Bullet: 8x20mm lead
Cartridge:12x54mm

Recon Balloon
A balloon filled by hydrogen that can be produced in the field by mixing two reagents in a reaction vessel. This balloon is big enough to lift one observer with a spyglass and a portable telegraph up to 500m in altitude for a duration of 24 hours. This balloon must be tethered.

Light cannon
The 40mm auto-cannon has a rate of fire of approximately 60 rounds per minute. It is fed by an open hopper capable of holding up to 10 rounds at a time. Its maximum elevation is limited to no more than 50 degrees, at which point the feed system becomes unreliable. It is typically crewed by 2 or 3 men. This is a low velocity gun with little armor penetration.

Medium Cannon
The 80mm cannon is the standard support cannon in the field and can be used for both direct and indirect fire. It has a maximum rate of fire around 12 rounds per minute. It is typically crewed by 3 to 5 men. This is a low velocity gun with little armor penetration.

Heavy Cannon
The 160mm cannon is the largest cannon your country currently fields and is primarily used for bombardment and naval warfare. It has a maximum rate of fire near 3 rounds per minute. It is typically crewed by a dozen men. This is a medium velocity gun without significant armor penetration.

40x300mm shell
Light cannon cartridge
Bullet: 40x80mm lead
Cartridge: 50x300mm

80x600mm shell
medium cannon cartridge
Bullet: 80x150mm lead
Cartridge: 100x600mm

1600x900mm shell
heavy cannon cartridge
Bullet: 160x300mm lead
Cartridge: 200x900mm

Glorious Cruiser (Armored Cruiser)
Length: 100m (328ft)
Displacement:4000 metric tons (3937 long tons)
Propulsion: 6mW (8000hp)
Speed: 37 km/h
Armor: 120mm 5.2 meter tall band
Crew: 320
Armament:
4 160x900mm cannon armored turrets
8 80x600mm cannon turrets
8 40x300mm auto-cannon air defense
60 2 ton mines

Tonnage Allocations:
1200 tons steam propulsion (1 ton = 5kw)
1000 tons cruiser parts
1000 tons armor belt (Density of steel plate ~8g/cm3 giving 125million cubic cm of armor, or enough for 2 100 meter long, 120mm thick, 5.2 meter tall bands)
400 tons main 160mm cannons (100 tons each including turrets/ammunition)
200 tons secondary 80mm cannons (25 tons each including turrets/ammunition)
40 tons tertiary 40mm cannons (5 tons each including turrets/ammunition)
40 tons mine laying equipment
120 tons of mines

Popular Devotion Destroyer
Length: 50m (164ft)
Displacement: 227 metric tons (223 long tons)
Propulsion: 1mW (1333p)
Speed: 41 km/h
Armor: negligible
Crew: 40
Armament:
1 80x600mm cannon turret
4 40x300mm auto-cannon turrets
4 2 ton torpedo tubes with 2 reloads each

Tonnage Allocations:
50 tons diesel propulsion (1 ton = 20kw)
100 tons destroyer parts
25 tons primary cannon
20 tons secondary cannons
12 tons of torpedo systems
24 tons of torpedo

Spoiler: Designs of 1921 (click to show/hide)

40mm towable cannon
Little more than a 40mm low velocity cannon mounted on a pair of truck axels with manually deployed jacks for stability. This is an inexpensive mobile artillery piece towable by horse, truck or tank. Its been tested in combat with few failures.

Patriotism Machine Gun
Cartridge: 8x54mm
Overall Length: 1.5m
Barrel Length: 1m water cooled
Magazine: belt fed
Weight: 30kg
Rate of Fire: 400 rounds per minute sustainable as long as cool water is available.
Special: unusually reliable

The first truly original weapon designed by your fledgling nation the Patriotism machine gun has proven itself to be a rugged and effective weapon capable of almost unlimited sustained fair. It is battle tested and proven to be effective against personel at long ranges and against aircraft at short ranges. While light enough to be transported and crewed by 1 man, it is typically operated by two for easy of transport and carryinf extra belts of ammunition. It is fired from a portable tripod or fixed mounts on vehicles or buildings.

Unreliable Frag grenade
100 grams TNT
4ish second fuse.
Never demonstrated to the military due to detonating in a timeframe of 0 to 8 seconds.

The Peoples little friend
semi-auto double action pistol
Barrel Length: 10cm
Magazine: removable box single stack of 8 rounds of 9x25mm (in handle)

Certainly not the worlds best handgun, but it has no glaring flaws. It first saw limited use in the final battle that resulted in Morovian retreat from our shores. It proved to be useful once the infrantry engaged the enemy in their defensive trenches where the Mosin Nagant was unsuitable for close combat. As of yet, it has not become standard issue among our troops, but the original production run is available for use by our special forces for circumstances when a full sized rifle is to unwieldy.

9x25mm cartridge
Bullet: 9x12mm
Cartridge:10x25mm
A medium power pistol cartridge used by The Peoples little Friend. Effective, but unremarkable.

Spoiler: Designs of 1922 (click to show/hide)

Badger Tank
Weight: 15 tons
Length: 4.5m
Width: 2.5m
Height: 2m
Speed: up to 48km/h in ideal terrain
Body Armor: 15cm back and sides, 20mm frontal sloped at 42 degrees
Turret Armor: 15cm back and sides, 20mm frontal sloped at 42 degrees
Armament: 1 40mm cannon Badger variant, 1 coaxial Patriotism, 1 patriotism mounted above the commanders hatch


The first armor design of your nation, and rather ahead of its time. The hopper fed mechanism of the auto-cannon could not be adapted to the badgers turret, so the hopper was removed and a slide block was put in place so that each shell is loaded manually resulting in a reduced rate of fire. In demonstrations it proved reliable and was capable of surviving a hit from its own cannon. If first saw combat in the first year of the Morovian war where its speed and armor were deciding factors in the conflict.

SVA-10
Semi-auto battle rifle
Cartridge: 8x54mm
Action: semi auto
Total length: 1300mm
Barrel length: 800mm
Magazine: 8 rounds of 8x54mm replacable external box

This weapon featured improve ring sights that greatly increased accuracy at medium ranges, a feature that has since been retrofitted onto most of our Mosin Nagant rifles as well. Its ballistic qualities are just as good as the Nagant and it provides a much better rate of fire. It first saw limited use in the in the final battle that resulted in Morovian retreat from our shores. In that battle, its higher rate of fire proved useful in the close quarters combat, even if it remains a bulky weapon. As of yet, it has not become standard issue among our troops, but the original production run is available for use by our special forces, some of whom have fitted telescopic sights to them for use as sniper weapons.


Unnamed
Shotgun
Cartridge: 12 guage
Action: pump
Magazine: 4 internal tube
Barrel: smoothbore 400mm
Overal Length: 650mm

It first saw limited use in the in the final battle that resulted in Morovian retreat from our shores. In that battle, its small size and devastating firepower proved useful in close quarters combat. As of yet, it has not become standard issue among our troops, but the original production run is available for use by our special forces for circumstances when a full sized rifle is to unwieldy.

1923 war with Morovia begins with results to our favor.

Spoiler: Designs of 1923 (click to show/hide)

Timed fuse shell
An accurate timed fuse shell capable of detonating an explosive shell close to a preset altitude, improves the use of 40mm and 80mm shells for use against aircraft.

First saw use in the second year of the Morovian war where they allowed us to stave off the constant harrasment of our forces by Morovian biplane fighter/bombers, which had otherwise blocked our continued advancement.

40mm Cannon Mk2
An update to the feed mechanism of the 40mm cannon allowing it to fire at any angle. this modification allowed the use of spring loaded box magazines that corrected the flaws of both the original hopper and the badger variant of the gun.
Used in towable guns, a 10 round magazine increased allowable elevation at the cost of slightly lower overall rate of fire due to reload times. Making it more effective when used against aircraft.

PT boat
Work began on what would later be called the Righteous PT boat. This early design proved flawed in a number of ways and never entered production. The prototype was never deployed in the field.

1924 war with Morovia enters a stalemate as Morovian air superiority prevents advancement.

Spoiler: Designs of 1924 (click to show/hide)

Aviation/multi-purpose engine
Weight: 300kg
Power: 170 kW (230hp)

This inline 6 cylinder 4 stroke gas engine has a higher power to weight ration than any of your current designs.

Placed in a prototype Badger, it increased speed to aproximately 52km/h.

A pair placed in the prototype PT boat, cut wieght by 5 tons and increased speed to aproximately 44km/h (+/- 4km/h depending on loading)

This engine later became the basis of our first aircraft.

40mm standard AP shell
A 40mm shell for use in our low velocity cannons with improved AP potential. A solid steel projectile combined with a 10% higher powder charge produced a weapon 25% more effective against armor than the previous round. Not as good as a high velocity cannon, but better by any account. This shell first saw combat in the final battle that pushed the Morovians from our shores, it worked well against the thin armor of the morovian tank destroyers, however a small number of towable gun trailers where destroyed by the overpressure.

Stinger
14mm sniper/anti-material rifle
action: single shot bolt
cartridge: 14x100mm
Sights: ring or telescopic
Barrel length: 1.3m

This weapon features high velocity and armor piercing capability, that in the hands of a dedicated Marxman can damage or disable an enemy light armor vehicle with a well placed shot. It first saw limited use in the battle that pushed the Morovians from our shores. It did not prove critical to the close quarters infantry battle at the Morovian defensive line. Its original production run remains available to our special forces when they need something that packs more range and punch than a typical battle rifle.

14mm round
Bullet:14x20mm
Cartridge: 20x100mm

Patriotism Mk2
Air cooled machine gun
Weight: 15kg

This variant features a heavy replacable air cooled barrel and reduced weight. Not as ideal for sustained fire, it makes a more portable option for use by infantry and aircraft.

40mm high velocity cannon
This project has not been completed and a prototype has not been produced.

1925 the siege of our forces ends as our aircraft push the enemy back and allow our tanks to capture their nearest airfield.

Spoiler: Designs of 1925 (click to show/hide)

Unamed
Biplane fighter
Wingspan: 11m
Weight: 1200kg
Armament: 2 air cooled Patriotism 8mm machine guns with interrupter gears.
Crew: 1
Speed: 230 km/h

The frame consists of lightweight aluminum struts with an aluminum skin on the body with fabric over wooden frame wings that are staggered for reduced drag and flexibility, an enclosed cockpit provides for even less drag. This aircraft uses the 170kw gas engine developed the previous year. It was created by a crash engineering and production effort, and it saw service by the end if the year. It was critical in the final battle that pushed the Morovians from our shores by lifting the enemies air superiority long enough to allow the Badger armored division of aproximately 200 tanks to capture the enemy battle field.


Patriotism Mk3
Further engineering reduces the weight of the Air Cooled Patriotism MG to 10kg. This is as light as it can get without sacrificing reliability or moving to a less powerful cartridge.

Hydra
Badger tank variant
The Hydra is essentially a variant of the gas powered badger that replaces the 40mm turret with an electrically powered turret mounting quad water cooled Patriotism machine guns. The powered turret allows easier and faster tracking of fast moving targets, making it capable of remaining on target against low flying aircraft.

1926: the Morovians build up their forces.

Spoiler: Designs of 1926 (click to show/hide)

8mm unpredictable SMG
Action: recoil operated full auto (extremely full auto).
Total Length: 600mm
Barrel Length: 250mm
Magazine: 30 rounds of 8mm shorts in an unreliable spring loaded drum

The first prototype simply exploded even with a half sized charge of powder. The second one using a much less powerful round will more often than not empty its entire magazine even if you let go of the trigger, and that is if the drum magazine could keep enough tension in its spring to feed reliably. And the round will not always penetrate heavy winter clothing.

8mm short
Bullet:8x8mm
Cartridge: 8x20mm


320 ton coastal defense cannon
Solid bullet: 1 ton
High explosive bullet: 500kg
Charge: up to 150kg of powder
Length: 12m
Weight: 70 tons (displaces 120 tons with turret and ammunition)
Maximum Range: 20,000m

Heavy tank testbed
An attempt to produce a larger and more powerful tank goes uncompleted. The current state of the prototype allows testing of the suspension and drive train, but the final configuration of the armor and turret is not available. This testbed carries 2 170kw gas engines and a compless transmission that may be prone to wear.

Frigate design
An unfinished design for a more advanced ship to bridge the gap between our cruisers and the smaller gunboats in the fleet.

Projected features:
Weight: 1000tons
Length: 80m
Propulsion: 4mw diesel
Crew: 120
Speed: 44km/h
Armor: 70mm band up to 4.4m tall
Armament:
2 double 80mm turrets
4 double 40mm turrets
4 hydra turrets
2 to 4 torpedo tubes

Righteous PT boat
Having worked out most of the issues with the powerplant and disembarking hatch for deploying troops to shore, the Righteous PT boat design is finalized and begins construction.

Length: 20m
Displacement: 23 metric tons
Propulsion: 340kw
Speed: 44km/h (up to 48km/h without mines and torpedo's)
Crew: 10
Armament:
1 40x300mm auto-cannon
4 Patriotism 8mm machine guns.
2 torpedo tubes
2 mines
Special: can carry up to 10 tons of cargo or 20 fully armed soldiers and their supplies (max speed 40km/h when fully loaded).
Special: has a forwards water tight hatch that can be dropped to rapidly disembark soldiers onto a beach.

[tryrar]

Ok, looks like we need to definitely get the army to built an independent small-arms factory, so we don't have to manually order all the various new weapons our troops need. in fact:

16)Petition government to set up another factory tooled to produce small arms

[3_14159]

I'll add a single post detailing the differences between the MAC and the Badger IFV approach. I won't add any more, because I don't want it to devolve in a long discussion about the two.

The main difference is in priorities. For me, an APC should fulfil a single role: Transport soldiers to the front and give them firing support.
Of course, weighing has to be done. For the MAC, I prioritized the first role, transporting, higher than the second. In addition, firing support would only be given against infantry, at least in the standard vehicle. The Badger IFV, instead, provides firing support against both infantry and tanks, plus infantry transport, with the emphasis on the former.
From a one-on-one aspect, the Badger is clearly superior. It transports more infantry, and is better armed. However, that will be bought with higher weight and higher costs.
Weight is, of course, a problem due to the square/cube law, which will mean worse handling of heavier vehicles. (Bridges and so on will currently hold everything).
Cost, too. According to a source I found comparing the prices for the Sdkfz 251 and the Panzer II, the panzer would be more expensive by a factor between two and three, so let's say three to four for the modifications and more armor and so on. This'd mean a decrease in troop transport capacity per cost of 25 to 50 percent.

The different doctrines when using the MAC-A and Badger IFV:
MAC-A: Support the infantry against other infantry when no tank is present, rely on tanks, hand-held infantry weapons or AT guns against tanks.
Badger IFV: Directly support the infantry.

Therefore, as far as I see it, the advantages and disadvantages of each proposal:
Badger IFV:
+ Can fight against current tanks on its own
+ Higher personnel capacity per vehicle
+ armored against current tanks.
- Higher Costs per vehicle
- Less transport space per cost
- heavier

MAC-A
+ Cheaper and shares a common platform with possible other vehicles
+ More transport space per cost
+ armored against small arms fire
- Needs to work together with tanks

I hope I haven't forgotten any other points in that comparison. (And sorry for missing 't's, my key seems to be stuck)

[Brood]

The main problem I have with your design is armor.
Even a medium with AP round will chew the armor to pieces.

But I'll post my new ideas when I'm not on a phone in 40 mins or so.

[Nadaka]

...

finished compiling the tech list, the only other edit I made is to split the governments 2 Patriot factories in 2, 1 for the water cooled, 1 for the air cooled.

Also looks like I missed the hydra somehow.

On the topic of voting against? Everything already requires at least 3 people to support it, the original proposer, and 2 votes. We have only had 2 or 3 things come through with 5 people supporting it. And 4 is rare enough that it hasn't happened every turn. Allowing a vote against means that one person can stop more than half of all proposals. If you don't like something, you can offer a counter proposal. If more people prefer it over the original? You get your way.

[tryrar]

Guys, by my count it appears we haven't really agreed on any proposal due to not having the required votes for ANYTHING(except perhaps the Alexi, and that's only assuming that by adding an addendum to the proposal to finish it Doom supports the Alexi being built)

Edit: Scratch that, it appears the Alexi definitely has enough support, as well as for improving engines

Edit Edit: And since I'm switching my vote from 13 to 10.2, the 14mm machine gun now has enough votes to pass.

Also:I'm dropping my vote for 2. We can finish the heavy tank later, we need ships more

[Brood]

Revised 15,16. After some talk me and Mesor made up new designs, using our own and a few other peoples shamelessly stolen ( credit is given ) ideas.

15, Extend the frame of the badger enough to allow it to hold 12-16 soldiers in the rear hold, remove all primary weapon systems to add space, bolt 4 Patriotism Mk 3 onto the roof of the APC and add hatches to the roof of the APC behind those 4 guns, the guns are to be above the 2 seats closest to the driving compartment and 2 closest to the rear doors above the seats to allow passengers to stand on seats with the hatch open to operate the guns, the guns are to have armor forming a 3 sides box around the hatch while the hatch opens to cover the back to shield gunners.
Use the advanced design badger with 2 engines and heavier armor. Credit to Moeggi for adding heavy infantry weapons in place of the main guns to save space.

(( No primary weapon means it needs minamul extension and is also significantly cheaper, to produce, it lacks the firepower I wanted but it's simple enough to add better weapons to replace the machineguns later and until then 4 of them provides a 360 degree field of fire from 4 weapons providing a lot of fire support while mobile or stationary and it keeps the heavy armor to enable it to operate in areas with enemy armor. ))

16, SPIA ( Self proppeled indirect artillery. ) Design a halftrack with front wheels and rear tracks, add an armored roof that can be withdrawn to the sides of the rear compartment to provide cover while mobile and additional armor when in use.
Attach an indirect firing artillery piece that can be adjusted to a high enough angle to use against aircraft also make it capable of firing a 160 mm HE shell and a 160mm varient of the 40mm AA time fused shell. Credit to Mesor for the artillery and Elfeater for the Halftrack idea.

(( We have the shell size already so no new size to create, we have no mobile artillery everything needs to be dragged into position which takes time for transport and more to set up, this can move at speeds near that of the badger on it's own and has armor as well, enabling us to move large numbers of artillery into position, use them then move out again in a far far shorter length of time then anything else we've got, it also does enough damage to knock out a tank and though it's not built for it, it can at a stretch provide atleast some AA fire. In some situations it may be useful I suppose for AA. ))





+1 to these.

5. Have our aerospace engineer, along with a novice or two, experiment with single-wing style airframes. (Yes, monoplanes.)

1.1. Ensure that the Alexi has four torpedo tubes, to ensure maximum anti-ship firepower.

Let the engineers give the SMG another try, but use the 9mm short cartridge from our earlier pistol, and reduce magazine size to 30-40 round drum/stick mags.

6. Apply improvements to existing products, and make use of trophy carbines for the army when possible/needed.

7. Further improve engine. (Happens before 6 if approved.)

8. Apply spare workers to churning out SVA-10s and the like, but airforce and navy take precedence.

9. Produce more planes.