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[WillowLuman]

I am almost positive that we discussed the whithers thing months ago, to be fair. That doesn't negate the fact that we have missed a lot.

I think the werewolf deserves quite a bit more thought and discussion by the way. If it is Imare, my suspicion is that LB might be using her as an avatar for Azura, or perhaps a pony with quite a bit more control over Michael than the others. Read the werewolf part again, she literally can read Michael's "thoughts", or text thinking. Deathgrip, puppy dog eyes, and I think at least one other thing. Also, this pretty much confirms that Michael is related to the ponies in some way, as she seems connected with Maximus and Michael.

The interesting thing is that she mentioned a "Vulcan nerve grip", and seemed to be arguing with herself. I don't think she can read our thoughts. She only mentioned the voices, she didn't indicated that she knew what they are saying.

@Irony owl: I don't think you can assume that the voice at the start is anything right now. It could be Azura, or someone else entirely. The "We" thing could mean it was an actual group of entities. Bear in mind that we ourselves are voices, and often use "we" whether referring to ourselves or Michael. Did we kidnap Michael? If you want to look at it like Vivec, he is here because of us, in a meta way.

[syvarris]

((Warning: massive post with zero proofreading.  Sorry ))

I don't know why y'all think that Fluttershy wouldn't not care about the denizens of Morrowind. To her, they're just pixels on a screen. S'not like I feel any compunction about slaughtering thousands of babby Scouts in TF2. At most, I might feel a little bit bad about the player if I'm particularly slaughtering him repeatedly, but I don't think that the little Boston bastard himself is getting hurt/exists meaningfully.

Granted, she might, because she cares about every damn thing, but to computer characters? Hell, I can see her going into it slaughtering everything as a game with "points", to let off steam so that she DOESN'T go into one of her horror-rages.

But FS is still a... emotional pony?  Empathy and stuff.  And Morrowind has a pretty engaging atmosphere.  SW has pretty much always been completely sociopathic and gamey, like someone who's playing a plotless FPS which is specifically made for you to kill things.  I would think FS would get at least somewhat interested in the world and atmosphere of Morrowind.  More than RD at any rate, and AM has shown to at least respect RP enough to act like an actual person.

Hence the constant "wait no maybe it's this one that's Rarity?" we've (well, mostly I've) been doing every time we get a bit more information. If you have a completely different pattern that better explains everything we've seen so far, feel free to bring it up.

As for where the rest are, I'd love to know too. We skipped the only event we suspect they were all together at, and haven't had much luck tracking them individually. Hell, three of the four you mentioned we only met because we were in the same faction spot as they were when they came around or were mentioned.

My personal opinion is that all the characters are wither original to LB, or are representative to different types of players.

Withers:    Powergamer who's probably going for a speedrun or something.  Or just enjoys leveling faster than everyone else.
Awesomicus: Escapist fantasy.
Clover:     Someone who enjoys the lore, and enjoys getting embroiled in the backstory
Adorabella: Roleplayer

Imare:      It fails here, admittedly.  Possibly a DM of sorts?  There were only four strongholds, so one for each player was built.  It would also explain how she knows Michael and can read the update text.


Other reasons that I don't think the pony theory is accurate:
I doubt LB would use it, for one.  All this game had when it began was "Morrowind!".  I'd be surprised if the real secret backstory involved ponies, because it's something that tends to polarize people.

At this point, most theories would work.  We have four certain PCs, and Imare, and we only really know the personalites of two of them (SW and AM).  Take any group of six or more characters, and you're likely to find two which fit those personalities, and the other personalities are vauge enough that you could fit many characters into them.

Order of the Stick:

Withers:    Belkar
Awesomicus: Roy
Clover:     Vaarsuvius
Adorabella: Haley (Although that doesn't work well.  Still, Withers doesn't fit a pony, so...)

Imare:      Elan

That's off the top of my head.  I could probably come up with a more fitting list, but eh.

Don't we have five out of the six? :/

No.  FS doesn't fit a character, aside from that Nord, but that Nord has never been seen or heard of otherwise, and LB did say there's red herrings.

IronyOwl comparing screenshots to see that the dunmer who walked out of the census office in Episode 5 has the same face and hair as the dunmer who slaughtered the guards in episode 44. That's information that's been avaialable to you for a long time, but nobody put it together until recently.

I thought we knew that already, although nobody explicitly compared the pictures.  We had already discussed it and decided that Balmora Butcher and Census PC were the same people.

Or, the realization that the withers is a part of a horse. The name SexyWithersXOXOXO was first mentioned in episode 40. That was August of last year. So it took ~8 months before somebody noticed that.

Again, I thought this was discussed earlier.  Certainly before that long hiatus that you just broke.

How many other things do you think are going on that also haven't noticed? Of course, I realize that's dangerous ground.  I'm well versed with the Law of Conservation of Detail and I've taken great pains to not fall for the trap of doing this:

GM: "You see two doors. One is beautifully crafted oak with an emerald handle containing a hint of mithril filigree and glowing runes."
Player: "What does the other door look like?"
GM: "Oh, it's just a door."
Player: "Gee, I wonder which we should go through."

My respect for your GMing capabilites is ever growing.

So, yes. Both some cackling and facepalming. You guys have a lot of information to work with and it's clearly not trivial to sort out the important information from the coincidences. And from the deliberate Red Herrings.

So, there's red herrings?  That hurts the pony theory more than it helps, IMO, because it uses several small, lone clues.  Like "withers".  Or that nord guy.

For example, that "dunmer sorceress and an orc" back from episode 26, part 1 were revealed in this most recent Episode 57 to have been Awesomicus and Clover.

I'm pretty sure the question of whether those people were other PCs was discussed.  People just decided that we didn't have any proof, so it would be a bad idea to make assumptions.

Ok, but according to a filesize to pages converter, Marooned in Morrowind is presently approximately a 480 page novel, not including pictures. It might not be realistic to casually ask them to come read it in one evening.

As much as my opinion's worth, I think this story is certainly as high-quality as a good novel, and has been well worth my time.

Crap, do we have anyone here who's Japanese or Japanese-fluent? _{Other than me, I mean.}

*Checks user stats page*
Huh.  You are japanese.  Never would have guessed.

Next you'll be saying you're not female.

All the pony speculation - has anything come of it? Anything at all? No. Does it matter? Not that we've had even a shred of evidence of so far.

This, this here.  Wonderful point.  That's probably one of the best arguments against the pony theory- it hasn't given us anything useful, and if we make assumptions on it that could end poorly.  If we assume withers is berserkershy, then maybe someone will come up with the bright idea to try and befriend her while she's murdering around, instead of running.

"Would you like to be my friend?"
"NO!" *stab*

[Araph]

OotS has some problems. First off, Roy is intelligent and significantly more empathetic than Awesomicus, Elan doesn't have a connection with pink or parties (or mind reading, for that matter), and so on.

The reason the ponies theory works is that the characters have shown mannerisms that exactly match what the protagonists of MLP would do: throwing parties with strangers, rolling on the ground laughing at their own jokes, peacefully interacting with otherwise hostile animals, and naming characters based off of admired historical figures (Clover).

[LordBucket]

do we have anyone here who's Japanese or Japanese-fluent

sukoshi hanashimasu demo dame desu ne. GM desu kara. yare yare. suiseiseki ga youni kikoeru desu. desu kara desu.

I think this story is certainly as high-quality as a good novel, and has been well worth my time.

Thank you.

[The_Jester]

Episode 57: Have our questions been answered, or did we just make more questions?


Out of nowhere a pair of massive furry arms envelop you from behind, holding you in a powerful deathgrip

: "Nuh-uh! The Vulcan Deathgrip isn't even real!"

...

: "I know! Rawwrrr!!!"

She closes her eyes, raises her paws and animatedly shakes her head back and forth when she says 'rawr.'

: "No, I didn't! 'Rawr' is 'I love you' in dinosaur. I said 'Rawwrrr!!!" which means 'I love you' in werewolf. They aren't even similar. By the way, how come you never told Eddie I said hello?"

...

It's difficult to tell through all the fur and fangs, but you think the werewolf is pouting and giving you puppy-dog eyes.

: "No, they're puppy-werewolf eyes! You really don't remember, do you? You didn't have another deja vue and forget everything did you? Well, if you did that's ok!"

Relevant quotes. In bold is Michael's thought that is directly contradicted in the following sentence. He thinks something, and she responds to the exact language of the thought with a contradiction. That is mind reading.

[GlyphGryph]

Or narration-reading.

[WillowLuman]

Yeah, she seems to be reading the narration rather than thoughts. Still pretty significant, though.

[Baffler]

I'm not a fan of the pony theory, either. Even if it was 100% correct, what do we get from it that simply knowing the characters as they are wouldn't?

Anyway, another person we should probably talk to at some point would be our old friend Vibius, now stationed in Wolverine Hall (as far as we know.) If he's still there he might be able to tell us something useful.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

During one such break after what seems like a few hours of instruction, a familiar face walks in.

: "Evening, Recruit."

: "Vibius! What brings you here?"

: "That's Patrolman Vibius, Recruit."

: "...err, sorry, sir."

: "Fortunately I'm not on duty."

: "Really? Is it Loredas already?"

: "No, it's Sundas. I go back on duty in a few hours."

You've been sitting in the barracks for 4 days? You're still not used to the time scale here. Granted, what you've been learning has been intellectually interesting, but if the goal was to get stronger, surely you could have found a better use for the time than sitting here in a barracks learning how to be a legionnaire for the empire.

: "My patrol is up, and I've been reassigned to Wolverine Hall near Sadrith Mora. It will be a while before they let you out, but I just thought I'd stop by and let you know."

: "Thanks."

: "See you around, Recruit."

He probably would have been a good person to ask about the trip to Tel Fyr, in hindsight.

[WillowLuman]

If he was there, I'm surprised we didn't bump into him while we were at Wolverine Hall.

[Araph]

what do we get from it that simply knowing the characters as they are wouldn't?

What do you get from reading the story? (I'm assuming entertainment, which is what I get from absurd and far-fetched theories being correct.)

More game-related, we would know exactly how to approach each one of them and what to expect from them.

[WillowLuman]

Except to confirm or deny it we'd have to approach them as they are anyway, without assuming them to be avatars of different characters.

[syvarris]

OotS has some problems. First off, Roy is intelligent and significantly more empathetic than Awesomicus, Elan doesn't have a connection with pink or parties (or mind reading, for that matter), and so on.

The reason the ponies theory works is that the characters have shown mannerisms that exactly match what the protagonists of MLP would do: throwing parties with strangers, rolling on the ground laughing at their own jokes, peacefully interacting with otherwise hostile animals, and naming characters based off of admired historical figures (Clover).

I'll admit that particular example is bad.  And that my biggest argument against ponies is "I dislike ponies". 

I really really want us to go through with showing a PC the t-shirt.

what do we get from it that simply knowing the characters as they are wouldn't?

What do you get from reading the story? (I'm assuming entertainment, which is what I get from absurd and far-fetched theories being correct.)

More game-related, we would know exactly how to approach each one of them and what to expect from them.

I get enjoyment from reading the story, but I'd lose a little of it if it turned out that the ponies theory is correct.  But that's just me, and I understand that people have the opposite opinion.

[WillowLuman]

Was our T-shirt at Caius' when he liquidated out stuff?

EDIT: Nope, it's in our backpack.

[IronyOwl]

I've noticed quite a bit that I haven't bothered mentioning because there's nothing to be gained from doing so.

All the pony speculation - has anything come of it? Anything at all? No. Does it matter? Not that we've had even a shred of evidence of so far.

The only thing about it that is even relevant is that the most powerful force in ponydom is the power of friendship, and considering our ability to make friends and the fact those friendships have been shoved in our face, I hope the importance of that to everyone else is equally obvious.

But I still don't know what to do about it.

This, this here.  Wonderful point.  That's probably one of the best arguments against the pony theory- it hasn't given us anything useful, and if we make assumptions on it that could end poorly.  If we assume withers is berserkershy, then maybe someone will come up with the bright idea to try and befriend her while she's murdering around, instead of running.

"Would you like to be my friend?"
"NO!" *stab*

I'm not a fan of the pony theory, either. Even if it was 100% correct, what do we get from it that simply knowing the characters as they are wouldn't?

It's better to know and not know what to do with it than just never mention it. What has been relevant or important on its own so far? The fact that we might be the Nerevarine? The fact that we may be from Earth? The rise of Clover? The construction of new guild holdings? Caius leaving? Dagoth Ur's machinations?

If you just shrug at everything and say "this isn't helpful," you're not going to have as much helpful stuff in the long run because you never bothered to accumulate it. It's like finding a LEGO piece, glancing at it, saying there's not enough here to build anything with, and tossing it aside.

IronyOwl comparing screenshots to see that the dunmer who walked out of the census office in Episode 5 has the same face and hair as the dunmer who slaughtered the guards in episode 44. That's information that's been avaialable to you for a long time, but nobody put it together until recently.

I thought we knew that already, although nobody explicitly compared the pictures.  We had already discussed it and decided that Balmora Butcher and Census PC were the same people.

We assumed it, but AFAIK nobody ever officially went back to check, or if they did they never reported it. That turned out alright because it turned out to be correct (or as correct as we'd have gotten out of that information), but it's still a relevant gap to point out. What if she hadn't matched? We might have spent a massive amount of time assuming two different people were the same. Or not knowing haircuts were a thing here.

I am almost positive that we discussed the whithers thing months ago, to be fair. That doesn't negate the fact that we have missed a lot.

Or, the realization that the withers is a part of a horse. The name SexyWithersXOXOXO was first mentioned in episode 40. That was August of last year. So it took ~8 months before somebody noticed that.

Again, I thought this was discussed earlier.  Certainly before that long hiatus that you just broke.

As far as I can tell (a search for "withers"), my post on it was the first time anyone pointed it out.

I think the werewolf deserves quite a bit more thought and discussion by the way. If it is Imare, my suspicion is that LB might be using her as an avatar for Azura, or perhaps a pony with quite a bit more control over Michael than the others. Read the werewolf part again, she literally can read Michael's "thoughts", or text thinking. Deathgrip, puppy dog eyes, and I think at least one other thing. Also, this pretty much confirms that Michael is related to the ponies in some way, as she seems connected with Maximus and Michael.

I wouldn't think Azura would be that manic. I'm not really familiar with her, and Daedric Princes probably aren't the simplest of beings, but it still seems weird to have the goddess of dawn and dusk bounce up to us and tell us she loves us in werewolf, which is altogether distinct from dinosaur.

As for the "connection," that's harder to say. Pony Pinkie Pie is very, very friendly; in fact, she makes a deliberate point of being friends with literally every pony in town. Running up and hugging us while calling us by name might not be as significant as it sounds.

Then again, of course, she managed to reach us. If she's bearhugging everyone she recognizes that'd probably slow her down pretty severely. Maybe less so in woofmode because everyone screams and attacks or flees in fear when they see her, but still.

we want to leverage our friendships to gain info which we trade for other info which we can, at one point, maybe, trade in for something that will make us genuinely more powerful

i think

Well that's rather sociopathic. What's wrong with making friends for generic friendmaking and vague potential future gain if they happen to be able to help?

@Irony owl: I don't think you can assume that the voice at the start is anything right now. It could be Azura, or someone else entirely. The "We" thing could mean it was an actual group of entities. Bear in mind that we ourselves are voices, and often use "we" whether referring to ourselves or Michael. Did we kidnap Michael? If you want to look at it like Vivec, he is here because of us, in a meta way.

This is my new favorite theory. SORRY MICHAEL SEEMED FUNNY AT THE TIME NO HARD FEELINGS ABOUT THE CLIFF RACERS RIGHT?

Fair point for the rest, but I still think it's important, and I think it's more likely to be Azura or Luna than most other options. Remember also that Michael stated that he can sort of tell the difference between us, so you would think a collective like that would sound more discordant and less obviously female.

Other reasons that I don't think the pony theory is accurate:
I doubt LB would use it, for one.  All this game had when it began was "Morrowind!".

i wouldn't dare call friendship relevant, as bucketkins might've pulled it from dozens if not hundreds of other series or just be making up this whole game from scratch (i mean it's a fairly common trope yo)

Ah, but that's where you're wrong. It's true that he might have pulled all sorts of inspiration from all sorts of places, but ponies have a special narrative justification: Not only is Michael a brony, but the fact that he's a brony is one of the first things, and one of the only specific things, we ever learn about him.

Reread the first update. We find out that he's a "liberal arts college freshman" who tested into a basic algebra class. We find out that he doesn't play "sports." And we discover his hobbies are limited, but include such highlights as "internet," "games," watching My Little Pony, and reading the occasional on Equestria Daily, your premiere source for MLP fanfics.

HMMMMMMM.

If it wasn't for that, then yeah, okay, ponies would be kind of out of left field. Still not out of the question, but it'd be kind of a dubious narrative decision because it'd rely on recognizing the inner source material to fully get the outer source material. MLP is still fairly widely known and LB in particular is known for it, but I could get the innate skepticism from suggesting that this whole thing reeks of Warcraft or League of Legends.

But ponies? Ponies have been canon since day one.

And that my biggest argument against ponies is "I dislike ponies". 

I get enjoyment from reading the story, but I'd lose a little of it if it turned out that the ponies theory is correct.  But that's just me, and I understand that people have the opposite opinion.

Ah. Sorry. :x

So, yes. Both some cackling and facepalming. You guys have a lot of information to work with and it's clearly not trivial to sort out the important information from the coincidences. And from the deliberate Red Herrings.

So, there's red herrings?  That hurts the pony theory more than it helps, IMO, because it uses several small, lone clues.  Like "withers".  Or that nord guy.

The threat of red herrings is almost always going to hurt a theory more than help it, because it is by definition the threat that some of your information is misleading. Unless that happens to be the exact information getting in your way (like with "Withers" getting in the way of your "not ponies" theory hope), that's obviously going to make things shakier rather than more certain.

*Checks user stats page*
Huh.  You are japanese.  Never would have guessed.

sukoshi hanashimasu demo dame desu ne. GM desu kara. yare yare. suiseiseki ga youni kikoeru desu. desu kara desu.

I-I wasn't talking about the language, baka.

But as long as I'm here:

Spoiler: Exhibit A (click to show/hide)

: "Also they say boobs."

: "Boobs are nice, yes."

As you can see, even benevolent god-kings agree on certain universal constants.

Spoiler: Exhibit B (click to show/hide)

You reach for the phone to show him but he yanks it away from you.

: "No spoilers!"

He immediately begins mashing buttons with an index finger.

: "The best way to learn about potentially dangerous alien technology is ALWAYS to madly tinker with it until something happens. You are an alien, aren't you?"

Final survivors of ancient and mysterious races (also) agree on others.

Spoiler: Exhibit C (click to show/hide)

: "I don't know her name. Never felt the need to ask. She's kind of loud and demanding, it's kind of annoying. Try asking Edwinna. She's the head of the guild here. I assume she's renting the room from her."

: "Well, to answer your question, no...sadly that particular pile belongs to SexyWithers, who is not nearly so quiet, nor I'm guessing...as studious, as Clover."

: "SexyWithers?"

: "SexyWithersXOXOXO, actually."

: "Again, just in passing. So she's renting the room upstairs then?"

Edwinna's eyes open wide as if in sudden realization.

: "Yes! Renting. She's renting the room. Yes. Why do you ask?"

You're not sure what to make of that reaction but clearly there's more that she's not telling you.

Spoiler: Exhibit D (click to show/hide)

You step out the door and-

: "CITIZENS OF BALMORA BEWARE!!!!"

You duck back into the door and crane your head into the air just in time to catch what appears to be a female dunmer carrying a massive sword leaping from the roof of the building.



She hits the ground running. No armor, looks like. Just clothes and a big sword.

: "THE DOOMPOCALYPSE IS UPON YOU!"

A couple guards are trying to chase her. With great difficulty, as she seems to be wearing the Boots of Blinding Speed.



: "HAVE AT THEE, VILE VILLAINS!"

Which she uses to dart in circles around them before promptly one-shotting each of them.



: "HA HA! THIRTY POINTS!!!"

Spoiler: Exhibit E (click to show/hide)

: "I wouldn't exactly call her hot, though. She was more of a cool, dangerous kind of sexy. 'Hot' is a word I'd use to describe a tall girl with big boobs and wide hips. I like the voluptuous look. Did I mention I like big? It's a dwemer thing. Whoever made that phone of yours had it all wrong. I just don't understand the miniaturization aesthetic. If you saw a floodgate that was two inches by two inches, and a floodgate that was two miles by two miles, and they both did exactly the same thing, which would you be more impressed by?"

: "Well, I suppose you might say she wasn't the most refined lady I've ever met. Maybe even a bit socially awkward. And kind of loud. No indoor voice."

Didn't Edwinna say something about Sexy being loud?

: "Kind of got the impression she'd spent too much time alone as a little girl. Never learned proper social graces, never learned to connect to anyone on a personal level. And I'm being generous because I'm a gentleman. The girl was a borderline lunatic, really. Definite anger issues. Kind of flat chested, too. Definitely not the biggest breasts I've ever seen, and trust me, I've seen some huge breasts. Have you ever seen a female ogrim? Can't say I recommend it, actually, but they're definitely above average in the breast department. Though ogrim men tend to have big boobs too, which is kind of creepy, if you ask me. Especially with those piercings."

Lunatic describes the Balmora Butcher well enough, so that's probably her. Didn't someone in the Wolverine Hall mage guild say she was rumored to be in the mage guild, but also a member of House Telvanni?

: "Still, she had that forbbiden fruit kind of appeal I just can't resist. Imagine if the big-boobed hot girl had a younger sister. You know you're not supposed to touch her or else she'll beat you up, but you still want to. That was SexyWithers all over."

Aaaaaand everything I'm aware that we know about SexyWithersXOXOXO. Definitely thinking it could be Luna, but I'm nowhere near certain.

[GlyphGryph]

Yeah, I'm beginning to suspect that her having the same "voice" (visually) as the person who spoke when we first entered the game might be significant.

Here's what I would like to see someone do next: I'd like to see them pull up all of our friends - as in, the real friends we've made so far during the game. Every one of them.

Because I'm starting to get an idea of something we should do.

We've got an existential threat to Morrowind. Our personal growth is meager, but if there's one thing we have it is friends. Forget the ponies - they are potential future friends at best. If this game is pony-related though, friendship will end up being an important theme.

And our newest "friend" in this ramshackle house has demonstrated something about us, the one thing that is truly incredibly, potentially. We can help other people be better than they would otherwise. We are a valuable friend, and our value makes our friends more valuable to us.

We've got a magic school now, to practice, so we can be somewhat competent on our own. But although we've met this "pony PCs", we are not friends with any of them. We simply aren't. Maybe we should consider ceasing to base our game around personal advancement and these people that are "important" but don't actually mean anything to us, and maybe we should bring up what's going on with the people we actually like - after all, they have arguably more to lose from it than us, and if they decide to join with us in our goal of stopping Dagoth Ur, trying to level up the skills of 5+ characters simultaneously is actually going to be a LOT more effective and a lot more dangerous sooner than shuffling around by ourselves.

And to be honest, we are currently in Seyda Neen. Did we make any friends here aside from our new friend? Why not let our new friend be our first? His city was just attacked! He should realize something important is up. He seemed interested in us, and our life.

Let's stop playing Vanilla Morrowind, and start imagining we are playing the game with the companion mod on, and start building ourselves a goddamn posse yo! And this Draren is practically begging us to invite him along on one!