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[Remuthra]

I will still say things, I just don't see a point to defending myself now.

[Nerjin]

Lol.  Remuthra just chatted with me in another thread and apparently the best way to win this game is for him to never say anything ever.  Joy.

Isn't it illegal to discuss a game of mafia outside of the game thread itself?

[Nerjin]

I will still say things, I just don't see a point to defending myself now.

How dandy. Please inform us when you plan to pack up your tears and actually play the game.

[TheWetSheep]

Griffinpup:

Yeah, I don't like this one. Firstly, I don't trust Griffinpup anymore, and secondly, a Dariush-Remuthra-Shinigami scumteam(the one we're left with if we exclude this team and me) doesn't make a lot of sense. Why would Dariush not put a member of his team on the first mission?

I'll assume that you're not being intentionally stupid.  It's better to assume that you're merely having a temporary relapse of intelligence.  That's not the team that's left.  I'm also not automatically discounting you from being a spy.  Especially after this blatant manipulation of events.

Wow, you're right. Sorry, should have said Dariush-Remuthra-Nerjin. I don't know what I was thinking. It doesn't make a difference to my point though.

So far, Occam's Razor says that the spy-team is Tiruin, Shinigami and Remuthra. This also makes sense with how the votes have played out, with Tiruin and Shinigami downvoting the first one, and Tiruin downvoting the second one. It was pretty obvious from what people said that the team was going to be passed, so she could have downvoted for us to trust her.

It's odd, because what the evidence points to gives me a completely different view on who's scum than what people have said.

You should probably explain how Occam's razor applies to this situation.  You give very circumstantial evidence of how Shinigami and Tiruin could be on the spy team but you don't even mention how Remuthra fits in relation to them.

OK. Since the first mission had no fails, there were probably either no spies or two-three spies. There were probably no spies, since the same team was in the second mission and there was only one fail. That makes it likely that Remuthra was the spy. If there were no spies on the first mission, Dariush is probably not a spy, since he made the team. That leaves us with Dariush, NQT, Griffinpup and Nerjin as rebels, plus me. I know you can't be sure of me, but I can.

And I wasn't saying this was the scumteam I thought was most likely, either. It's not. I was just saying that taking the simplest explanation for what's happened left us with those.

Tiruin:

TWS
You don't trust Griffinpup anymore? My, my. That's quite a drop in trust, huh.

Can you explain your doubt on that full scumteam? Or probably, which one in the DRS team is a weak link in your logic?

OK. I think there were 0 or 2-3 spies Mission 1. If 0, then Dariush is probably also rebel, meaning that, since I'm also a rebel, that team can't be spy-free. If 2, then it's also impossible for it to be spy-free, since at least one of Griffinpup or NQT would have to be a spy. If three, well, it's definitely not spy-free, but that's very unlikely.

DRS= Dariush Remuthra Shinigami? Dariush. I see where he's coming from now, and his actions don't make much sense if he's scum.

To the first question addressed to me: Why would he put more spies on his team if he was already on it?

> Why wouldn't he? The bare fact that we can easily check the post, and see any minute details on 'hey, RVS out. Let's prod on the questions and check the numbers' and all that.
Secondly, you're answering with a subtle general answer. Assuming NQT is a spy, it would be hard to prove it in that case and adding a spy to the combination would make it even more confusing.

Sure, Remuthra is being a total helpful newbie due to recent news, and let's assume NQT laid-low first day, and sabotaged the next. Judging by his recent posts, I see much clerical error on that notion of him being scum there. On those points.

Uh, he wouldn't put another spy on the team because if he did they might double-sabotage?

Your misuse of Occam's Razor is apparent.

So far (x) states a,b and c are spies. But you're lacking the basis or the context.

Why. How. You jump to 'this also makes sense' as if you've already stated your case, huh. Putting assumptions before questioning isn't a good way of building a case.

Answered above in the Griffinpup section.

Dariush:

So far, Occam's Razor says that the spy-team is Tiruin, Shinigami and Remuthra. This also makes sense with how the votes have played out, with Tiruin and Shinigami downvoting the first one, and Tiruin downvoting the second one. It was pretty obvious from what people said that the team was going to be passed, so she could have downvoted for us to trust her.

This is probably the stupidest thing said in this game so far, and that's a record considering we're playing with NQT. How can you possibly discard the entirety of two days' discussion and only look at their votes and judge their alignments from that?

Uh, I'm not. I'm not basing my reads off this, at least not completely.

[zombie urist]

ONE MORE PERSON NEEDS TO VOTE.

Voting ends soon.

[griffinpup]

Lol.  Remuthra just chatted with me in another thread and apparently the best way to win this game is for him to never say anything ever.  Joy.

Isn't it illegal to discuss a game of mafia outside of the game thread itself?

I'm going to claim innocent on this one because I talked about the game as an idea or an object, not about what was actually happening.  I'll quote it though, just in case.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Actually, you are in a game.  Have you forgotten?

What game? we're in an Anime.

Also I'm a bitter, angry person because Remuthra left the game I was playing with him with no warning whatsoever.

Which game?
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=126947.0

I didn't leave that game. I just am effectively done for at this point, because I lack the mafia skill required to get out of the situation I find myself in at this point. I'm still voting and will still participate when my turn comes, I expect to no avail, but it's useless for me to badly defend myself and still be pigeonholed as a spy rather than giving up attempts to reason in the purely theoretical. I can't restore my reputation within the game at this point and my comments will probably only harm the team.

Griffinpup:

Yeah, I don't like this one. Firstly, I don't trust Griffinpup anymore, and secondly, a Dariush-Remuthra-Shinigami scumteam(the one we're left with if we exclude this team and me) doesn't make a lot of sense. Why would Dariush not put a member of his team on the first mission?

I'll assume that you're not being intentionally stupid.  It's better to assume that you're merely having a temporary relapse of intelligence.  That's not the team that's left.  I'm also not automatically discounting you from being a spy.  Especially after this blatant manipulation of events.

Wow, you're right. Sorry, should have said Dariush-Remuthra-Nerjin. I don't know what I was thinking. It doesn't make a difference to my point though.

OK.  I agree with your point.  A Dariush-Shinigami-Remuthra spy team wouldn't make sense because of the reason you stated.  Good thing that's not the spy-team I'm proposing.

So far, Occam's Razor says that the spy-team is Tiruin, Shinigami and Remuthra. This also makes sense with how the votes have played out, with Tiruin and Shinigami downvoting the first one, and Tiruin downvoting the second one. It was pretty obvious from what people said that the team was going to be passed, so she could have downvoted for us to trust her.

It's odd, because what the evidence points to gives me a completely different view on who's scum than what people have said.

You should probably explain how Occam's razor applies to this situation.  You give very circumstantial evidence of how Shinigami and Tiruin could be on the spy team but you don't even mention how Remuthra fits in relation to them.

OK. Since the first mission had no fails, there were probably either no spies or two-three spies. There were probably no spies, since the same team was in the second mission and there was only one fail. That makes it likely that Remuthra was the spy. If there were no spies on the first mission, Dariush is probably not a spy, since he made the team. That leaves us with Dariush, NQT, Griffinpup and Nerjin as rebels, plus me. I know you can't be sure of me, but I can.

You completely discount the possibility of one scum laying low on the first mission?

Dariush:

So far, Occam's Razor says that the spy-team is Tiruin, Shinigami and Remuthra. This also makes sense with how the votes have played out, with Tiruin and Shinigami downvoting the first one, and Tiruin downvoting the second one. It was pretty obvious from what people said that the team was going to be passed, so she could have downvoted for us to trust her.

This is probably the stupidest thing said in this game so far, and that's a record considering we're playing with NQT. How can you possibly discard the entirety of two days' discussion and only look at their votes and judge their alignments from that?

Uh, I'm not. I'm not basing my reads off this, at least not completely.

Oh really?  I can't seem to find where your reads differ whatsoever from this reading your post.  If you could quote that, you might seem less like scum trying to BS their way through a crappy explanation.  In fact, what are your current reads?  On everyone.

Remuthra:
What are your reads?

[Tiruin]

PFP

Goodness gracious, I'd love to point back at a BM, Remuthra, because you're assuming so darn much that I'm really irked on thinking you as an escapist whining spy.

You're even explaining yourself in other threads than the game itself.

Ugh. >_>

[Dariush]

Dariush:

So far, Occam's Razor says that the spy-team is Tiruin, Shinigami and Remuthra. This also makes sense with how the votes have played out, with Tiruin and Shinigami downvoting the first one, and Tiruin downvoting the second one. It was pretty obvious from what people said that the team was going to be passed, so she could have downvoted for us to trust her.

This is probably the stupidest thing said in this game so far, and that's a record considering we're playing with NQT. How can you possibly discard the entirety of two days' discussion and only look at their votes and judge their alignments from that?

Uh, I'm not. I'm not basing my reads off this, at least not completely.

Yes you are, because YOU SAID SO. If you don't think so, why would you ever blurt out a piece of baseless and insane shit that not even you agree with?

Remuthra, if you aren't going to play the game, free up the slot. If you aren't saying anything, you aren't playing. Just because one person accused you of being a spy with no visible means to defend yourself doesn't mean you have to break down and cry. Or maybe it does, if you're a child/mentally deficient/an intentionally emulating either of the two previous ones spy.

[zombie urist]

Griffinpup
Shinigami King
Turiun
NQT

NQT: up
Tiruin: up
Griffinpup: up

Dariush: down
Nerjin: down
Remthura: down
TheWetSheep: down
Shinigami_King: down (didn't vote)

TheWetSheep is now your leader!

[Nerjin]

NQT: up
Tiruin: up
Griffinpup: up

Dariush: down
Nerjin: down
Remthura: down
TheWetSheep: down
Shinigami_King: down (didn't vote)

TheWetSheep is now your leader!

In the future being able to see who the vote was on in the vote-count would have been helpful.

@Shinigami Where are you and why didn't you vote? What are your reads thus far?

[Shinigami_King]

I can't keep track of this. Sorry birdy, it's nothing personal Request replacement

[Tiruin]

Griffinpup
Shinigami King
Turiun
NQT

NQT: up
Tiruin: up
Griffinpup: up

Dariush: down
Nerjin: down
Remthura: down
TheWetSheep: down
Shinigami_King: down (didn't vote)

Tiruin just shakes her head and gazes in Remuthra's direction before looking back at TheWetSheep.

"Your call."

Hey, for those who downvoted, reasons please? Half stated theirs, but half and even more have it in the nebulous area. What's up with that?

[TheWetSheep]

You all seem to be assuming that Remuthra's scum. Why?


Griffinpup:

So far, Occam's Razor says that the spy-team is Tiruin, Shinigami and Remuthra. This also makes sense with how the votes have played out, with Tiruin and Shinigami downvoting the first one, and Tiruin downvoting the second one. It was pretty obvious from what people said that the team was going to be passed, so she could have downvoted for us to trust her.

It's odd, because what the evidence points to gives me a completely different view on who's scum than what people have said.

You should probably explain how Occam's razor applies to this situation.  You give very circumstantial evidence of how Shinigami and Tiruin could be on the spy team but you don't even mention how Remuthra fits in relation to them.

OK. Since the first mission had no fails, there were probably either no spies or two-three spies. There were probably no spies, since the same team was in the second mission and there was only one fail. That makes it likely that Remuthra was the spy. If there were no spies on the first mission, Dariush is probably not a spy, since he made the team. That leaves us with Dariush, NQT, Griffinpup and Nerjin as rebels, plus me. I know you can't be sure of me, but I can.

You completely discount the possibility of one scum laying low on the first mission?

No. I said probably. It's the simplest solution, hence why I said Occam's razor. I was not saying that that was the truth, I was throwing out a hypothesis.

Dariush:

So far, Occam's Razor says that the spy-team is Tiruin, Shinigami and Remuthra. This also makes sense with how the votes have played out, with Tiruin and Shinigami downvoting the first one, and Tiruin downvoting the second one. It was pretty obvious from what people said that the team was going to be passed, so she could have downvoted for us to trust her.

This is probably the stupidest thing said in this game so far, and that's a record considering we're playing with NQT. How can you possibly discard the entirety of two days' discussion and only look at their votes and judge their alignments from that?

Uh, I'm not. I'm not basing my reads off this, at least not completely.

Oh really?  I can't seem to find where your reads differ whatsoever from this reading your post.  If you could quote that, you might seem less like scum trying to BS their way through a crappy explanation.  In fact, what are your current reads?  On everyone.

Quick post to say what I think of the team. I'd be against it because of Dariush, but I'm fine with Tiruin and you. NQT I'm not sure about.

I've explained Dariush's scumminess. Griffinpup hasn't posted enough to get a good read on, but he's leaning town. Tiruin seems town to me because she's one of the only people who isn't upvoting whatever team the leader throws out. NQT is null.

Some examples of where I say Dariush looks scummy and Tiruin looks towny, even though my "Occam's Razor" thing says the opposite.

Reads:

NQT: Slight town. He's playing pretty much like normal, with a bit more lurkiness.
Tiruin: Quite town.
Griffinpup: Hard to tell. He did that gambit of the untrustworthy team, but that could just be a cover-up, I suppose.
Dariush: Slight scum. He's gotten townier, but his actions still feel a bit weird.
Nerjin: Very slight scum. Mostly based off my gut, though.
Remuthra: I don't know. He gave up, yes, but I can't tell if it's defeatist town or defeatist scum. It would be a huge benefit to his credibility if he came back and started playing again, though.
Shinigami/replacement: Null. I haven't seen enough from him yet, and I'd like to wait for the replacement.

Dariush:

Dariush:

So far, Occam's Razor says that the spy-team is Tiruin, Shinigami and Remuthra. This also makes sense with how the votes have played out, with Tiruin and Shinigami downvoting the first one, and Tiruin downvoting the second one. It was pretty obvious from what people said that the team was going to be passed, so she could have downvoted for us to trust her.

This is probably the stupidest thing said in this game so far, and that's a record considering we're playing with NQT. How can you possibly discard the entirety of two days' discussion and only look at their votes and judge their alignments from that?

Uh, I'm not. I'm not basing my reads off this, at least not completely.

Yes you are, because YOU SAID SO. If you don't think so, why would you ever blurt out a piece of baseless and insane shit that not even you agree with?

Heard of a hypothesis? Just because I say that looking at the facts a certain way leads me to a certain conclusion doesn't mean I'm convinced of the conclusion. I like to voice my thoughts.


OK, my team. I'm thinking one of these two:

Based of the success of Mission 1: NQT, Griffinpup, Nerjin, Dariush? I'd prefer if I was switched with Dariush, but I'd like your feedback.

Based off who looks towny: NQT, Tiruin, myself and Griffinpup or Shinigami.

[griffinpup]

Quick Post:
Remuthra:
Why did the vote the way you did?

[griffinpup]

Okay, sorry. Umm I only see a flaw in the way you are choosing NQT. I'm skeptical but at the same time your decisions make sense. I'll upvote.

Apparently you upvoted.  Wait... No you didn't.  You never voted, effectively down-voting the team, after stating that you'd upvote it.  You then immediately request a replacement, without giving an explanation for why you voted the way you did.  Scummy scum scum.