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[Superblackcat]

@Persus, Since you believe kleril is scum, who do you think his partner is?

[Persus13]

@Persus, Since you believe kleril is scum, who do you think his partner is?

Not completely sure. Imp's pretty sure your Kleril's partner, but there's a few people I can cross off. If Kleril's scum, then I'm pretty sure Imp isn't scum as the two have been arguing for pretty much the entire game. Otherwise the choices are pretty open.

[zombie urist]

Day has been extended to Thursday October 10th 9PM PST. I have another midterm on Wednesday so this extension is longer.

Persus13 - kleril, Squill
Squill -
Superblackcat - Deathsword, Mr.Zero
Mr.Zero - Superblackcat
Imp - Darvi, Rolepgeek
kleril - Imp, Persus13
Rolepgeek -
Deathsword -
Darvi -

Not voting -

0 to extend
0 to shorten

[Imp]

I believe the 'Superblackcat - Deathswordsuperblackcat' is actually 'Superblackcat - Deathsword, Mr.Zero'

[Squill]

@SBC

@Squill:
Haven't heard much from you. Who are you interested in scum hunting? Now that I've replaced Lukinator, you going to change anything you do?

@Persus13: Lukinator was just playing atrociously. I can't be satisfied just because he's gone.
What do you think of your predecessors actions? Why do you think he reacted so vehemently to anything said against him?

My opinion of Lukinator was, I believe I've said before, out of his depth. Bay12 mafia and real life mafia are two very different kettles of fish. Bay12 involves lots of questioning, pressuring, and is more psychological based than RL mafia. I think my predecessor's actions was bad playing by someone who didn't understand the rules, and his dropping out reinforced that. I viewed Luke as town even before I got my role PM.

Also, reacted so vehemently to what was said against him? His last post was the one where he voted you and he said it was because no one else had voted you, which set off the big attacks against him. And before that he was just answering people's questions. And even with the post where he voted you, it was a response to a question from Mr. Zero on why he hadn't voted yet. The only other post where he's defending or attacking was this:

As for Scum Imp seems pretty suspicious, lynching people for not having a lot of time on one night.

So I think vehemently reacting wasn't happening.

Right now, I'd rather scumhunt (except the two I'm focusing at the moment on haven't responded for a while) than defend Lukinator because defending a replaced player won't help town if I get lynched, but focusing on scumhunting will.

Alright, that's good enough for now.
Unvote

[Imp]

Ok!  Now I'm free to start focusing here.  It's dreadfully early in the morning for me and there's a lot of stuff I want to respond to, so I'm just going to start.  When sleepiness overcomes motivation, I'm stopping and sleeping, then I'll be back to cover the rest and catch up on new stuff past this point.  Either way, I intend to get fully caught up today.

First, here's the link-fixed parts of the 'behemoth', thrown in spoilers so they don't blind those of you who don't want to read every word (possibly again).  Only the three broken links have been changed for the portion devoted to Kleril:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Kleril is my top Scum pick.  I think there is about a 96% likelihood that he is Scum, and feel about 90% sure that I am right in my assessment of him and his play.
This is my assessment of Kleril, and his links to Superblackcat:
1)  He was the first to speak of something odd about Superblackcat’s unusual first post, saying “Interesting choice of pronoun there, bud. There something we should know?”  Kleril never followed up on this – never even answered Mr.Zero’s “Even though you asked a little bit more than blackcat, you didn't actively pursue this. Why so? Aren't you curious?”

     Note it seems unlikely that he totally missed it – combined with Mr.Zero’s question about his reaction to Cat was also a question about what bandwagon Kleril called me on, and also a question about why Kleril hadn’t voted for me on it.  Following post is Deathsword’s vote on Kleril, his {voice} clarifying that what I’d done wasn’t a bandwagon, then speaking again as a player and challenging Kleril’s lack of a vote with his words of suspicion.

     Kleril responds with a vote on me and an affirmation that I came “after Deathsword after a pressure vote. Rule of thumb the person following that is scum” despite what the others have said about what a bandwagon is, but he ignores completely the question about Cat; he never revisits it, even as others continue to talk about suspicion of Cat, talk about that specific post of Cat’s, explore Cat’s claimed philosophy… Kleril has no interest in Cat, despite his original words about Cat having being suspicious.  Even when Kleril claims to be using me as some sort of touchstone, Kleril STILL doesn’t have anything to say about Cat, even though he does finally (after again having been challenged about not using his vote) vote for Luke after Luke has gained four other votes.

2)   Recently, Kleril has this interesting dynamic going with me.  He says weird things about his own thoughts like how “completely convinced” he is that I am Town; that “all my thoughts on who's town and who's scum are built off the foundation that at least one person is town, them being you.”.  Scum have no doubt about who else is and isn’t Town.  Additionally, a Scum knows he or she is not Town themself.  I believe this cannot be Town reasoning.

3)   Kleril’s eventual explanation about his pursuit of my bandwagoning seems tuned to my statements of my perceptions, and seems to me like an attempt tuned after the fact to allay my suspicions.  On examination it happens to seem highly implausible as truth – unless he had little interest in the votecounts each day, which seems Scummy to me as well.  Everyone should recognize at a glance when they place a vote and the votecount shows it wrong.  Scum have different reasons to check the votecount than Town, and might not even bother to truly look at it until they think it’s going to show something interesting to them. [/list]

And here's the portion devoted to Superblackcat.  In it one broken link is fixed, and because I wanted to spoiler it the whole I had to unspoiler the spoiler that had been; it is still clearly marked beginning and end.   Otherwise this too is unchanged.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I’ve already made a case against Superblackcat.  Two and a quarter cases, actually, the first one where I discuss his original scummy play based on everything I’d seen up to that point; the ‘quarter case’ where I try to reduce the pressure upon Superblackcat – not because I am a Scum-loving weakling, before anyone wonders – but because I would prefer to catch actual current-role Scum, not weak players who make one or many mistakes and have no real idea how to defend themselves, and have happened to have been given a Town role – and believing I have recognized him (or her) as a player unable to defend himself well I wished to invite him to play with less stress, showing though either words (the poorer choice) or though genuine and comprehensible Town play (the much more convincing method) that he was innocent.  After all, having –identified a Scum-, if I had at that point, he’s already a belled Superblackcat.  If I’m wrong about him, I want him showing it so I can decide if he’s actually Scum or not.  If I’m right about it – well, given the mistakes he already made, there would probably be quite a few more, and more clear, tells.

And there have been – thus my second full case about Superblackcat, made –despite- my desire to lower the pressure upon him (her?) because what my second full case is based on I see Superblackcat make a really clear error.  Despite the distance between Superblackcat and everyone up to this point, as of his ‘summing it up’ post that I base my second case on, he shows his connection to Kleril.  For one, he agrees with what Kleril says about me – though it’s not clear if he’s agreeing with Kleril’s most recent post (Imp is certainly Town) or his second most recent post (Imp is rule of thumb Scum).  Either way, despite this agreement I somehow don’t make his list of top Town or top Scum

Who does make his three lists is interesting.  Top Town is Squill, because “I like his reasoning thus far, and the way he responded to me does not sound like mafia. Mafia wouldn't care if I was self preserving”
Interestingly, this is almost identical to Kleril’s “Squill - He's my top town. He posts little, but does so frequently, and all of his contributions are valuable. He holds very little self interest, and serves the town well at opportune times.” and “I trust Squill because they've said the perfect things at the perfect times, and are swinging this game in favour of the town. All posts make it clear where their loyalties lie.”

But as of the point both these players start to make this assertion, Squill’s only made 9 posts.  This spoiler sums up these 9 posts that Superblackcat and Kleril really like the reasoning of:

THIS WAS SPOILER START
1st answering questions, promising to ask some at 'some point' (which has still not come!  I cry lies!  But Superblackcat and Kleril cry top Town)

2nd answering questions, reacting to a Vote, promising to stick the game out, and responding to a challenge of lurking

3rd correcting an error in the 2nd post

4th (after a motivational speech) answering a question, asking that questioner 1 question back.  (sure it was a great question, a question I found personally useful because of how it was answered - but still.... one question only... one person only)

5th Asking a question to clarify a question asked

6th Answering half of a question, stating more time needed to answer other half.

7th Chiding Superblackcat for self preservation

8th A somewhat jocular and two line analysis of a portion of game play not directly involving Squill himself (didn't involve Superblackcat or Kleril either).

9th Answering the other half of the question.
THIS WAS A SPOILER END

Superblackcat's top Scum is Mr.Zero, for weird original RVS questions (He complained about –everyone’s- questions initially, not singling out Mr.Zero’s (though Kleril did); he’s asked “@Deathsword, enlighten me. What is the point of asking questions such as: What is your first mafia game? or things along the lines.” And answered “@Rolepeek No, but I think the questions should be relevant to the game, instead of random questions like you guys are asking, and the massive amounts of questions.” – in general, he doesn’t like anyone’s questions.

But his other reason given for voting Mr.Zero was “then blew this [list your top town and FOS] question off, while showing that he saw it, seems like He is trying to hide who he wants dead.”  If Superblackcat believes Scum try to hide who they want dead, AND if he agrees with Kleril about me, then my name should be in Town or in Scum, depending on which opinion of Kleril’s he is agreeing with.  Makes me feel ‘hidden from the list’, but Town don’t have much reason for this.

Otherwise, his SECOND top scum pick is our now gone Griffinpup, absent all game (that means shame on Griff, but how can that make him seem the second most likely Scum?  Unless you have a solid sense of all the other 7 players and deeply believe all of them but one to be Scum (or know all 7 of them are Town, because you are Scum)… but if Superblackcat believes this, then he should have made that belief very clear in this post – he doesn’t say it at all.

And his THIRD scum pick has a reason, “No activity after being voted... Seems kinda like lurk...” which he changes after posting to “My bad, Deathsword became inactive 2days and 8 hours ago [including weekend time], However, not directly after vote. He became inactive after me and Imp had large walls of text.”  Superblackcat’s sole reason given for thinking Deathsword Scum changed.  But if this reason changed, Superblackcat expresses no awareness of his suspicion changing.

And then he has an ‘Others’ category.  Having talked about 4 players as Town/Scum, he speaks only about one as being an ‘others’:  Kleril.  Superblackcat says “kleril doesn't seem scum, but He hasn't had enough activity of the late for me to tell...”  (At this point, Kleril has made 6 posts)  Doesn’t bother to put anyone else in the Others category; follows this statement about Kleril with “I agree with what kleril said”.

Note the sudden focus on Kleril.  The claim he doesn’t think Kleril’s Scum, but apparently not sure enough to say Town, he doesn’t give me any impression he’s been closely following anyone prior to this in the game, but now he agrees with Kleril, without any specifics given.

As of his ‘self defense’ post, he may have started paying close attention to Mr.Zero and myself(“two most active people in this game is after me”); for sure by his ‘top picks’ post he is, especially to me, and also suddenly to Kleril; But where’d this close attention to Kleril come from?  Why this sudden shift in tone, attitude, focus, and styles of posting, which occurred for both Kleril and Superblackcat on the same day, in posts placed two hours apart from each others?
I am convinced these changes came from Scum chat.  I am convinced Kleril and Superblackcat are our Scum.

Next post will have new stuff.

[Superblackcat]

It's been 5 hours of nervous waiting :<

Squill, Could you completely answer my question? By giving thoughts about every, and not just myself?

Since, I'm up there in your scum list, there must be others right? Who would they be and why? Or are you just jumping on bandwagons.

[Imp]

@Superblackcat and those who wish a deeper look at 'what I saw then as Scummy about Superblackcat':

It's been 5 hours of nervous waiting :<

For me, it's been >5 hours of very careful link checking + a few thousand words of typing.  Happily for you, or not, it happens to be almost entirely focused on you - from before my 'Behemoth'.  It answers primarily your question about what I see as your inexplicable sudden focus on Kleril at a very interesting time, and a few related other questions.  It says NOTHING about your change of play past Behemoth.

Sorry guy, intention's not to torment you.  And 'what I saw' doesn't mean it's vanished now - just means I'm clarifying -then-, as asked.  I'm not done talking about you, just this one was the hardest one to write because it has a lot of links and requires a lot of detailed explanation to show.

Do talk.  Talk to everyone if you want, and if you'd include in your focus those I have talked to the least, I'd consider it a personal favor, be you Scum or Town.  Scum hunt, play the best you can, do everything you can to help your team, no matter what your team is.  You're not going to look worse to me if you act like Town - even if you hunt me.  Believe you me, if I pressure you because you pressure me - if I pressure you or anyone for any reason other than solid real based logic, I throw everything I have said yet and intend to still say before D1 ends into even greater suspicion than it now has.

However, if you are Town, you help Town a lot by not JUST hunting me.  Just saying, y'know.  And I think I've shown a tendency to want to Scum hunt - there's some concerns about that, I'm going to address them in upcoming post(s), along with other points.  So, your questions help us all see Scum/Town, you help us all (me too!) hunt the real Scum.  You act less like Scum, you eat less of my time trying to decide if I really think you are Scum or not.  This analysis that follows will hopefully help you see what looks like Scum to me in what you've done - should you still be clueless - you're not seeming so now, but that's all I'll say about now, now.  This post's about then.

Anyways, onto the meat.

@Imp, Where did I suddenly focus on kleril?

"As of his ‘self defense’ post, he may have started paying close attention to Mr.Zero and myself(“two most active people in this game is after me”); for sure by his ‘top picks’ post he is, especially to me, and also suddenly to Kleril; But where’d this close attention to Kleril come from?  Why this sudden shift in tone, attitude, focus, and styles of posting, which occurred for both Kleril and Superblackcat on the same day, in posts placed two hours apart from each others?"

What in the hell do you mean?

One thing you ask is for clarification of where your sudden focus on Kleril is.  To show it, the second spoiler in this thread contains my analysis of each of your posts this game, up to my 'behemoth'.  Your posts after that point are also worth analysis, but they are a very different thing, and are not part of why you appear Scummily connected to Kleril to me as I discuss in Behemoth. 

I largely agree with you - for most of your posts there is no link to Kleril and in fact you look like you're playing totally independently... until your post 8 - then suddenly, bolt out of the blue, your writing style has greatly changed, your reasoning patterns have greatly changed, AND a random-looking connection to Kleril is suddenly just there.  Either you did include him randomly, or you included him SUPER specifically, and with careful and not-like-your-playstyle-alone strategy  Either is possible, and it is useful in my decisionmaking ONLY because I see both you and Kleril as being independently Scummy.

Why do I care if Superblackcat is possibly connected to Kleril, especially on D1?  I -really- don't want to set up a mislynch, and I believe in gestalt.  The parts and the whole are both equally present, equally real, and equally meaningful.  I believe, right or wrong, that if they are both Scum then even now, there could be evidence, so I looked to see if there was anything to see.

Keep in mind, we have an IC saying basically, 'hey, don't go there yet.  That type of connective analysis doesn't mean anything yet or go anywhere yet; you prove one Scum, then comb the Scum's posts for such patterns.'

Well, I already went there before that suggestion.  Already wrote about it, and got asked about.  Here's my answers about it.

Considered alone, to me Superblackcat looks extremely scummy because of his own actions in play throughout the game.  Considered alone, for totally different reasons to me Kleril also looks extremely, vastly more extremely! scummy because of his own actions in play throughout the game.

That's two Scum, if this is a correct evaluation.  If they are aware of the value (and peril) of Scumchat, then there is communication between them (not all newbie scum do know and use).  If this is the case, then their play even as of first posting in play, can be considered for interaction between them that may support or weaken the hypothesis 'Kleril and Superblackcat are a Scumteam'.  If either of them is not a Scum, or if both are not, it's a total waste of time.  But they both got hit with a bunch of pressure, and that can make things happen.  Did it?  So I considered the possibility that they are our Scumteam, and this is my general analysis, considering BOTH of them from start of play to Just before Behemoth

(But it doesn't touch what Kleril talks about when he says...

Whelp, my timing sucks.

...I'll react to that upcoming.)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

1)  Kleril spotted a mistake and lightly poked Cat for use of weird, possibly Scum-identity pronouns in Cat's first weird post.  This solidly fits Kleril's playstyle with other people around that time.

2)  Cat 'defended' very unconvincingly - this solidly fits Cat's playstyle around that time.

3)  Kleril does not follow up - This too solidly fits Kleril's playstyle of that point.

4)  They basically ignore each other for several real life days (consistent, they're mostly ignoring everyone else too).  Kleril medium pokes me, gets (primarily by others) challenged for weird/incorrect reasoning, for not voting in combination with his accusation, and for not digging about his suspicion.  He follows up eventually with a vote and a super poor explanation of his reasoning, absolutely no digging.  This is my first suspicion of Kleril beyond that of ‘he’s playing this game too thus is suspect’ – In fact, up to this point, I really like how Kleril’s playing and he’s my top Town feel.  Yep, the mistake’s so bad it jolts me out of that feel, and totally changes what I’m going to say to Kleril in my upcoming long ‘talk to everyone’ post.  Now I DO have something scummy to discuss.  Meanwhile Cat keeps doing what Cat does and looking steadily Scummier to me.

5)  I post 'baby behemoth', where Cat gets challenged hard by me, Kleril gets medium hard challenged, I try to pep-talk the silent newbies, and I generally talk to everyone in a way that I believe is pretty informative about my of-then opinions about and desire to interact more with each.  Cat goes panic-level defensive and stays that way for one nice big post and another smaller response to Squill who challenged Cat about being so panic-level defensive.  These responses are not out of line with previous play.  Kleril goes belly up, going in one post from 'You are my vote' to 'You have got to be Town, and you're scary convincingly persuasively Town' with this awesome cosy feel and an absolute lack of any scumhunting - unless he's hunting me in a totally different way, through what sounds like practically worshipful praise and an already asked and answered question - 'This is your first game of mafia?'.  It's a bit hard for me to judge if this is Kleril or if this is Kleril speaking with someone else's suggestions, but wow it sure is different from earlier in play.

6)  I respond to Kleril with cuddles+probes and offer Cat a 'Don't panic' embroidered towel.  Cat comes back with the best play shown yet, though it includes a whole host of problems, including a nice set up IF they are the Scum team, and IF they think I'm fixed on Cat and buying Kleril's malarkey.  Suddenly Cat, who has barely mentioned anyone else in play does have things to say about others, and says them.  Including Kleril, in this weird category by himself, "kleril doesn't seem scum"... "He hasn't had enough activity of the late for me to tell..."  Wait, so why say he doesn't seem scum, if he hasn't had enough activity to tell?  Superblackcat's FOS/Town/Kleril post hits Griffinpup and Deathsword as being suspicious for not enough activity reasons, but "He hasn't had enough activity of the late for me to tell" Kleril gets to sit alone in the others category with a 'doesn't seem scum' mark?  This practically glows of 'doesn't belong here' to my eyes.

Well, by itself it is nothing but white noise.  It's meaningful at all only because of high suspicion that they're both Scum, and that there's in the moment high pressure upon one/both of the team, if team they are.  Considering that Kleril alone seems Scum (to me at least) and SuperBlackcat alone seems scum (to me at least), and Blackcat was more obviously headed towards the chopping block at that point (had a vote, more directly accused) and Kleril hadn't had even a blue finger actually lifted yet, for Superblackcat to weakly talk about Kleril's Townieness seems to me not a bad seed to plant into a post with a bunch of other white noise intended to hide the real message, that there's nothing at all, not even Cat ignoring Kleril, to point out Kleril as Cat's partner.

So its only purpose serves to help me, and possibly others, feel more secure that yes, there's evidence that through timing and weirdness does at least weakly support that this pair is a plotting Scumteam.  This helped me feel confident enough to warrant the post I wrote about it.  If I found evidence that seemed to contradict or did nothing to support, I'd have talked about that too, and possibly delayed the post until I felt there was more supporting evidence.



People interested in an Imp PoV on what's Scummy and what's reasonable about the first 9 play posts Superblackcat has made in this game, you have cause to open this second spoiler too.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Post 1) Instructions how to play, seems to encourage lynching today cause it has no penalty, but wording and logic is hard to follow for me.  I cannot evaluate this for scumhunting.  (shows no connection to or focus on any other player)

Post 2) Answer a question from Kleril about wording of post 1 that suggests you spoke as not being town with "It's just how I am used to refering to things...".  Question to an {IC} player, "What is the point of asking questions such as: What is your first mafia game?"  Statement that you "see no point and won't ask unless there's need that ties into the game."  No evidence of attempts to scumhunt I can recognize.  (no unusual focus or connection to anyone)

Post 3) Answer a question about the question you asked in Post 2, answer making it clear you feel the questions being asked (by everyone) are not relevant to the game - instead are random and that massive amounts of questions are also wrong to ask.  Answer a question about post 1, who were you talking to:  well you don't answer, you say I was pointing out that there was a free lynch we could do today. (you were talking to everyone).  No evidence of attempts to scumhunt I can recognize.  (shows no connection to or focus on any other player)

Post 4)  First decent length one, covers a bunch.  I like this much information, a LOT and a LOT BETTER than a short post - but it makes me work to attempt a brief summary.

Here you FOS Mr.Zero for "just trying to pin suspicion on everyone else" but himself and defend yourself from his challenges to you about your play by asking 'how are your words suspicious, it's how you play' (in his challenge to you he tells you exactly what's suspicious)

You also thank the IC for answering you, suggest that your suspicion (which?  At Mr.Zero?  That's the first and only suspicion you've claimed, and you said it less than 30 words before in the same post) may be wrongly placed because everyone's asking questions completely related to the game (huh?  That contradicts what you said in post 3)

You also answer my questions with another question about color (you already asked everyone the same question, huh.  I dunno what's up with that), provide a list of Mafia experiences which you say "are quite different from forum mafia" which you say you also have played but "it was not structured like this".  Huh... so you know how to play this Mafia or you don't?  It sounds like don't but then you state -clearly- for the first time, you prefer a night start, and the "smart thing to do on d1 with night start and a 7/2 is NL, and that happens everytime".  That sounds like you think you know what you're talking about, and what we should do to win.

Then you ask Luke for his FOS, you ask Mods if we can edit, you restate your FOS on Mr.Zero, and you end by asking everyone for top FOS and top TOWN.

Why ask Luke for his FOS when you ask everyone for that in the same post?  Why ask me about colors when in the same post you ask everyone?  Weirdness.  Weak attempt to scumhunt (PLace FOS, ask Luke/all for top FOS and top Town).   (Clear hostile focus on Mr.Zero [that's not bad, you even explain why - I think your reasoning, reaction, and style of defense are highly suspicious - but the focus itself is NOT BAD nor is letting us see how you think - if you look Town to me, I'm going to feel pretty comfortable writing off your mistakes as I look for stuff that doesn't look Town/truly looks like Scum.  Now, appear to think like a Scum, that person may swing like a Scum.]. Otherwise, no connection or focus on anyone - the partial focus on Luke and Imp to specifically question seems countered by asking the exact same question to everyone within 30 words of each specific question.  If that's a focus on Imp/Luke.... noted but ?).

Post 5  Directed to me alone.  You tell me you realize you didn't answer my question, that you like the discussion now just fine because its focus is scum hunting.  You clarify that you think not one No lynch, but two is best, purpose to extend time.  You then say the set ups are "foreign to you", you 'explain' why with speculative discussion about assumptions of if we have various roles, but then go on to state your beliefs about how the cop (if we have one) should play.  Then you ask me to tell you what I think should be done - you want "strategies of someone who have played these setups before" - I've already said I am inexperienced, so much so that I had to research what bus meant.  Weak evidence of scumhunting directed towards 1 player - I'll give you credit for asking my question back at me.   (some focus on Imp)

Post 6 Very brief answers to questions.  No questions asked.  No evidence of attempts to scumhunt I can recognize.  (shows no connection to or focus on any other player)

Post 7  Huge change in tone, the new tone is hugely defensive (for you as compared to your earlier posts).  This is very likely in response to my first really long post, specifically the portion that challenges you on everything scummy I believe I have seen in your posts 1-6, which is a lot and pretty detailed.  You identify Mr.Zero as attacking you over your answers to questions, you say what answers he is attacking you over (And get that wrong - you miss or completely avoid that he was NOT asking or attacking about your answers in three of his 4 questions.  He asked about your defensiveness/if you were hiding, why you didn't ask even a single question (you had, a very confrontational one to an IC - but it wasn't a confronting Scum sort of question, you were challenging how all of us were playing); why you had made post 1 and why you hadn't answered the question asked about post 1 before he asked (you 'answered' it in post 2, by saying 'that's just how I talk' - a worthless level of answer for this game's purposes, as you probably now understand, you might as well have answered '7' or 'yellow')  Everything else is defensive/deflective, mixed with anecdotes your previous mafia experiences, analysis of our game that claims that there's two choices, random lynch or no lynch (there's 3 - we can also process of elimination lynch, and remove not random - but scummiest - and possibly real Scum - that ain't random, but as of this post probably feels that you are the pick for lynch).

Tiny portion of the huge post directed to Mr.Zero. More challenges (challenges are good, with basis especially... yours has little, but one basis I can follow) "pointing fingers without evidence is NOT part of the mafia game" -he's not doing that in my eyes.  "Where have I attached myself to the findings of others?"  I agree you have not.  I agreed then (wasn't a big deal to me at the time), and I agree now as I peer at your words through the best 'microscope' I can manage.  You've done NOTHING I can see as of post 7 to attach yourself to anyone else's findings , or even to anyone else  This does bear discussion later, I intend to - if I don't get back to it before Monday, I'd like a reminder question.

(except strongly to Mr.Zero as your FOS [totally appropriate play, though your reasons presented seem like garbage because they are purely defensive/attacking him for a reasonable (to me at very least) form of scumhunting, and you show no attempt to expose his Scumminess through any method other than 'you say so and it is clearly evident'],

weakly to Deathsword as an IC voice you respect and trust as an IC voice [totally appropriate and reasonable - means nothing bad or good],

and weakly to me, either in an attempt to Scumhunt [good man, if so!], trust me and consider my directions [watch it... you probably liked how I talked if that's why, but is that -reason-?] or both [Very very good man!  If that one's true, you're really smart cause it's hard to pull off and maybe really effective when you can!  Why haven't you been showing that level of play it all along though?]

As of your Post 7, of course, you're really focused on me - I had just attacked you on every scummy thing I've seen you do - the list is long.  Your new strong focus on me appears completely understandable.  Not especially wise, not especially strategic, and how you respond is mostly Scummy.)  (weak scumhunting, directed only at Mr.Zero (shows only predictable connections to and focus on other players - nothing surprising or suspicious)

Post 8 Answering Squill, who did not ask, but stated a challenge.  Your tone is still purely defensive.  (shows no connection to or focus on any other player)

Post 9  Huge change in tone, the new tone is determined and better focused (for you as compared to your earlier posts - note clarity and focus are not ideal, but for you, this is your best and most 'I am a serious player trying to scumhunt' post yet.  This supports the conclusion that NOW AT LAST you are finally playing to win/survive at least.... but it also supports the conclusion that you are Scum listening closer to some darn good advice - and wow guy you've been Sooooo Scummy so far to me).  First evidence of serious attempt to scumhunt.  Initially directed at all by a restatement of your very first scumhunt attempt - list top FOS and TOWN picks.  Weak, largely unsupported attacks at 3 players.  A top town pick of Squill.  A declaration specifically about Kleril, contradictory towards itself - simultaneous that Kleril doesn't seem like scum, that Kleril hasn't been active enough to tell, and that he agrees with Kleril about me.  Agrees with what about me?  Doesn't seem like Scum but you can't tell cause not active enough?  These comments stick out of your post like they do not belong there.  They 'glow'.  A weak attack on Luke, agreeing with what I said (but you do say 'his answer being lacking' as why).  A revisiting of the specific questions from post 4, directed to their original recipients (Luke and I).  No other active Scumhunting - but wow, a great stride forward.  Did this come from Superblackcat by himself, compared to all his previous play?  Maybe, but that's worth a wonder to me, and maybe to us all.

(Lots of connections and focus here.  Expected connection/focus on Mr.Zero and Imp.  Mostly reasonable focus on Squill (had just been challenged by him, and this was mentioned.  But 'Like his reasoning'?  Squill's reasoned that he has to play cautiously and avoid confusion, says nothing about him thinking he should scum hunt.  He does nothing to scum hunt either.  I already analyzed Squill's behavior as of this point - it's in the behemoth.  It's in the ONLY SPOILER in the behemoth.  Squill promises to ask questions at 'some point' and doesn't for MANY DAYS, almost gets replaced for inactivity at one point even - or should have been - I challenge him for having already been inactive for over 48 hours for bleep's sake - and this is during a weekday period - in fact I can see SO LITTLE DIFFERENCE between Squill's and Luke's play and answers that I give them the exact same 'stand up, newbie' speech (and it's clear how into specifics and details I am by now, right?  Everyone's a unique case to me - but not them, nearly-identical-at-the-time-lurkyloos).  The only reasoning besides chiding Superblackcat that Squill shows us yet is with -evident- reluctance and with great delay, answering half a question at a time, to say that I'm either Town or Scum.  Duh.... we're -all- either Town or Scum).  How in blue blazes is this solid Town play?  Are people confusing -my questioning him- about what he would do as a doctor or a cop with -him trying to drop hints that he is a doctor or a cop-?  Madness.  Utter madness.  Sure, you can think me Scum, and we should all suspect all others of being Scum despite Top Town picks and whatnot - we're all maybe Scum at this point except to ourselves.  But even if you think I am Scum, surely you don't think -I know- who has a town role before the first chance to investigate happens?  Madness I say.  I'd love an explanation of what makes Squill seem 'so Town'.  I'd love a reminder if I need one about this, a spoiler's no place to hide it.  But it's not a primary focus here - it is discussed here because it IS a hint of out of the blue and this is a microscope level focus on this post that connects to him and him as top Town pick. I haven't already really explained what's so Scummy about Squill so it can't just be a link.]

(Odd focus on Deathsword and Griffinpup - possibly genuine, but really, never logging in from before game started is one of the very scummiest things you've seen in the game yet?  Doesn't seem like you worked very hard on that concept either).

(And now we come to your words about Kleril.  Out of the blue Kleril.  You contradict yourself about him, you say you agree with him about me (about what about me you don't say, which you DO say when you talk about agreeing with my words about Luke).)

Here's the only 'gee, is this a link to Kleril?' out of everything:  Because IF you are Scum (wow you look like it to me as of Behemoth) AND he is Scum (and wow, he looks darn scummy to me as of Behemoth too) then you ARE both singly Scum, and possibly ALSO working together in concert - long as you both know there's a Scum chat and are using it that is.  Two hours earlier, Kleril had just changed his posting tone, and in this so have you.  If you are both Scum, and if you both think I'm after you but maybe not so sure about Kleril (As of this post's time I was still measuring Kleril and had perhaps not been detectably doing so yet, so that's seems possible) you've made a nice post to support your buddy in the event of your eventual lynching - Gee, maybe Squill's your buddy.  Or maybe Mr.Zero who you've been yelling at most of the game, that's a good cover too - but who would ever suspect Kleril from your posts - why you don't even avoid talking about him - you make him seem faintly clean but without any strong basis.  A 'look in the corner move' if we cooperated with it. 

Post 9  A retraction post.  One of his top Scum picks, one given only a single reason for being Scum, that reason is corrected as being untrue and true behavior described.  Equally Scummy behavior from Deathsword?  I'd say not at all.  A plea for more activity from Deathsword.  Does raise my concern though - how long did Superblackcat have these 'other' FOS, and for 'these reasons'?  Was Deathsword on this list as a convenient addition just to pad it up to a better number and make it look like a more real list?  (Retraction/correction highly reasonable and responsible.  Lack of comment on how change of sole given reason for suspicion did or did not change FOS less so.)  (Shows no connection to or focus on any unexpected player)

[Persus13]

Thank you for the return of activity, Imp. Now can you answer my questions and discuss things post-Behemoth?

[Superblackcat]

I'm going to address two things Imp.

First of all, is my "Sudden focus" on kleril... That was his first post in 2 days or so, Why would I NOT focus on him? You guys focused on him, I focused on him, because he was back, and hopefully, active.

Secondly, You are telling me not to focus only on you (And frankly, I haven't) But they you continue to focus, solely, on me and kleril. Might I ask what is this contradiction doing?

Also, the nervous waiting was a pun like sentence based of your sig.

[Superblackcat]

I don't have time to address anything else. I'm at Chinese School :<

[Superblackcat]

Has Scum actually gotten help from the Scum IC?

[Superblackcat]

Sorry for multiple posts, I don't spend so much time reading and rereading, so When I got back to something, i remember that I had to address this and that etc.

@Imp
Anyways, I'm pretty sure I addressed most of the evidence you've brought against me before. I feel like you basically just re summarized your earlier posts, Did you actually bring any new evidence? I'm don't think so after reading your post twice. If you did however, and you would like me to address different parts of "me being scummy" Then please highlight it out in the next post, without it being behemoth. As much as I like how you write. It's too much.

[Imp]

New style of posts, guys.  Nearly everything in labeled spoilers.  Still going to be a mess to quote, but going to be much easier to ignore what you don't want to see twice and actually find what you do, I sure hope.  If anyone hates this style worse than what I was doing before, please be sure to let me know.

Spoiler: First a spoiler about my current take on 'others buddying me'... as well as on 'me buddying others': (click to show/hide)

I don't protest players getting chummy with me (yet - I may learn to, but for now I believe I can use it just like I can use any other interaction).  Furthermore, I'm arguably a Team builder if I get the choice and chance, both inside and outside my head.  To me, there's actually three major pieces of information each Town player has:  That you yourself are Town, that two are Scum, thus six others are your allies, only you and they don't know which six.  That sounds like team to me, just have to find the non-team.  I'm super comfortable with the idea of that feel in general - and am aware that there are Mafia games where there are unknown unknowns, unlike this one's known unknowns.  I can't always use it, but here I can and am.

Every player is unique to me (unless your play is so bland and non-committal that you taste like nothing, just like the other bland and non-committal player(s) beside you... if I taste that, I'll probably try to change it somehow) The way I interrogate one person might appear nothing like how I interrogate another.  'Chums' is a style that does not prevent information gathering and is not personally abhorrent to me.

Yes, I attempt to consider what the entire group of players' reactions, especially as a majority, thinks of my playstyle.  I'm well aware that if I seem to have bad goals in mind - which can be as simple as working on logic that fails to make sense to most of you - well my name's the easiest to type of us all this game.

Spoiler: There's concerns about my comfort with Mr.Zero, and some of you wonder about me and questions I don't ask (click to show/hide)

I'll be analyzing all of Mr.Zero's game posts some time soon - it'll be after some sleep.  Brief and non-microscope answer about 'why 'ignore' Mr.Zero, Imp!' to tide everyone over though:

Other than that first post he made that I mentioned I 'hated', I've pretty much believed I understood what he was saying in each post he made and the logic used has generally worked really well for me.

By and large, he has asked mostly questions I would have enjoyed asking and answered things much as I imagine myself answering them - though of course I would have used different (and probably many more) words to ask those same questions.

By my standards (which are partially set by the level of activity of the Town as a whole), he is doing an acceptable job of scumhunting - more than most and with more logic than most.  He's questioned some things I've not immediately seen, which have helped me notice them - after study I've generally at least tentatively agreed.  Not about everything, but what I've not liked, it hasn't looked Scummy.  Y'all want a glimpse of me reacting to something I don't like but which doesn't look like Scum to me, search the thread for me reacting to Rolepgeek.  Do remember this is primarily Pre-Behemoth analysis.  Day currently goes to Thursday at least, unless we want to shorten.  I'll be sleeping before I try to think too much more.

As of yet, Mr.Zero has failed to say anything that strikes me as wrong.  That does not mean I agree with everything he says or think that he has made no logical errors.  But I'm not seeing glowing flaws and bright 'manipulate Town in ways that lead away from a Town win' when I read his words and follow what I can see of his intentions.  That stuff's easy to chase, and some of you are repeatedly throwing stuff that is on that level.  I chase it and there keeps being more of it.  How much 'no, really, I am Scum' should I collect from someone before I say, "Ahh, guys?  Who else is seeing 'this'?"  My answer has been shown in my behavior, but I'm interested in others ideas.

I also evaluate people based on their interactions with others, not just myself towards them.  Even their interaction towards me, or its lack, tells me things.  What does someone do when I don't approach them for a while?

Sure, Mr.Zero is classifiable as 'middle of the line'.  Sure, middle of the line's a great place to hide.  But so's every other part of the line.  You may think my logic and ability to juggle multiple interrogations is effortless and limitless - I don't think so.

Some of the information I've noticed in this game have come not from answers to my questions - but answers to other peoples' questions.  I also learn stuff from how people interact, asking/answering or other interactions.  There's also only so much simultaneous serious interrogation I can conduct and sustain, though I hope to improve that with practice.  How sure do you need to be of someone's Scummy guilt before you say, 'I am sure'?  I do not believe I need to deeply stare into everyone's souls' before I can say my version of 'alright, I speak as Ma'at now, these ones look so bad I am ready to say, lets check these - do the rest of you agree?'

Would I like to look deeply at the guilt and innocence of every one of you?  Kinda.  Rolepgeek has demonstrated great anti-Imp ability so far.  I'm quite hoping that I can go through the rest of the game without attempting to read him deeply.  Seeing him obliquely wouldn't be as unpleasant.  If one of you/many of you were to take it upon yourselves to interrogate him deeply I'd consider it an absolute delight.  But when I said...

If I’m right, and we basically stop hunting now – I will leave this game with a very strong feel of three players.  A weak but acceptable to me (for day 1 at least) feel of three others, and no real sense of 2 of you.

...I meant it.  If everyone had essentially gone silent then AND if I am right about the two I considered (new analysis from me gets to wait, re:brain fried until some sleep achievement unlocks - no comment yet on what I think about them post behemoth) so likely to be our Scum, I'd leave the game with solid opinions of the playstyle and mentality (as pertains to this specific Mafia game) of Superblackcat, Kleril, and Luke.  I had and have weak and unsatisfactory reads of three others:  Squill, Mr.Zero, and Rolepgeek.  I have essentially no read of Deathsword or Griffinpup... that one's convenient since it's now Darvi, who I as yet also have no real read on.  I also want to know more about pretty much all of you (currently very not motivated to interact with Rolepgeek... that don't make him Scum or Town though).  Some of the information I've noticed in this game have come not from answers to my questions - but answers to other peoples' questions.  I also learn stuff from how people interact with others beside myself, answering questions or other.  I've asked a lot of questions - I am not going to try and stop that - but I also would like to observe others interacting more.

Spoiler: Oh yeah!  Question for everyone, as your answers may vary - Given all these flaws that I see, why does Squill look very Town to so many? (click to show/hide)

Squill promises to ask questions at 'some point' and doesn't for MANY DAYS.  Near as I can tell, he still hasn't, unless we want to count dropping opportune singles so sparingly.  I'm fine with that, but still.... he said!  And he didn't!

He should have been almost replaced for inactivity at one point - I challenged him for having already been inactive for over 48 hours for bleep's sake - and this is during a weekday period.  Why don't any of you care about that?  And he probably WAS lurking - because once challenged, he sure spoke up fast.  -Thank you for that Squill.  But really, behaving good once you get challenged for behaving bad makes you solid town - is Squill being given a break because of wish fulfillment?

In fact, early on I can see SO LITTLE DIFFERENCE between Squill's and Luke's play and answers that I give them the exact same 'stand up, newbie' speech (and it's clear now how into specifics and details I am, right?  Everyone's a unique case to me - but not them, nearly-identical-at-the-time-lurkyloos).

People are praising Squill's reasoning from back when the only reasoning besides chiding Superblackcat that Squill had shown  was with -evident- reluctance and with great hesitation, answering half a question at a time, to say that I'm either Town or Scum.  This game we're -all- either Town or Scum.

I don't disagree with his assessment, and I even like Squill (OK, I'm fond of most of you, even the ones I prepare to help string up), but how in blue blazes is this solid Town play?

Are people confusing -my questioning him- about what he would do as a doctor or a cop with -him trying to drop hints that he is a doctor or a cop-?

Madness.  Utter madness.  At this point, no matter what role I drew, how could I possibly know his role yet?

I really expect more from Squill.  I like his contributions, I just wish.... more of them, yeah.  Oh!  In that, he does seem to be a typical Townie to me

Now I survey for questions:  I see none for me from Kleril.

Spoiler: Squill doesn't ask me anything, but offers an interesting comment, so I ask him and all a question about it (click to show/hide)

Imp, while two of your points against kleril are valid, I feel like the first one is a bit invalid.

That's part of why I didn't state that I am highly sure that someone (Kleril, over 90% rationally and emotionally both and I greatly believe still, but that needs sleep before I can confirm; Superblackcat, somewhere over 50% rationally and emotionally, still, though I am very pleased to see great improvement in his play and have not yet had a chance to properly 'dig in' and consider all subsequent posts, and I am pretty sure I feel less certain than I had (which is good) but that's a lot of Scummy play over a long posting time and a lot of interaction to believably reclassify as mistake, whoops, all better now, Town all along).

Anyway - Squill and all - What about the points that you feel are valid, as well as the invalid ones?  How much Scum do we need to find in a player, what probability do you need to find or whatever makes you decide 'alright, I agree or not', before you say 'gotcha' or 'throw them back, that's Town'?

I believe I am 100% likely to be wrong in one or more things I believe about the Scumminess of Kleril and Superblackcat.  I am willing to believe I am actually completely wrong (I'll be far easier to convince of that with Superblackcat than Kleril) not about the Scumminess, but about it meaning that either is actually Scum or not (and I don't want to lynch Town) if there's evidence that I missed or misinterpreted which is convincing - and explains away the whole.  Given that I'm probably not right about everything I observe and interpret - do you feel that the case(s) is(are) valid on what you yourself observe and interpret?

Spoiler: Superblackcat: (click to show/hide)

For the Behemoth attack... What?...

Only way I can see to interpret that 'question' is that you disagree/don't understand anything in it that attacks you.  That you're saying every point I make is gibberish with no connection to reality.

I'm going to call that defending yourself by being defensive, suggest that's not very effective, and move on to the next question I can find from ya.

You are saying he[Kleril] is scum because he gets a towntell on you?

Nope.  I'm calling him Scum for the whole kit and kaboodle of his entire game behavior.  I'm saying he's as Scummy as my posts are long, heck, he's as Scummy as this D1 has been long and is likely to get longer.  Towntells by themselves have null value, I suspect most of use get them at some point or will, and other players have suggested I may feel Town to them - the reason I didn't call them on it is that isn't Scummy and that alone certainly isn't Scummy.

Nope, Kleril and I 'danced', he let me get a great feel of him.  Kleril, if you are Town, how DARE you act so much like a Scum.  If you're Town you're job's not to act like a Scum, for that matter if you're Scum your job's not to act like a Scum.

He is scummy, in relation to the 'Towntell' because of how he rolled over.  Because of how he accused me (-that- it was me is a null value to me, but -how- he answered and failed to answer both me and others was terrible and just kept getting worse), his extremely limited quantity of Scum hunting (what he did with me was NOT scumhunting I rather solidly believe - he dropped words and bailed, then turned belly up and lied) and a host of other points.  I discuss his behavior because it says, as a whole, 'this player is not working towards a Town win'.  And it says it incredibly loudly to me.  His 'bad behavior' is, to me, worse than yours.

I don't understand your second post at all, and your links don't work. You are saying he is scum because he gets a towntell on you?

Again, thank you for info about broken links.  Huge thank you.  Are you still confused about the 'second post'?  If you're not asking about that Towntell or if you have more questions about it, please ask.

For your first part. I believe I said squill because whatever someone said made sense. It coincided with what I remembered, and I mentioned him

I'll ask you to keep trying to improve - you're improving, but I want more from you.  That's not a promise that I will successfully reevaluate you as innocent, but I swear to you I am trying even as of this moment and your showing your thinking, and even your growth in thinking, will be helpful to my and others' decision-making processes.  I don't want to mislynch.  I don't want to waste my time.  'Resolving' what I see as your likely Scumminess is pretty darn important to me too, not just you, and I will be happier to realize that I'm wrong about you (much happier) than if you are innocent but unconvincing and get lynched and are Town.  I'll be quite annoyed that you showed so much Scumminess - but I'll also be annoyed that we cannot establish your innocence or not correctly.  Your behavior has given me (maybe us) a nicely challenging puzzle - how the heck can you seem so Scummy but not be Scum?

1)  Explain perfectly and be believed.  (this may be the harder path -this may be the less valuable path for Town)
2)  Someone successfully reveals the Scum that you are not and we as a whole (even if that doesn't include me) agree that they are the better lynch.  (You could be that someone.  I intend to help - I'd love to find someone else I'm more sure is Scum than you.  I have one - Kleril.  Get me another somehow, Kleril can't clear you - he can only possibly clear himself and not by using you.  Try and find a way to trigger the real Scum to mess up or something.  There are currently 7 sets of Town eyes in this game - and that's true no matter if you are Scum, or if I am.  Help Town win.

So:  Does it make sense that Squill could be Scum, but still have said what he did?  I find your rapid grab of him as Top Town for you to be 'convenient', not 'reasoned and genuine'.  If you are just doing stuff because it makes sense at that very second, you're going to look steadily more Scummy to me, because I don't believe that a winning Town strategy.

You may only be able to look at single acts of behavior and make judgments only from that one thing.  This is a terrible weakness and not just in Mafia.  I respectfully suggest it to be a potential fatal flaw in a wide range of areas.  It also doesn't convince me of your own innocence if you have this flaw, because it supports both your play both as Town and as Scum.  That alone means nothing - but I believe you've done a ton of anti-Town stuff, and I've listed it as clearly as I have in more than one place.  You want a link, you just ask.  You want to discuss specific points, you just do so.  But I recommend finding the real Scum, if that's not you, as the easier and more useful path. 

Secondly, My opinion of you, is that I do not know if you are scum or town, Right now, because of this post, you seem scum to me. But I feel like that is a biased view, as you just accused me. I said that what you said had a lot of sway in this game. That's the part I agree with, Not anything about you being scum/town. I have not decided, so you were not under anything. I thought long and hard where to put you, and I couldn't decide. You didn't make either list.

Alright.  Consider my suspicion of why I didn't make your list successfully explained away.

But I have a new question in its place.  I agree with your assessment of your behavior.  A lot.  You are making a ton of sense to me in what you're saying, and why.  You are showing a lot of understanding in what you are saying - which is GREAT.  Except.... We've been playing for a couple weeks now.  And I just got through inspecting your first 9 posts, really really closely.  Anyone else following along, especially Townies in this game - that post is HERE in the second spoiler, right below the green text.  Compare along with me if you have any doubts - use it as a way to investigate me instead of him if you wish - but then compare his posting style, comprehension levels, self awareness levels, personality.... can go into vocabulary, complexity of thought... the list is long...

Superblackcat (or Mr. Mentor), how do you explain the incredible difference, the expansion and growth, that suddenly appears in your play, then rapidly strengthens and grows.  Have you experienced some sort of epiphany, and if so, can you convince us that is more likely, than that you have a skilled, though malicious towards Town, advisor?

You seem to understand Imp very well... Might you be getting clarifications, or just frankly status updates with eachother... in a certain thing called Scum chat?

You two seems to be working together. It wasn't very apparent in the previous posts, but because of that post, I've noticed you guys have basically agreed on everything.

That's towards Mr.Zero more than me, but I'm included enough and want to answer in part.  In case you missed it, top of this post I discuss my attitude about me and buddying.  Just below that, I discuss (without in depth analysis) my lack of disagreement with Mr.Zero so far, and I promise an upcoming in depth analysis to follow later.

I'd prefer you to remember and so repeat, especially if I am proved to be Town at some point, that my innocence does not and can not prove anyone else's innocence - especially not those who were suspected as my Scumbuddies before my alignment was shown to all.

Why do you guys even bother to hold things close to the chest, as you guys call it. As you guys can die at any night, Give away any and all information you notice, don't hold your 2nd fos close to the chest. No point in doing so. If you die with important information... Well, We missed it. However, if you die with the information spewing out of your mouth. Guess what, Someone may have killed you for that.

I greatly agree.  Gosh, I wonder so very very much, when I tried so hard to draw you out before, why did you respond so differently?  You don't sound scummy in this at all.  Why did you before?  If you think like this then you always did, right?  Why did you act so confusingly before?  How did you conflict your ideas/speak so unclearly before and improve so very much now?  That's something I've been talking about being a concern since my mini Behemoth, and you never really answered those charges.  You seem... so different maybe you can answer it now?  I am not asking about now - I understand and see how much more like Town you are behaving now.  But why were you acting so differently then?

To sum up the scuzziness that I see from you:  You tend to answer only fragments of the questions that others ask you, and typically these answers do not really answer the questions.  You are taking very few actions which appear to be scum hunting or otherwise pro town. 

Superblackcat, if you are Town I really hope you show it, loud, clear, strong, and soon.

Woo!  You are showing Townness now, lots of it!  So very much so very fast, I now I wonder, and ask Town to wonder, if it is reasonable to believe that you could have improved this much this fast of your own ability and determination; or if this is actually further...  strong suggestion... that you are taking advantage of some resources accessible to Scum - namely a Mr. Mentor well able to help you if you let him.

Humans very rarely show as much growth and change as you have in this time period, even given motivation.  Generally they behave more like Luke did - he really didn't change no matter what I said.  And if I were your English teacher, I'd wonder who was your writing coach now.

ehhh... Rolepgeek... Has flown under my radar the whole time. Therefore, Rolepgeek, would you please list who you think is scummy? (2 min) and who you think is most town like (2 min).

I really appreciate other people questioning Rolepgeek.  It cannot possibly convince me Scummy ain't cause of Scum (other things can) but it saves me one or more headaches and some probably extremely unpleasant posts and makes me feel -very- favorably inclined towards the people who do it.  Reasons are he tastes HORRIBLE to me, and if we all can find the Scum without me having to directly interact with his ideas and words more than the minimum needed, I'll be smiling more than otherwise, and the Scum will still be found.

Does NOT mean I'm telling him not to question me.  Does mean I'm claiming I'd rather not question him directly myself because of Yuck.  Yuck!

Spoiler: Darvi Dearest: (click to show/hide)

Sweet mother of everything that's holy. Imp, do something about your posts, nobody reads walls of text. (And if somebody claims otherwise, then let me just emphasise that in the grand scheme of things, they are nobodies. Take that, existentialism!)

I can't help it, this is one of the ways I suck.  I'm sure one game or another I'll have it beaten out of me.  I doubt I'll get too much better in a couple weeks or less though even if every one of you gets a stick and sets to - unlike our esteemed Superblackcat, I fear I'm just not in the top 1 percentile of how fast a human can improve, even with all the help you and everyone else playing are surely eager to offer.

I do hope this new spoiler system I'm trying is useful.  This way people can 'shut out' what they're not looking for and see what they want to see more easily, perhaps.  That is my intention at least.

I'm getting 'heat' for not challenging enough people in play.  I may or may not change because of that.... but if I do - it's not going to make my posts significantly shorter.

At best, the length of your rants hides your lack of questioning over the last few days.

Gosh.  And I even gave two type of reasons:

PFP, or at least under vast time pressure.  Expect me to be mostly silent, though not absent, until Thursday evening.

Sadly, that makes me view the rest of you as essentially confirmed Town.  Even the worst of you, I really think you’re Town worst.  I can go through the motions, and I’m interested still and all – but until I see that I’m wrong about one or both of these being Scum… I’m so convinced that I don’t have much drive to hunt y’all anymore.

I’m so convinced I don’t even really feel driven to question –them- anymore.  I tried to get them to prove their innocence, but they just keep looking Scummier.

Posting from work, so super brief (for me) and incompletely answering for now - My most likely time to be able to reply properly is Sunday, though if at all possible I'll do so sooner.

Who cares about the last few days?  I said why, time pressure and gosh, I think I found two Scum, what do the rest of you think? (what reaction do you two Scum-looking players have?)

How many scum in a known unknown game am I supposed to look for?  How many questions am I supposed to ask, especially when for various reasons I feel like I've asked more than any and done great good with my questions?  Sure, you're motivating.  You and everyone are helping me get my motivation back (having more time doesn't hurt either).  I'm SUPER DUPER interested in watching you all interact, by any chance with these many thousands of words, have I maybe said enough that it makes sense for me to listen some?  I'm trying too, I think it makes sense!

You've done a bunch of reasoning, nice. But are you certain that's all there is? This is day 1, and nothing is for sure.

Sniffle.  I thought I did a lot more than reason.  Doesn't the time ever come when the questions (from me) pause, the case is presented, and I who have questioned so much listens, listens, listens, and responds?  Besides, I claim serious, massive, current school pressure; all that AND unforeseen work pressure too.  You're doing good Imp, I says to me, yes you are.  Thanks Imp, I reply.

If you want people to be more active, then do what you preach and do something.

Any other two people (I bet Rolepgeek is willing to be one of these, with the addendum that it's not that I'm not doing anything, it's that I'm not doing anything useful, that's his beef with me) want to agree with Darvi here?  Come on, surely you want to.  Call me lazy.  Call me inactive.  Tell me I'm not doing something, and furthermore that I've been inactive when I haven't said I needed to be or failed to return as promised after a 'reasonable' time gone.

Just nobody tell me I make posts that are too long.  We're trying to only speak truths here, right?

Thanks for the tickle, Darvi.  I am feeling more motivated.  Can't confirm that you're a major reason why, yet. but you're part of it and I'm grateful.

Also, you shouldn't judge people by whatever link you see between them. Save that for if one of them flips scum.

I can see a good-number of reasons already why that might be a neat detail to reveal later, thanks.  I find this highly useful advice, though yes, I know it's player not {IC} voice.

what's our next collective step? Or should we discuss this after mafia get in their NK?

Our collective step, as always, is to scumhunt. Simply because Luke is a dead ringer for the D1 lynch doesn't mean we're gonna stop and wait for the next day. So if you're certain he's scum, look for his scumbuddy. If not, then try to convince the group who else should be lynched. Maybe this results in somebody else than Luke being lynched. Which is a good thing, as complacency is one of the reasons town loses.

This goes for everybody, by the way.

And then what?  You find the two who you think are really likely Scum, no you're not sure sure sure sure sure about both but wow, your newbie Scum senses are all atingle and you've done the best you think you can to show your evidence - and you present to everyone and people talk and stuff - so obviously you keep watching and talking but what -else- do you do?

What's that next step besides stay involved and let people think when not answering them and watching everything and questioning yourself to make sure you still think you have solved the puzzle?

{The other player can start actually playing like town. That is a good thing. It means they are scumhunting and stuff, and that leads to town winning. At that point, you can remove your vote, maybe keeping your finger of suspicion on them just as a warning.}

Though, this is BM, where the Scum can 'suffer' though some pretty awesome training in the 'safety of the Scumchat' with their very own and sometimes very awesome Scum IC, and might then come back to play with a whole bunch of flaws suddenly gone, though yep they are still Scum cause that's not what changed.

But this is alright, right?  Because unless the 'bait and switch' of thought process and writing content happens pretty darn subtly, why then 'a sudden vast improvement that seems unlikely considering the prior days' postings... good answers replacing 'recent, highly different and denser play' in a BM is a likely Scum tell and is a good reason to stay suspicious of a 'wow, what changed in your thinking, you are now GREAT!' kinda way?

Zero: What makes you think SBC is more suspicious than Luke?

Well Luke is playing stupid, while SBC is acting scummy. I can actually see Luke in me, at least my first mafia game waaay back. I see no reason to vote for stupidity over scumminess, also so far SBC hasn't even tried to show that he is town trying to help town.

Rolepgeek: Looks like town to me. He acts a bit passively but it doesn't match the shit SBC,Luke and Kleril's (Because of the points Imp has shown) have pulled off.

Luke: Recent acts show that he is more town than scum, though his actions can aid the scum.

Please explain why you think that makes her scummy and not just a newbie flailing around trying to get a grip? (That sounded meaner than I intended to, but my inability to give a damn prevents me from changing it) Also, you say Luke is playing stupid, yet you implicitly call him scummy right afterwards. Explain this inconsistency. [Giving examples is always good, as is asking them. Even if you have a good idea of how somebody behaves, having somebody else give their opinion is a nice way of confirming your reads or putting them into question. Also, unless you heavily disagree, you shouldn't give your own opinion first. Because, if the reply is similar, how can you tell it hasn't been influenced by what you said earlier?]

@Darvi, ffs. That's hypocracy, you mention behemoths and you create one yourself. I tried to fork that thing over into neat quotes but it's too much of a hassle as i have trouble spotting what is directed at me and isn't. I will gladly answer every question you have if you show a clear indication that the question is directed at me. Also cut that style, it's more of a pain to read than Imp's.

I confused.  Darvi says something that makes my brain go Oh!  Interesting.  Darvi also says something that makes me go 'what.' 

And then Mr.Zero's response makes me go 'what.'

I'm putting this in Darvi's spoiler area too because some of my related unaskable/not yet askable questions maybe should go to him, and there's no 'what.' or 'applause' or even 'lightbulb' smiley so this puzzle will have to sub for both.

Darvi, if I'm getting what you're teaching here, I would like more lessons like this.

Mr.Zero, I hope this new method of heavy spoiler useage makes it easier to read and thus answer.  I'm willing to help make sure questions to you (or anyone) are findable.  It's probably good for us all to find our own, but I'm getting soooo comfortable with this quoting stuff and all.  And I'm really interested in your answer.

Imp is getting too comfortable with their picks. That sounds like scum pre-emptively deciding on the lynches because fuck scumhunting, you know you can trust them. Right?

Really?  Wake me up beginning, wake me up end.  Yep, still awake, thanks for checking. 

Imp, are you scared of my biting snarkasm or do you just think you're no match for my wit and charm?

Sir!  Yes Sir!  All three Sir!

Meh.  I work darn hard for my finds and then I give them to everyone and I listen and I think and I debate and and I want to win so bad.  I'm probably wrong on some things, I'll call it a miracle if I'm right on even 80%.  But I found a TON of evidence  Even if it's all junk it sure looks convincing to me and I worked my neurons off for a lot of it.  While working a 40 hour workweek and taking organic chemistry AND during a week that included first exam as well as some surprise extra super time consuming stuff at work.  And I'm trying to play in a way that's not harmful to the game or any of the players in it, or likely to give anyone that bad burned feeling of 'wow, that game sucks' even if they probably have trouble not feeling that way because of triggers and really wanting to win and feeling blocked.

Just keep teaching best you can, and me too please, between whatever tickles you feel are necessary?  That's all I'll ask for.  Oh, I may have more and better questions for you soon too.  Just not tonight, I'm tired and already tried to do a lot for my Town today.

Spoiler: Question from Darvi to Mr.Zero, because I wonder what your answer is and I'm willing to help (click to show/hide)

Please explain why you think that makes her scummy and not just a newbie flailing around trying to get a grip? (That sounded meaner than I intended to, but my inability to give a damn prevents me from changing it) Also, you say Luke is playing stupid, yet you implicitly call him scummy right afterwards. Explain this inconsistency. [Giving examples is always good, as is asking them. Even if you have a good idea of how somebody behaves, having somebody else give their opinion is a nice way of confirming your reads or putting them into question. Also, unless you heavily disagree, you shouldn't give your own opinion first. Because, if the reply is similar, how can you tell it hasn't been influenced by what you said earlier?]

@Darvi, ffs. That's hypocracy, you mention behemoths and you create one yourself. I tried to fork that thing over into neat quotes but it's too much of a hassle as i have trouble spotting what is directed at me and isn't. I will gladly answer every question you have if you show a clear indication that the question is directed at me. Also cut that style, it's more of a pain to read than Imp's.

This confuses me.  I'm willing to help make sure questions to you (or anyone) are findable.  It's probably good for us all to find our own, but I'm getting soooo comfortable with this quoting stuff and all.  And I'm really interested in your answer

Mr.Zero, I hope this new method of heavy spoiler useage makes it easier to read and thus answer.

[Imp]

'Spoiled' by this one long reply, continued...

Spoiler: Persus13 has been waiting for this.  I typed it last and parts of it (ooh invited to 'discuss'...) are nearly stream of consciousness for I am a very tired imp now (click to show/hide)

Thank you for the return of activity, Imp. Now can you answer my questions and discuss things post-Behemoth?

Imp: Now that Kleril seems to be attacking SBC do you think that they're trying to bus SBC or you were just incorrect about the two being scumbuddies?

Still deciding.  I still think I see suggestive clues that supports the theory that they are a team with privileged information.  I have already posted of that, and you ask me about after Behemoth, which I'm still chewing on.  Together, all this info since is way more than I gave in Behemoth, working on it hard and with very limited inputs back as yet from Kleril, which would be helpful.

No piece of evidence is, to my eyes, a smoking gun.  This thing is a whole.  Gestalt and all, it's both each piece separately and a whole together and in order to be true, it all has to work together to be a whole.

I can see reason to support my being incorrect about either of them, and also, though I believe far less likely, that I am wrong about both.

For Superblackcat, I believe it would require these errors to be attributable to a mixture of:

innocent mistakes

extreme inexperience

deep conviction that he is probably already right no matter what multiple others say and any actual double checking he does himself

an unwillingness to read the opening post until extremely recently

an unwillingness or inability to count the number of players in play with himself for any reason at any point until VERY recently (or just have a basic confusion between 7 and 9)

AND an ability to suddenly (though not necessarily spontaneously) improve greatly with unbelievable speed.

Or I'm just more sure than should be.  I'm willing to accept that I'm fooling myself, but I'd like help seeing it.  He really didn't do anything 'damning and inexplicable' in my eyes, he just has looked more and more like Scum to me with most every post, be it from 'urging plans that seemed likely to fail' to 'enthusiastic failure to hunt' to 'failure to indicate a strategy I could understand might be highly successful in combining his no-lynch platform with, you know, winning'.  Best I could see what 'it'll just happen, do it and you'll see, we've done all we need to do today once we've voted no-lynch'.  Cause, that's what it appeared to me to be what he was doing, despite many different flavors of 'and how?'.

But assuming we decide that his 'I can't tell how many players I'm playing beside' defense is adequate and believable... that he actually cannot tell '7' from '9', yet does have all the other mental faculties that his performance to date suggests... and his sudden vast improvement in play makes sense too...  He's going to be fine.  It's not like he lied or anything - unless he lied about the numbers and perception.  Can't tell you're playing beside 8 other people, not 6 other people for a full two weeks?  No glance down the vote count, nothing?  Nothing?  I'm going to be a hard one to sell that too, but if the rest of you buy it there's nothing I can do - and hey, if I'm wrong, help me.  I want to count to 9 too, if I'm only counting to 7 and thinking wrong thoughts and don't realize I am.

For Kleril, much the same errors of thought and judgment, but he did something far more guilty-seeming in my eyes -

I think I caught him lying.  Not like Superblackcat's 'I want you to believe that I can't tell 7 from 9, really, but I realize my mistake and everything was always a misunderstanding, see I behave good now', nope, he changes how he talks - but just to me; in the same threads he talks to others quite differently.  He attempts to talk to me similarly to how I talk; he speaks words of praise, he tells me and all with VERY strong words that I have gone, instantly, for him from vote to Top Town (never mind that he failed utterly to explain his reasons for that vote in a fashion I find believable... that's actually a smaller issue even though that appears to be a way to change the subject from his previous Scummy behavior), he speaks 'honeyed words of poison', backhanded compliments that seem calculated to express for my viewpoint 'Imp is great' and also quiet and soft, as if hoping to slip them past me under the message of 'Imp is great' he also says 'But Imp is terrible, fear Imp, fear what Imp can be'.

Now that's great.  That's GREAT!  That could be a trap.  That SHOULD be a trap.  I'm fine with traps!  I expect them!  I welcome them from skilled and unskilled alike - this is a game where traps are good!  So I dance with him.  I try to mirror his mirroring me - I remind 'sure, trap me, but don't get trapped - you haven't exactly done the right things...

He chooses to keep dancing, and now he tries to explain away his odd behavior earlier with a variant of 'I messed up cause I'm like you, I made the same mistake you did'.  Only I check it, and it tastes false.  It tastes of lies, and I tell him this, in the language we are both speaking, even if both of us don't know what these words mean - you are caught, what are you going to do -

And he says, I keep dancing, but I'm going to get a little stern, because I don't like how you are dancing.  So I say back, Really?  And I close the trap.  Because why would a Townie lie?  Trap me - really?  Lying to trap me?  You're smart enough to step up and dance, and that's your strategy?

And he STILL had an out.  He could have shown his trap.  Even a bad one.  But he didn't, he claimed I blew traps that were never meant for me (Huh?  You lie to -me-, talking to -me- so very clearly, with the purpose of trapping another person?  'what is this I don't even.' and 'what how can work that?' in this sort of game, especially when your claimed prey is SBC - by this I mean making loads of mistakes and acting really scummy?

Seeing as how everyone's kept their second top FOS played close to their chests, I thought it'd be a smart play to follow suit. Had things played out differently, I would have come out here and said that SBC was who we all should be voting next round. Way to go, Imp. You dragged it out of me. It didn't need to happen, and now the scum's play is going to change accordingly, now that it's in writing.

@Imp's behemoth attacking me:
Re: 1) Nothing I would have said about cat hadn't already been brought up by other players. It's not helping town any if my contributions are entirely redundant forms of entire redundancy.

And also he says, 'But we were dancing!  I like you!  How can you attack me!  If I was going to try and lie to you, I'd have done it from the beginning, not a couple days after start of play!'  wut.

2) This is faith I have placed in you, based on how you've been playing. I have no fact to back it up, but this is what I believe. If I had facts (i.e. if I was scum), things would be different, and this convincing would have been from post one, and not 5 or so pages in. Use your head.

And also he says, 'No, really.  I don't understand.  You didn't catch nothing and what you say about how I don't see like you even though I say I did, you're just saying nothing.'  What he apparently ALSO doesn't understand is that there's NO WAY for those posts to mislead him.  When  Deathsword posts, how the HECK does ANYONE misunderstand and think that somehow Deathsword's account is placing a vote against Deathsword from some player whose name is red in Deathsword's post?

3) It's day one, and where votes have been placed has been established as more of a scumhunting tool than anything. Using the votecount alone, and not the posts to justify them, is useless.

This is just blind panic defense.  And he -told- me by being able to talk pretty good like me that he wasn't totally stupid.  It's next to impossible for me to believe he's just some human Amazon Parrot or something who genuinely doesn't understand the words, or know what it means when you use them.  Luke - ok, could have been 12.  But 12 year olds rarely can use words to dance with any level of skill.  What I see is stupid lies.  And no reason for Townie to use them.  Not even to showboat.

I even THEN try to give him an out.  I direct him to scum hunting, something he should have been doing all along, duh, but distinctly wasn't working very hard on before he called our dance - and didn't really get very far because his claims were so outlandish that really, there's no dance.  I also specifically warn, yawn, don't hunt only Superblackcat.  Cause, he's rather firmly being looked at right now.  Look at Cat too - sure.  But it's not going to convince -me- that you're hunting to chase after the obvious target.  I'm perfectly happy -already- to say yes, the one of you who is not you is guilty.  But to get me to agree that YOU are innocent, you need to either convince me you made multiple and ongoing completely Townie choices that just happen to all be so terribly terrible, but yeah, you ARE Town (Blink blink Waste of space? blink blink Don't lynch Town if avoidable blink blink Who to lynch instead?)

After all, I say BOTH are guilty, and I believe I've found and presented a ton of evidence on both of them.  Some of it may be wrong, but is most of it?  Keep in mind, if you want to judge them on my observations and interpretations being 100% correct - Ok, I'm not perfect, but am I wrong about so much that they don't look like Scum, really?  So the easiest way out is to find someone Scummier.

You specifically ask what I think about Kleril seeming to attack SBC.  I think it's dumb.  Even if he gets even better proof against SBC, how's that supposed to get Kleril's neck out of the noose?  I think this situation is such so that IF they are both Scum, bussing cannot save them, but I'm really not convinced that either of them plays well enough (except is there Mentor smiling on?) to understand 'bus or not bus in this case'.  I think mentor would say no to bus... but who knows how well they listen.

So my biggest (but not only) question about SBC.... how'd he get better so fast?  Can that be explained without Mr Mentor?  Could he have someone else helping him?  We're not supposed to talk to each other, but the rules don't forbid us from trying to ask someone not in play....  Seems good to me.  How to prove it's outside help, or really him and not Mr Mentor?  Well.... that's hard.  I'll let others maybe solve that one.  Besides, he make me work so hard!  If he can play good, why'd he make me work so hard first while playing so badly?  I am so not convinced.

And my biggest question about Kleril is 'why lie'.  That whole lynch all liars thing.  If he's brave enough to risk looking like Scum to set a trap - go for it.  Doo eet.  Make it clear what you're doing when you succeed - or fail.  Then it's not a lie, it's an 'oh really.  Really?  Really?'  And maybe alright.  What in blue blazes makes anyone think I want to lynch them, if they are actually Town?  How the heck am I scary.  I'm just Scum hunting as best I can think how.

Spoiler: One thing Persus said bugs me.  And one thing no one's said yet bugs me too - a spoiler meant for all. (click to show/hide)

Bye Luke, who ate so much of my time.... Hi Persus13!  I've been very very very eager to be in a Mafia game with you.  Have been from before play started, and haven't been quiet about it at all off the thread either.  But the switch to you threw Luke's role to me from 'known to be impenetrable' into no read on you.  Which leads me to present my one beef that I know I have with you so far.

I viewed Luke as town even before I got my role PM.

I strongly feel the information gained from Luke was that no information could be gained from Luke.  Does any other player here think Luke -was- Town, and would have behaved differently if only he were Scum?  Is anyone here comfortable with Persus's assertion that he felt Luke was Town?  Other than 'I imagine it', does anyone see grounds for the claim?

I see it as emotional manipulation of us as a whole.  It glows to me.  It's fine for Persus to think it and receive verification or not - but to walk in from outside, to speak in a primarily strong Town voice (So glad you are except for this!) and then to drop that in amongst the good solid Town stuff (sounds good and solid to me, 'cept for that), well I could spit.  That kind of manipulation often flies under the radar, it attempts to set up and support a bias towards it being true without needing proof, and that, especially if not noticed, is often super effective.  To me that's the only scummy thing Persus13 has said so far, but it by itself is pretty serious to me as it is subtle and to my understanding of human psychology, very powerful.  (not as serious as Superblackcat's Scumminess, especially not as serious as Kleril's, but wow, up there).  Also I add that if Persus had not mentioned that detail, he'd look really, really, really Town to me.  Persus, my only request of you at this point is to please help me understand how you could possibly say that in this situation, considering how intelligent and perceptive you have given me proof that you are (even in only considering this thread and your behavior so far).

While I'm on the 'what's up with Persus' kick, I'm going to bring up another related point that no one has mentioned (yet).  This one's not about Persus, it's about me.  I sure hope several of you were already thinking about this, because it seems blindingly obvious to me.  If I wasn't me, I'd be talking about it.  If Imp is Scum, then Imp wants and needs most Townies dead.  As Scum, I may or may not care which order Town dies in, but it's downright weird for me to fight against a lynch of any Townie - however I'm going to have reason to attempt to protect my scumbuddy unless it's in my better interest to throw him or her away.

I was the multiple-methoded poster who tried nearly every trick in the book to get Luke involved... Including swearing that I would use every skill I had to make Luke the first one chosen for lynching if Luke wouldn't get active.  And Luke didn't.  I started that lynch, both as a person talking about lynching, then as the first voter.  It grew to 5 votes upon Luke, with no response from Luke before I stepped in, and as part of my attack upon both Cat and Kleril as the two top Scum I then used hundreds of words in an attempt to be highly convincing as to why to 'not lynch Luke'.

I claim my reason as 'Luke's third Scummiest, and shouldn't die first, we have better targets', exactly what I said in that post.  That's a great Town reason, and one, if I am Scum but Luke is not, I could really easily have saved for some other time. The way I threatened Luke I made it clear I supported the lynch even if he was Town, as Scum I probably would have gotten away pretty much clean should Luke prove Town because of Luke's behavior.  If I am Scum, my reason to care about Luke is probably pretty direct - I meant to save my Partner if I could.  This is a newbie game, and it would probably fly.  In fact, if I failed to save Luke, I'd still be in a pretty safe spot, no worse than before.  But if I did save Luke, then Luke would have a pretty good chance to go on without me if no one realized 'Wait, remember what Imp did?'

Also what in the hell is scum chat?

... I also made sure to answer that question, and in significant detail.  That is because I answer stuff that I believe I know the answer to, especially if it can effect play - I will answer and answer FAST because I love a good game.   If I am Scum with a blind partner, that's a great way to try and get the buddy's attention.

Which is why I mention it.  First, when it comes up, it's going to be hella distracting.  I say it now, rather then keep quiet and wait for 'whenever'.  Second -   When I die, remember my alignment can be used as evidence of likely guilt, but NOT of likely innocence.  DO NOT FORGET THAT.  If I am not Scum, that does not clear any likely Scumbuddy of mine.  In fact - that's a great ploy, a tasty ploy.  I think I could use that against newbies pretty darn easily, if I was Scum, and there was an Imp and I was Imp's likely scumbuddy.  If Imp dies before me through lynch or night kill - and if Imp is Town, then there goes the case against me, cause Town doesn't have a Scum buddy, so Imp doesn't have a Scumbuddy, so I'm not Scum, right? - NO.  In fact, I suggest that if you see I am proved to be Town, my living previous likely Scum buddy(ies) are solidly worth some extra observation, may you PLEASE not fall for that fallacy so I do not gnash my teeth excessively in deadchat.

Spoiler: Seems the right thing to do to needle Rolepgeek back a little, maybe? (click to show/hide)

Imp, you still keep taking stuff out of context.

Sigh.  Decided a little more stuff to take out of context, alas.

You keep telling us stuff like this -

Alright. I dislike having to do this again, but I can't do anything today, really, because I've been dealing with a lot of drama. Tomorrow I hope to be able to do a nice large post with the various things I want to say on it.

And internet will shut off soon, so I need to cut this post short, though there may be a follow up.

Alright, well, as a stopgap measure I'm gonna try to answer questions at the least on my IPad.

Gah. Sorry. I have like two minutes to do this. I got a girlfriend. >.> I really wish I could respond, but when I say two minutes, I mean my internet will shut down in two minutes, and I'd rather not give hasty answers, and I'd rather not not post. I'll vote for an extend, too.

Now, this is your weekend too.  You've essentially told us you have drama issues, time issues, distraction in the form of new girlfriend issues - heck, you probably have other issues you're not bothering to mention, I know I do.  Relaxing and doing what you please is a big part of handling stress.

I figured, as I'm answering everyone else, lets make sure I didn't miss anything from you, so I checked your recent posts to be sure.

Dang!  32 posts elsewhere since you last posted here.  One of them impressive things has over 1000 words in it.  Are you surely sure you mean what you say when you say stuff like "Tomorrow I hope to be able to do a nice large post with the various things I want to say on it."

Spoiler: Deathsword, last but probably not least... (click to show/hide)

Imp: What are you suspicions, besides rolepgeek (who, if I got it right, you are voting)?

Giggle giggle, again.

That was a hard one for a few days.  If those two are sure Scum (I mean Kleril and Superblackcat, in that order of suspicion just in case that wasn't blindingly clear already *blink blink*) then I didn't have any, just some people and it was more than starting to feel like that for me.

I'm a bit better now.  I'm kinda speculative about everyone again now, which is goodie.  Persus with his casual "I viewed Luke as town even before I got my role PM."  Mmm.  Yeah.  Kinda reminds me that Luke had been my -third- scummiest player.  Such a casual and easy to suconsciously accept thing to drop into the water.

For now, the holder of Luke's role seems to still have a lot of my suspicions.

Oh hey!  Deathsword, any chance you might be able to be a bit more active here too, when its not Tuesday/Thursday and such?

I know you already give us a lot, and I like it.  I just want more.  Show us more

I probably missed a few things.  I'll catch them next time.  Good luck all, lets get these Scum gone!