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[makeinu]

Makeinu: You said you think you have a read on forum members. Care to share them? Also, I would really appreciate that you make an effort to scumhunt. Otherwise you make us think you're scummy. Defending yourself is fine. not scumhunting isn't.

I would care to share, but I'm still uncertain how I would put those reads into coherent sentences. They're more... feelings than anything else yet.

As to the scum-hunting, forgive me if it seems I'm not. I'm unused to this style of Q&A scum-hunting, with random, or seemingly so, "What if..." questions posed and answered. Perhaps I was rash in jumping into this game immediately, but it looked interesting. I have itches that make me lean toward a couple as scum, but I haven't clarified for myself yet how much of that is an emotional lizard-brain response, and how much is logic.

[Tiruin]

Caz, Max, and Tiruin:

I haven't even answered anything of Persus or whatever he has given?!

For the record, I don't have a problem with Tiuin asking me a question. It seemed more like a question of clarification than an answer.

And this is what I was saying when being accused of 'diverting the idea to Persus' (ok..not directly but that was in thought..). If he had a problem with me, then why didn't he attack me firsthand?

[Persus13]

As to the scum-hunting, forgive me if it seems I'm not. I'm unused to this style of Q&A scum-hunting, with random, or seemingly so, "What if..." questions posed and answered. Perhaps I was rash in jumping into this game immediately, but it looked interesting. I have itches that make me lean toward a couple as scum, but I haven't clarified for myself yet how much of that is an emotional lizard-brain response, and how much is logic.

Questions get information, information gives more chance of a scumtell (or lack of one) showing up, which helps find scum. I don't really understand the What if questions much myself, but they seem to help other people. What are your thoughts on the Max, Caz, Tiruin, and me debate?

[makeinu]

I'll.... get back to you on that. I need to reread some of it with fresh(er) eyes than read it first.

[Imp]

As to the scum-hunting, forgive me if it seems I'm not. I'm unused to this style of Q&A scum-hunting, with random, or seemingly so, "What if..." questions posed and answered. Perhaps I was rash in jumping into this game immediately, but it looked interesting. I have itches that make me lean toward a couple as scum, but I haven't clarified for myself yet how much of that is an emotional lizard-brain response, and how much is logic.

makeinu, have you read any of the previous Mafia games in this forum?

[makeinu]

I've skimmed over a few mafia threads here so far ... I have enjoyed reading some of the more notable games here. Given me some ideas to take away for my own games.

[Imp]

I've skimmed over a few mafia threads here so far ... I have enjoyed reading some of the more notable games here. Given me some ideas to take away for my own games.

What you 'skimmed over' and when you 'enjoyed reading some of the more notable games here', did you notice then the differences in how Mafia is played here from what you were used to before?

What did you think about the differences you noticed then, and how different does this game feel to you than the games you read?

[Caz]

*chuckles*  My focus IRL especially is in noticing others' intentions.  I've been the victim of quite a few types of abuse in my life, starting from earliest childhood.  It's not necessarily IRL pwnage - it's IRL evaluation of threat and determination of intention, as well as 'handling pressure' that I most see connection to through Mafia.  It's IRL 'I am -not- a victim, and I will never again be victimized if that is possible to prevent.'
I try to live by what one military serviceman and martial artist wrote and called 'The Warrior Creed':

Wherever I go,
 everyone is a little bit safer because I am there.

Wherever I am,
 anyone in need has a friend.

Whenever I return home,
 everyone is happy I am there.

Woah... Good plan. I want to be you when I grow up.

Given your preference of enjoying the puzzle, do you see 'set ups' you can use for puzzle pieces even from the very start of play, or is D1 really and truly wasted time to you?

I'm really bad at puzzles. The biggest benefit to Day 1 I can see is that no one has really found their feet yet, and looking back to the Day 1 interactions can be really useful once we get some hard evidence later in the day, particularly how people are interacting with those who are later to be found either scum or town. Just now, a lot of it seems irrelevant.

(I'm not interested in lynching Scummy players, though I do believe we should lynch the Scummiest players as a rule - I want to lynch the real Scum and real hostiles, not players whose playstyles are Scummy.  That can be a fine line, so that's worth a lot of attention.)

How do you decide between a scummy player that is town and a scummy player that is real scum? Do they have different tells to you?

So your argument against makeinu is because of RL issues and because of Jim and Max attacking him. I see.

Put words into my mouth more, bro. My reasoning for my vote against makeinu is that his excuses are flimsy. You think scum isn't up to exaggerating irl issues to keep suspicion off them? I see people excusing their lack of coherent posts by lack of time, tiredness, whatever. Not all of them flip town. To be honest, making an excuse is almost admitting guilt. If you don't agree to that, I'll reference makeinu's frequent assurances to us that he is town. (After all, how else would we know?)

Regardless, as before, you're free to be suspicious based on your read of my actions, but your suspicion is misplaced. Barring my death and a role/alignment flip, however, I can't prove that you're wrong.

I know my wincon and alignment. Having already been pinged as suspicious for previously throwing out assertions to them, I refuse to further that by repeating them in every post to defend myself. At the risk of being pinged for such again, however, I will do so here. My wincon requires eliminating threats to the town.

I'm not a dopp

I'm not going to role claim, not on day one, but I am town.

[Persus13]

So your argument against makeinu is because of RL issues and because of Jim and Max attacking him. I see.

Put words into my mouth more, bro. My reasoning for my vote against makeinu is that his excuses are flimsy. You think scum isn't up to exaggerating irl issues to keep suspicion off them? I see people excusing their lack of coherent posts by lack of time, tiredness, whatever. Not all of them flip town. To be honest, making an excuse is almost admitting guilt. If you don't agree to that, I'll reference makeinu's frequent assurances to us that he is town. (After all, how else would we know?)

Regardless, as before, you're free to be suspicious based on your read of my actions, but your suspicion is misplaced. Barring my death and a role/alignment flip, however, I can't prove that you're wrong.

I know my wincon and alignment. Having already been pinged as suspicious for previously throwing out assertions to them, I refuse to further that by repeating them in every post to defend myself. At the risk of being pinged for such again, however, I will do so here. My wincon requires eliminating threats to the town.

I'm not a dopp

I'm not going to role claim, not on day one, but I am town.

Yeah I think Makeinu is scummy because of his constant town-claims, but I think that lying about RL in Mafia is poor form for scum and so tend to believe it when mentioned by people as an excuse. My opinion differs in that I tend to give some leeway to people who seem like they're scum D1 because its easy to mess up, especially if your not scum and not checking your posts for errors.

[Imp]

How do you decide between a scummy player that is town and a scummy player that is real scum? Do they have different tells to you?

I am still working on that one, but I've had some early possible successes (one can also be right because of luck, and can misattribute 'a reason' for something going right when that 'reason' had absolutely no connection - that's how one becomes superstitious about something).

In my first game, BM42, I managed with a huge amount of work and interaction to figure out that Superblackcat, though super Scummy, was almost certainly Town (later proven that he was Town).  How I did so wasn't 'tells' per say, it wasn't 'oh, he said this, this, and that - thus he is Town not Scum'.

More what I did was pretend to be him.  I made the assumption that -everything- he said was true, then I pretended that I made every single one of his posts, and tried to figure out why I made them.  Why I reacted to what I reacted to, why I said what I said, what I meant when I said what I said, why I didn't react to what I didn't show a reaction to.

I made a 'model' of that player in my head, reconstructed from his actions in game, then I questioned 'it' and as Superblackcat continued to post, I compared it against his new posts.  Making it wasn't easy - it was possible to do because Superblackcat had posted rather frequently and had interacted with me extensively while I was paying a lot of attention to him.  That model let me see Cat as yes, super Scummy, but as Town-Scummy not Scum-Scummy - and suggested several differences in how he would act if he really were Scum and helped me believe that he probably could not behave as he was if he actually was Scum - that had to do with how he handled pressure and what he responded to and didn't react to.

But nothing so simple I could boil down into a list of 'tells', no.  I believe any such list would have to be made anew for each player, and would have to change as that player changed.

[TheDarkStar]

New People, let's say you are scum and your scum buddy is being scummy. And not just a little scummy, like, really, really scummy. What do you do?

Only one thing to do: Use him to gain trust by accusing him and calling for him to be lynched. If he is lynched, I am shown to be telling the truth and I gain trust. If no one believes me and I am lynched (or nightkilled), then people suspect him less.

[TheDarkStar]

TheDarkStar:  You've made 6 posts so far.  You've made a statement about makeinu being Scummy, applogized for an editing error, answered a question, told makeinu to act less Scummy in future, told makeinu you didn't trust him, he was appologizing a lot, and that if he was being honest you were sorry, and told us you were going off the forum for the day.

Do your posts and their content so far reflect how you intend to play for the rest of the game?  If so, what strategy are you using, to achieve what goals?  If not, what are you waiting for before you really start to play?

First, I am now answering the questions I missed. Second, I most likely will continue playing this way (ignoring the things from being new). I aim to figure out who the scum are and get them dead. I'll probably be looking at posts and checking for contradictions.

[RangerCado]

Giving one post everywhere as I am feeling really sick so nothing more from me until tomorrow morning at the earliest. Sorry guys.

[TheDarkStar]

Looking through the day's posts, Makeinu is trying too hard to be town. He has not made a real contribution so far, even though he claims he eventually will. He says he is town and definately not a doppelganger all the time (summed up by Persus), but as a townie he should assume that he does not need to say this, since he would have nothing to hide. I'm voting for him for trying too hard to fit in.

[Persus13]

Looking through the day's posts, Makeinu is trying too hard to be town. He has not made a real contribution so far, even though he claims he eventually will. He says he is town and definately not a doppelganger all the time (summed up by Persus), but as a townie he should assume that he does not need to say this, since he would have nothing to hide. I'm voting for him for trying too hard to fit in.

Summed up by Caz you mean. I'm going to go back through Makeinu's posts again if I have time to see what you guys see.