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Author Topic: Paranormal 23 - Game Over!  (Read 145818 times)

Jim Groovester

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Re: Paranormal 23 - Day 1 - Trouble at Sea
« Reply #90 on: December 03, 2013, 01:56:34 am »

Jim:  Arrr.  Be ye a swarthy enough pirate to see us out of this mess?

Aye. Be ye a seaworthy enough sailor to smoothly sail to safety?

I see I'm not the only one who got a 'bad enough dude' vibe from the day opening post.

Jim Groovester: Who would you least like to have allied with you as the Dopplegangers?

I dunno. Someone bad.

Actually, I wouldn't want Tiruin or Imp as dopp partners because they post a lot and I don't really want to spend all the time it would take to read everything they would have to say in dopp chat.

Jimatomic Groovetown: Hey there! So tell me, what sort of roles do you think could have the worst effect balance wise on the game?

Well, dopp vig is a pretty broken role combination.

I can't think of any other role and alignment combination that strikes me as imba fucking bullshit. Usually the way games goes is the town gets good role results and win or the dopps do a good job of eliminating town roles and win.

Jim Groovester:  If you were to pick one of these terms to most accurately describe your Mafia playstyle these days, which one would you select?  The choices are: passive, reactive, watchful, observant, hesitant, regretful, intense, determined, vengeful, avoidant, successful, focused, creative, pinpoint, maverick.  If you were to pick two that together most accurately describe your Mafia playstyle, which two do you pick?

I would pick all of them.

I may not show it but I'm a hurricane of emotions!

If I could pick two, I would pick all of them twice, since that even more accurately expresses the turbulence of my emotional state.

This isn't the first qualitative, self-report RV question I've seen you ask and I still don't see or understand the relevance.

rediculous

Oh my gosh, spell it correctly. It's ridiculous, not rediculous.

You asked a question of Sinlessmoon I cared to answer for myself.

But why?

You can be chatty and say whatever you want and answer other people's questions but your interjections are being observed and noted and you are being judged for them.

Clarify, please: what's the threshold for "logged off due to inactivity" here? Because I see this:

It's fifteen minutes, but you shouldn't take somebody being online as a sign that they're in front of their computer and capable of answering questions in a game of mafia.

I'm pretty much always logged in, but I have this thing called school and life n' shit that takes me away from the game. I don't bother to log off when I do that.

New People, let's say you are scum and your scum buddy is being scummy. And not just a little scummy, like, really, really scummy. What do you do?
Logged
I understood nothing, contributed nothing, but still got to win, so good game everybody else.

makeinu

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Re: Paranormal 23 - Day 1 - Trouble at Sea
« Reply #91 on: December 03, 2013, 01:59:43 am »

New People, let's say you are scum and your scum buddy is being scummy. And not just a little scummy, like, really, really scummy. What do you do?

Been there, done that. Throw them under the bus.
Logged
In 2142, We made the Regenabots. They made us immortal. Now the year is 2165. Too many humans, and not nearly enough to go around. What have we done? Join this dark world today.

The Starcrash. A global disaster that destroyed our homeworld. The AI Council tries to hold us together. But some of us won't be kept in line. We are the Free Captains. We are Star Pirates.

Sinlessmoon

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Re: Paranormal 23 - Day 1 - Trouble at Sea
« Reply #92 on: December 03, 2013, 02:03:09 am »

New People, let's say you are scum and your scum buddy is being scummy. And not just a little scummy, like, really, really scummy. What do you do?

Try to distance myself as far away from that person as possible.

makeinu: You haven't answered my question.

makeinu: Why are you jumping to conclusions about all these different people? Just because I haven't responded and am active on my profile; doesn't mean that I am necessarily active on the forums, I could just be tabbed out of my browser or doing something else.

makeinu

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Re: Paranormal 23 - Day 1 - Trouble at Sea
« Reply #93 on: December 03, 2013, 02:44:40 am »

Unvote

makeinu: You haven't answered my question.

makeinu: Why are you jumping to conclusions about all these different people?

Apologies. I was in the process of composing a longer reply to a previous post when real life intruded. Funny how that works. (<_<) ... (>_>)

 Also, two is "all these different" people?  ;)

You asked a question of Sinlessmoon I cared to answer for myself.

But why?

You can be chatty and say whatever you want and answer other people's questions but your interjections are being observed and noted and you are being judged for them.

And do you think I'm not aware of that?

The reverse is also true. How people react, or don't, as the case may be, tells me something. Same with how they react to random accusations. It's the way I learn. I'm not a passive observer. Lurklearning doesn't work for me; I get terrible reads off people that way.

Don't forget, please, I'm not new to mafia, but I am new to bay12 mafia. I don't know any of you from Adam. I have to establish a baseline to work from. To do that, I poke the ant pile. Now I know what you do when poked unprovoked. Maybe next I'll learn what you do when poked with evidence to back it up.

Quote
Clarify, please: what's the threshold for "logged off due to inactivity" here?

It's fifteen minutes,

Thank you. On the forum I've played these on before, it's ten minutes, and that's a hard offline. People lose forum posts. It's really annoying.

Quote
but you shouldn't take somebody being online as a sign that they're in front of their computer and capable of answering questions in a game of mafia.

Actually, but I do. Referring again to where I've played before, being "online" according to the system and not at least posting a "boo" post leads to suspicion that tends to prove accurate, long run. Especially true mid- to late-game, but relevant even on firstday.

Here is different. Okay. Learned, moving on.
Logged
In 2142, We made the Regenabots. They made us immortal. Now the year is 2165. Too many humans, and not nearly enough to go around. What have we done? Join this dark world today.

The Starcrash. A global disaster that destroyed our homeworld. The AI Council tries to hold us together. But some of us won't be kept in line. We are the Free Captains. We are Star Pirates.

Tiruin

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Re: Paranormal 23 - Day 1 - Trouble at Sea
« Reply #94 on: December 03, 2013, 02:52:09 am »

Ranger: Nice to see ya again :D

Tiruin:
What Doppleganger role would you prefer the most?
Hmm.
*checks roles*
...
MAD SCIENTIST >:D
> Preferably with an assassin bot. Because of all the fun it would entail.

Why're ya askin' me such a subjeeeective question?

makeinu: Heyo! :)
Pretty new here, are you?
What's the difference between this type of Mafia than the others you've played?
Quote
Every game is unique. The only goals that matter are the ones that are set and relevant to that game.

In this game, my goals are the town's goals.
...This doesn't tell much. Everyone wishes to say that 'my goal is Town goal.'
But the sentence before it also relates to any wincon you have.

Query: How do you rate scummy players? How do you rate a player for a lynch-vote?
New People, let's say you are scum and your scum buddy is being scummy. And not just a little scummy, like, really, really scummy. What do you do?

Been there, done that. Throw them under the bus.
How so? Wouldn't that also implicate you?

...Also EBWOP = Edit By Way Of Post

Imp
Tiruin:  Pretend you have a day kill, and you need to use it right now (immediately after you read this question) or it will be lost.  Who do you pick to kill and why did you pick that person, or do you pick to lose your kill and why?
I will pick Mephansteras for making such a mean ability which is restricted by time. That, and such an ability w-"This message will self-destruct in 5 seconds."
On the other hand, I would pick Imp, as she somehow knows the specifics of my actions! Or..has some kind of ability to give the viewer a kill, whereupon an answer would go I daykill Imp! (Nope)
...I won't use my kill [ie Lose my kill and cry as I see it fade away but no regrets]. 'Tis too random. Sure, I may hit scum (alien/dopp) but bleh. I don't like using my day kills like such without analysis on people. I hate everyone equally.

Why the specific situation?


Jim
New People, let's say you are scum and your scum buddy is being scummy. And not just a little scummy, like, really, really scummy. What do you do?
I ATTACK HIM WITH FULL VOLITION.
Because my buddy is being selfish and scummy. This'll teach him rihte. :I
..And that is generally what I'd do, however the proceeds will go with scrutiny and careful prodding, not just a full out assault.
Yes I'm new!


PFP - busy working on literature project and was caught at a rather inappropriate time :(

PPE: makeinu: Why'd you unvote?
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Jim Groovester

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Re: Paranormal 23 - Day 1 - Trouble at Sea
« Reply #95 on: December 03, 2013, 02:57:18 am »

And do you think I'm not aware of that?

The reverse is also true. How people react, or don't, as the case may be, tells me something. Same with how they react to random accusations. It's the way I learn. I'm not a passive observer. Lurklearning doesn't work for me; I get terrible reads off people that way.

Don't forget, please, I'm not new to mafia, but I am new to bay12 mafia. I don't know any of you from Adam. I have to establish a baseline to work from. To do that, I poke the ant pile. Now I know what you do when poked unprovoked. Maybe next I'll learn what you do when poked with evidence to back it up.

Okay.

So why did you answer the question directed towards Sinlessmoon?
Logged
I understood nothing, contributed nothing, but still got to win, so good game everybody else.

makeinu

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Re: Paranormal 23 - Day 1 - Trouble at Sea
« Reply #96 on: December 03, 2013, 03:14:27 am »

MAD SCIENTIST >:D
> Preferably with an assassin bot. Because of all the fun it would entail.

Awww, man! Now I want that role! :))


Quote
makeinu: Heyo! :)
Pretty new here, are you?

Ya think? :P

Quote
What's the difference between this type of Mafia than the others you've played?

Not type. People. Though...

Certain restrictions are different. No quoting mod (GM) PMs. No outside communication channels.

I'm very used to much of the dealings happening behind the scenes, and lots of faked, some good, many bad, role statements.

Quote
Quote
Every game is unique. The only goals that matter are the ones that are set and relevant to that game.

In this game, my goals are the town's goals.
...This doesn't tell much. Everyone wishes to say that 'my goal is Town goal.'
But the sentence before it also relates to any wincon you have.

I thought that was clear. Wincon/goals. I'm not going to role claim, not on day one, but I am town. *shrugs*

Quote
Query: How do you rate scummy players? How do you rate a player for a lynch-vote?

Subjectively. Depends on the evidence and my gut read.

Quote
New People, let's say you are scum and your scum buddy is being scummy. And not just a little scummy, like, really, really scummy. What do you do?

Been there, done that. Throw them under the bus.
How so? Wouldn't that also implicate you?

Not always, depending on how it's done.

The worst case of that happening to me, I was the Godfather, and one of our team went nuts in open communication, outside the thread. Another stepped in, stupidly, and tried to stop him. At that point, it was necessary to amputate. It's not hard to bus a team mate that's handing the suspicion out like Hallowe'en candy.

Remind me, if you're interested, and I'll share my guide on how to be a master scum. I can be very good at it, when I'm paying attention.

Quote
...Also EBWOP = Edit By Way Of Post

That's what the Google said too. Understand in principle, never seen.


Quote
PPE: makeinu: Why'd you unvote?

Because I got what I wanted: a read.

im Groovester: Because I wanted to.
Logged
In 2142, We made the Regenabots. They made us immortal. Now the year is 2165. Too many humans, and not nearly enough to go around. What have we done? Join this dark world today.

The Starcrash. A global disaster that destroyed our homeworld. The AI Council tries to hold us together. But some of us won't be kept in line. We are the Free Captains. We are Star Pirates.

makeinu

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Re: Paranormal 23 - Day 1 - Trouble at Sea
« Reply #97 on: December 03, 2013, 03:17:54 am »

Dammit! Lost a letter in my copy/pasta...

RangerCado, when you see this, having now answered more questions than anyone else, I'd be grateful for an Unvote.
Logged
In 2142, We made the Regenabots. They made us immortal. Now the year is 2165. Too many humans, and not nearly enough to go around. What have we done? Join this dark world today.

The Starcrash. A global disaster that destroyed our homeworld. The AI Council tries to hold us together. But some of us won't be kept in line. We are the Free Captains. We are Star Pirates.

Tiruin

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Re: Paranormal 23 - Day 1 - Trouble at Sea
« Reply #98 on: December 03, 2013, 03:26:30 am »

O_o

...So you vote for reads..? As in, you're already confirming people out or is there something I'm missing?

Dammit! Lost a letter in my copy/pasta...

RangerCado, when you see this, having now answered more questions than anyone else, I'd be grateful for an Unvote.
^ Are you asking Ranger to unvote you? Why/not?
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makeinu

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Re: Paranormal 23 - Day 1 - Trouble at Sea
« Reply #99 on: December 03, 2013, 03:39:33 am »

O_o

...So you vote for reads..? As in, you're already confirming people out or is there something I'm missing?

I'm not confirming anyone anything. I wanted to see how people would react if I pointed out what I did, which was that two players had questions asked of them and had not answered despite showing as online. And I learned a great deal doing that, so I have no regrets.

Quote
Are you asking Ranger to unvote you? Why/not?

Yes, and why not ask? Either he has reason to suspect me, in which case, fine, leave the vote and make the case, or he doesn't, and should pull the vote. He implies that the vote was because I dodged a question. But I didn't dodge a question, I answered an accusation. To me, then, his vote has no more validity than mine did.

Clarification: Jim, I chose to answer the question because, though it was addressed to Sinlessmoon by name, it was also more generally addressed to new players here, of which I am one.
Logged
In 2142, We made the Regenabots. They made us immortal. Now the year is 2165. Too many humans, and not nearly enough to go around. What have we done? Join this dark world today.

The Starcrash. A global disaster that destroyed our homeworld. The AI Council tries to hold us together. But some of us won't be kept in line. We are the Free Captains. We are Star Pirates.

makeinu

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Re: Paranormal 23 - Day 1 - Trouble at Sea
« Reply #100 on: December 03, 2013, 04:23:11 am »

Hmmm, something just occurred to me. I'm playing more along the lines of the schedule I'm used to, 48 hour "days" 24 hour "nights".

Not used to the idea of "days" lasting a week. That's gonna take a little mental adjustment...
Logged
In 2142, We made the Regenabots. They made us immortal. Now the year is 2165. Too many humans, and not nearly enough to go around. What have we done? Join this dark world today.

The Starcrash. A global disaster that destroyed our homeworld. The AI Council tries to hold us together. But some of us won't be kept in line. We are the Free Captains. We are Star Pirates.

Max White

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Re: Paranormal 23 - Day 1 - Trouble at Sea
« Reply #101 on: December 03, 2013, 04:30:45 am »

I wasn't aware I asked for an opinion on the validity of my vote. I find it curious that I answered your question, but the person it was directed at didn't.

And you've learned I'm chatty, if nothing else.
Well you kinda did. You outright asked if you should vote for somebody, and for a shitty reason too.

Max White:  How closely have you read the OP and the posts made by Meph and players from before the game started?  Do you believe posts made before the game starts may be useful once the game has started?
Not that closely...
Toaster: To fill out my answer now, I think a dopp rogue might have an interesting effect in terms of the numbers game, because it is essentially a +1 to scum numbers, meaning the scum with a chat would need to have one less member to balance it out, or weak roles to justify an extra member. It weakens scum more than anything. The rogue them self wouldn't be of great use to their cause because without knowing who their buddies are the best you could do is play it out like a survive.
A town rogue would just be a vanilla townie who false inspects. I think the term is mason? Intrinsically an anti town role. I think there have been discussions on the pros and cons of this role claiming on day 1, not sure what the standard is though.
So essentially the rogue exists to hurt their own team as part of a balancing act. Their effect on play is more about what other roles exist because of them than their own powers and alignment.

The bloom SS, however, looks very interesting. I'm honestly not exactly sure how that will play out if they do get the chance to do a spore dance, because it is in both town and scums best interest to not see them lynched. I guess it depends on the state of the game at the time?

Yes, though it's not a solo effort, of course.
Would you please explain what you mean by this statement?

I dunno. Someone bad.

Actually, I wouldn't want Tiruin or Imp as dopp partners because they post a lot and I don't really want to spend all the time it would take to read everything they would have to say in dopp chat.
Would you bother to read everything if one of them were your scum partner?

Also now I'm curious, why somebody bad?

RangerCado, when you see this, having now answered more questions than anyone else, I'd be grateful for an Unvote.
What would you say about a player that is showing some very clear signs of caving under a single pressure vote?

makeinu

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Re: Paranormal 23 - Day 1 - Trouble at Sea
« Reply #102 on: December 03, 2013, 05:04:10 am »

I wasn't aware I asked for an opinion on the validity of my vote. I find it curious that I answered your question, but the person it was directed at didn't.

And you've learned I'm chatty, if nothing else.
Well you kinda did. You outright asked if you should vote for somebody, and for a shitty reason too.

Oh, the OMGUS comment...

Bad joke.  ::)
Logged
In 2142, We made the Regenabots. They made us immortal. Now the year is 2165. Too many humans, and not nearly enough to go around. What have we done? Join this dark world today.

The Starcrash. A global disaster that destroyed our homeworld. The AI Council tries to hold us together. But some of us won't be kept in line. We are the Free Captains. We are Star Pirates.

Imp

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Re: Paranormal 23 - Day 1 - Trouble at Sea
« Reply #103 on: December 03, 2013, 05:28:31 am »

Makeinu:

Hmmm, something just occurred to me. I'm playing more along the lines of the schedule I'm used to, 48 hour "days" 24 hour "nights".

Not used to the idea of "days" lasting a week. That's gonna take a little mental adjustment...

Where'd you get a week from?  Right now, unless people extend, this Day ends here:

Day 1 will go until ~5pm Pacific Thursday

More generally in this game, days go for this long:

Days will last for 72 hours or until everyone has voted (if there is a long period of inactivity after everyone votes I'll end the day to keep things moving).


Extensions: ... Extensions will extend the day by 24 hours. No more then two extensions will be granted on any given game day.

I chose to answer the question because, though it was addressed to Sinlessmoon by name, it was also more generally addressed to new players here, of which I am one.

There's been a few other questions that look equally addressable to any new player.  Why'd you only pick the one you did to answer?  What would you have done if no one reacted to your volunteering to have answered 'someone else's question'?

which was that two players had questions asked of them and had not answered despite showing as online.

In your experience, is answering very rapidly a Town-tell (meaning that the person is much more likely to be Town than Scum), and/or is answering 'slowly' a Scum-tell?  What's a reasonable amount of time for a player to answer questions?

How important are asking questions for your Scumhunting style?  I note that as of this point, you've made quite a few posts.  Some of them are pure 'volunteering information', and/or adding additional information to already answered questions without waiting to see if anyone would ask you for further information.

Some of them are answering others' questions.

Then I considered what information you are actively seeking, specifically how you use questions.  You've directly asked 14 questions so far this game, and only two of them appear to have any possible scumhunting value, though those two also appear more focused towards defense and self-explanation than Scumhunting.


So, would you please explain what you are doing, why you are doing it, and why you are using the method you are to achieve your goal?  If your goal or method needs to be secret, it's probably better for you to directly state that instead of providing a lie.  However, you're using a very direct 'attention drawing' series of interactions and voluntary 'talk to me!  focus on me!  interact with me! please stop voting for me!' posts since the game started - so neither your method or goal is secret, right?


Additionally, you've twice talked about the validity of your and others' votes.  I spot where Max introduced the concept 'validity of your vote':

Now, if you don't feel like voting for somebody, why would you ask for our input into the validity of your vote?

But that came following your reaction to his challenge:

Quote
Awfully chatty to answer a question or two, even seek guidance on standard protocol, not so much to do your own scum hunting?

Who says I'm not?  ;D

For example:

Sinlessmoon was online when you asked your question, and yet, didn't answer.

Jim Groovester was also online after game start, and I don't see any posts from him, either.

How's that for a start?

So you look like you're responding to 'pressure' to a great extent - you're almost throwing yourself in the direction that others point.  Max asks if you're going to scumhunt - 'yes' you say!  You already are, 'here, I vote someone for this reason, how's that for my scumhunting?'  That's weird.  Can you explain why you are doing this?

But back to the 'validity of your vote thing -

I wasn't aware I asked for an opinion on the validity of my vote.

and talking about RangerCado's vote on you -
his vote has no more validity than mine did.

This seriously bugs me.

You appear to have placed your vote because of pressure that you were not Scumhunting.  You then react to a challenge about the validity of your vote, but further it a short time later by stating that your vote isn't valid (and the vote on you isn't either unless there's more to back it up than what was said).

So.... First off, what's wrong with your vote to make it invalid?  I understand that, for Town at least, a player's words, questions, thoughts, and especially vote are their most potent weapons (maybe this version has a few roles that are even stronger... but 'Town's greatest weapon' is the vote/lynch, right?)  Second, what makes anyone's vote valid or invalid?  Thirdly, why would you even place a vote that you consider invalid?  Fourthly, why do you appear to be trying to get and hold everyone's attention - to me the sum total of your actions and interactions since start of play have been 'notice me!'.  But you are not 'doing' anything I can understand as Scumhunting with this attention - so what drives you to get our attention like this?
Logged
For every trouble under the sun, there is an answer, or there is none.
If there is one, then seek until you find it.
If there is none, then never ever mind it.

Imp

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Re: Paranormal 23 - Day 1 - Trouble at Sea
« Reply #104 on: December 03, 2013, 05:47:48 am »

Jim Groovester:
This isn't the first qualitative, self-report RV question I've seen you ask and I still don't see or understand the relevance.

Hrm.  So when you asked this question:

New People, let's say you are scum and your scum buddy is being scummy. And not just a little scummy, like, really, really scummy. What do you do?

You didn't name names.  However, if willing to answer, a person must then do a qualitative, self-report assessment of themself, to decide if they are in the category you are questioning or not.

But you have claimed that you thought general questions were useless, because they lack the focus of their pointed counterparts.  Like a teacher asking a class a question, versus that teacher asking a specific student a question.  And that you don't think someone asking a general question cares about the answers that might be given, so not answering was a win for asker and non-answerer both!

So.  Why did you ask this question of who you asked it of?



Tiruin:
Imp
Tiruin:  Pretend you have a day kill, and you need to use it right now (immediately after you read this question) or it will be lost.  Who do you pick to kill and why did you pick that person, or do you pick to lose your kill and why?
I will pick Mephansteras for making such a mean ability which is restricted by time. That, and such an ability w-"This message will self-destruct in 5 seconds."
On the other hand, I would pick Imp, as she somehow knows the specifics of my actions! Or..has some kind of ability to give the viewer a kill, whereupon an answer would go I daykill Imp! (Nope)
...I won't use my kill [ie Lose my kill and cry as I see it fade away but no regrets]. 'Tis too random. Sure, I may hit scum (alien/dopp) but bleh. I don't like using my day kills like such without analysis on people. I hate everyone equally.

Why the specific situation?

Two reasons.  Refer back to my post you quote, the order of questions, two questions previous to yours.  Refer to the OP, the order of players listed.  I wanted to interact with everyone.  Those who had already posted in play, I considered their words and spoke to them from interaction, not true RVS.  THose of you who had not yet posted in play were fully RVSed, based on 'have I interacted with you in Mafia before' and 'if not, do I think you've ever played Mafia on B12 board before'.

The people I RVS'd I pulled from OP order, and Persus's question through stream of consciousness created Caz's question, which similarly created your question.

However, I'm just starting to really 'see' how random you may be (I heard your claims of this before, I just didn't really see it).  Interesting.
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For every trouble under the sun, there is an answer, or there is none.
If there is one, then seek until you find it.
If there is none, then never ever mind it.
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