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[TheDarkStar]

makeinu has shown that he is not just making excuses, so, while I still suspect him, Unvote for now. We need someone to check him eventually (and hopefully soon) to see what he is. I'd consider is reason to lynch if he came up as a townie based on the fact that, while he claims town, he carefully does not claim townie.

Well, I suspect him a lot more now with his fifth town claim. He's close enough to me voting for him again that I'll probably do it next time he is suspicious.

[Toaster]

Words started running together partway though writing this, so it's not as detailed or as insightful as I'd like it to be.  I will need to go back through.

Ranger:

Toaster:

Since you're questioning everyone, how will you cope with the loss of focus your questions have?

Loss of focus? How so? If your asking why i'm not pursuing everyone after asking everyone a question, its because it would be too much pressure on me to keep 20 different lines of thought in my head. I ask them as an opener to try and find something to go off early. Right now, i've found makeinu to be suspicious and am pursuing it, hence possible loss of focus. Also, what would be your criteria for tracking someone?

I dislike the opener of asking everyone a question.  If you ask everyone, there's no shock of "Oh crap attention is on me" because it's on everyone.  You're not putting any pressure, and are not likely to get anything useful out of it.

Do you mean track in general or Advanced Tracking Devices?  If you mean a reporter-style track, I'd mainly track people I thought were scummy.  If they went to someone who turned up dead in the morning, so much the better.  For ATD, since they're placed in the day (and you have two D1) I'd pick people I had trouble reading.  That way I would have some basis on whether their eventual claims matched to reality (and if they visited people who turned up dead.)



Makeinu:

Correction: it's not helping anyone else get anywhere. It gives me a baseline to work from.

For instance. Assume, for the moment, I survive until tomorrow. Further assume that overnight, I come up with strong evidence of another player's scum role. Having now made baseless accusations, I can compare and contrast the reaction to that against a factual accusation.

The issue with this is you imply you need role results to really nail someone down as scum.  What if you're actually vanilla or some role that isn't investigative?  You need to have a solid day game to use as your primary weapon.

So, it turns out I may have been a little manic yesterday, due to an unforeseen drug interaction. And by may have, I mean was completely. And by a little, I mean a lot.

I don't know the circumstances of what happened, but I fully recommend that you do not play under the influence.

It's just a bad idea.

Jim is correct.


Persus:

Persus13:  Pretend you are Town and have a day inspect, and you need to use it right now (immediately after you read this question) or it will be lost.  Who do you pick to inspect and why did you pick that person, or do you pick to lose your inspect and why?

I'd inspect makeinu. I'm not sure what he is and I'd like to know. What type of inspect?

Why seek clarification after you answer the question?


Imp:

Toaster:

Why did you cast a wide net and question everyone instead of focusing your attention?

I think in wholes.  How people respond to me and interact with each other will focus my attention for me.  When people seem Scummy they sure do get my attention.  When not, I think I should talk to everyone as best as I can.  There's only 11 of us.  I've learned how to count to 10 other people in a Mafia game; ten isn't actually 'a lot' to me anymore.

I'm also worried that if I just look at X people, then I'm going to pick the Scummiest of that subset as the highest probability of their being Scum.  That happened to me in the now finished BM42.  I looked for two Scum, picked out two super Scummy players D1 and believed I'd solved the whole thing.  Town did win in the end, but neither of my two 'obv-Scum' picks were Scum.  So I'm watching everyone as best I can.

Fair enough.  As I said to Ranger, that style irks me- but if it works for you, so be it.

Would you do the same thing if this was a nineteen player game?

I'm going to avast this ship until we sail over some land lubbers.

The way you use avast there - what does avast mean to you?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Entirely in jest, if that doesn't make it obvious.

Toaster:  You've asked two players questions about their questioning of all other players, and each of your questions has included a negatively-directed statement about those players lack focus because of questioning everyone.

Ranger:
Since you're questioning everyone, how will you cope with the loss of focus your questions have?

Imp:
Why did you cast a wide net and question everyone instead of focusing your attention?

Please explain why you percieve questioning everyone as preventing focused attention.

I think I adequately explained this in my response to Ranger.  I did it to both of you because it's something I see many players doing these days, and I'm trying to dissuade it.

For the record, I am 100% for claiming Kook status first post, and extend this to regular miller in any game I play.

Why?  Furthermore, one possible reaction I imagine is voting you from suspicion that you are not a miller, but a Scum claiming to be a miller.  How would you handle that so that your claim and the reactions it provoked on D1 served Town? 

Short answer is I found scum the first time I tried this.

To elaborate, claiming it the very first post of your game- and making it your meta- does several things.  If it's a true claim, then it's right out there in the open for everyone to know.  It tells people that alignment inspecting you will return a scum result, so go inspect elsewhere.  The big reason is in opposition, though.  If you are one- or are scum- claiming Kook after someone claims a guilty inspection on you is very unlikely to convince people not to lynch you.  The goal is to turn it into a null tell; something that is acknowledged and then moved on from.  The first time I did it, one of the dopps made a huge issue out of it and tried to get me lynched over it.  I eventually figured this out, but the dopp team had a vig and we were pretty much screwed anyway.


Caz:  Why did you vote three times for two different people in this post?  This isn't a BYOR so I know there's no role shenanigans going on here.

Sinlessmoon, Toaster: Are you still with us?

Why'd you vote him over me?

[Tiruin]

makeinu has shown that he is not just making excuses, so, while I still suspect him, Unvote for now. We need someone to check him eventually (and hopefully soon) to see what he is. I'd consider is reason to lynch if he came up as a townie based on the fact that, while he claims town, he carefully does not claim townie.

...Dude, we need quotes to follow you fluidly. I don't see any basis on how you arrived to 'makeinu isn't just making excuses' without your viewpoint--meaning put down those Quotes.

Also are you giving out orders in public? Why're you doing that--and why the follow-up reasoning?

makeinu has shown that he is not just making excuses, so, while I still suspect him, Unvote for now. We need someone to check him eventually (and hopefully soon) to see what he is. I'd consider is reason to lynch if he came up as a townie based on the fact that, while he claims town, he carefully does not claim townie.

Well, I suspect him a lot more now with his fifth town claim. He's close enough to me voting for him again that I'll probably do it next time he is suspicious.

...What caused the fluctuating suspicion?

And..really. Just plain foul? You take Max' word when I haven't even answered anything of Persus or whatever he has given?!

*scratches brain* Didn't you answer a post directed from Persus to Max before Max himself had a chance to answer? Or is Max making up shit?

That's what you're accusing me of! D:

You were very quick to jump in on a question directed at me.

True, jumping in the middle of questions is a foul. The people call foul! Death to Tiruin!

I mean, look at what you said to me. If this vote isn't an appearance of your suspicion, then the only logical note is you're emphasizing for humor. Which, while comedic, is confusing.
Also that was a question on how you saw Max' words without looking into their context. It seems you're already concluding without any visible basis but 'I agree with Max. Tiruin is scummy for doing x'.
How is my action there, scummy?

PPE: Toaster:
I got to get that keyboard someday.
PFP can't post until 3 more horus or so

[TheDarkStar]

...What caused the fluctuating suspicion?

He made a new post timed so that I posted and then read his post. He is not out of suspicion and was not ever out of it.

[makeinu]

Sadly, I have to admit I'm better at playing scum than town...

I probably shouldn't admit that...

Are you townclaiming again? I swear I'll put my vote back on you -_- I will, damnit.

Nononononono not at all. Idle conversation only. Honest Injun!

[Caz]

I mean, look at what you said to me. If this vote isn't an appearance of your suspicion, then the only logical note is you're emphasizing for humor. Which, while comedic, is confusing.
Also that was a question on how you saw Max' words without looking into their context. It seems you're already concluding without any visible basis but 'I agree with Max. Tiruin is scummy for doing x'.
How is my action there, scummy?

Oh, right. I have the satisfactory proof, I'm just wondering why you're arguing against it so much. I wasn't going solely on what Max said. To me, interrupting questions is scummy because it could modify the answer of who the question is posed to, without giving them a chance to respond as they would naturally. Basically the interrupter is adding their own information to the process, thus influencing it for their own goals. Why would a town player want to interfere with someone else's scumhunting?

[Caz]

Caz:  Why did you vote three times for two different people in this post?  This isn't a BYOR so I know there's no role shenanigans going on here.

I don't make the posts in one piece, as I'm reading through the thread more pieces get cobbled onto it. I should probably read it all through first, then reply post-by-post, but holy hell am I too lazy for that crap.

Why'd you vote him over me?

He's earlier in the alphabet.



^ duh I posted a post I made after this post earlier because I can't tab. *post now*

[TheDarkStar]

Sadly, I have to admit I'm better at playing scum than town...

I probably shouldn't admit that...

Are you townclaiming again? I swear I'll put my vote back on you -_- I will, [expletive].

Nononononono not at all. Idle conversation only. Honest Injun!

Idle conversation is still made for a reason, and this is definitely a townclaim (yet again). You shouldn't need to spam townclaims on day one, since it's not like anyone is going to be able to prove otherwise if you stay quiet. However, early townclaiming spam like that shows that you are trying to seem as pro-town as possible when playing scum. While some of them have legitimate reason, you just added another one that wouldn't be done if you were truly a townie.

[makeinu]

Idle conversation is still made for a reason

No, sometimes it's just what it says on the box.

[Persus13]

So, it turns out I may have been a little manic yesterday, due to an unforeseen drug interaction. And by may have, I mean was completely. And by a little, I mean a lot.

I don't know the circumstances of what happened, but I fully recommend that you do not play under the influence.

It's just a bad idea.

Jim is correct.

This just made my day and caused me to burst out laughing, thanks.

Persus:

Persus13:  Pretend you are Town and have a day inspect, and you need to use it right now (immediately after you read this question) or it will be lost.  Who do you pick to inspect and why did you pick that person, or do you pick to lose your inspect and why?

I'd inspect makeinu. I'm not sure what he is and I'd like to know. What type of inspect?

Why seek clarification after you answer the question?

Because often times my posts are stream-of-consciousness where I go through a selection and answer questions or comment on stuff that I only occasionally order.

For reference, this was the response Tiruin made to my question:

Quickpost
Persus

And I just got up and the thread is 4 pages longer. Uh-oh.

Max: Why are you tunneling someone D1 for something that isn't really suspicious again?

I'll answer more questions later.

How is he tunneling and how is that something not that really suspicious?

Can someone explain to me why this seems unreasonable?

[makeinu]

I'd consider is reason to lynch if he came up as a townie based on the fact that, while he claims town, he carefully does not claim townie.

Bad grammar aside, which I'll attribute to a typo, this confuses the hell out of me. Explain the bolded part, please.

[Tiruin]

Max: Rerailing it.

Quickpost
Persus

And I just got up and the thread is 4 pages longer. Uh-oh.

Max: Why are you tunneling someone D1 for something that isn't really suspicious again?

I'll answer more questions later.

How is he tunneling and how is that something not that really suspicious?

How does this 'intervene' with what would've been your proposed question? I believe you'd be asking 'How am I tunneling someone', however that would be totally weird given him accusing there as he has a reason in bold.

How can that intervene, or "Defend", any prospect of stopping scumhunting?

[Imp]

Extend.  There's about 13 hours to scheduled end of day.

Sinless hasn't posted in 52 hours.  Perhaps he jumped ship?

Jim and Max both haven't posted in 28 hours.  Maybe they repaired a lifeboat and took off together after Sinless?  (Yeah, finals week, alright.  30 seconds for typing extend going to lower the GPA?)

Meph, prods for those who may need prods, please?

And Rangercado's ill, but didn't ask for an extension.  Why didn't you ask for an extension, Ranger?
Toaster, your 'answer' to my question was amusing and somewhat fits theme.



I am wondering if your 'peg' is too heavy for you or something.  I was going to study your 'avast' answer a bit and try and figure out if it had a coded hidden meaning or something, but there was your spoiler to consider too.

So are you telling me that you and Jim are just joking about the fluff?  What purpose do you believe that serves in this game for you or him?

Or are you telling me in an artistic and amusing fashion that you're just not going to answer my question?

Because you didn't answer it, and you've made two comments to Jim this game that, other than sounding themey, actually are linguistic nonsense.

Jim:  Arrr.  Be ye a swarthy enough pirate to see us out of this mess?

Translated into modern English, you asked him if his skin's dark enough to see us out of this mess.

Aye. Be ye a seaworthy enough sailor to smoothly sail to safety?

He answered you -yes-, but his follow up question uses language in a sensible fashion, without logical contradiction.  Your reply is even more nonsensical than your first Pirate theme question:

I'm going to avast this ship until we sail over some land lubbers.

That seems to be a no in reply to his question - because you just said you were stopping the ship until you sail over some newbies (assuming land-lubbers in context are those without Mafia-legs yet).

What are you doing with this?  Why are you doing it?  Why didn't you answer my question, and why did you throw a 'labeled as a joke' joke at me in place of an answer?

I think I adequately explained this in my response to Ranger.  I did it to both of you because it's something I see many players doing these days, and I'm trying to dissuade it.
I dislike the opener of asking everyone a question.  If you ask everyone, there's no shock of "Oh crap attention is on me" because it's on everyone.  You're not putting any pressure, and are not likely to get anything useful out of it.

How much do you believe of what I have quoted above?  Am I understanding you correctly - you are claiming that you feel that people do not experience pressure from questions so long as other people are also being questioned?  How much of this claim do you believe is your opinion, and how much is absolute fact?

What you're saying about claiming Miller immediately does make sense to me.  Thank you for that clear explanation.

[Mephansteras]

The Whiteboard
makeinu: RangerCado
Max White: Persus13, Tiruin
Sinlessmoon: Caz
Tiruin: Max White


Day ends ~5pm Pacific Today. There is 1 vote to Extend the game to Friday. 4 votes total needed to Extend.

[Tiruin]

Extend
Because unexpected thesis interview >_<