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[makeinu]

There's most likely no SK if Persus died because he's a hider and not because he was killed normally.

Fair enough, that fits with my own reasoning. I'm not going to WIFOM about the possible ways that the mafia kill, or an SK kill, might have been stopped last night. Simplest explanation is that ZU was the mafia kill target and Persus was hiding behind him. I fully expect Persus would definitely have used his power as a sort of role cop. That's about it for how a Hider could be useful.

Also, a little bit meta, but Toaster's title for the day implies to me that both were killed by the same killer. That's how I take "double tap" in this context. I could be wrong, of course.

The vengeful kill didn't help town at all this time either.

No, it did not, that's for sure, though I'll note that IG didn't really add much to the discussion before being killed. Still, that's four deaths in one night. That's not a good start.

It's muscle memory.  Whenever I type [color= I subconsciously start doing 'red', what if DarkStar just FoSs people more than I do?  It's not a lynch-worthy vote for me. ... I don't use that menu, ....

I'll buy muscle memory, but I'm not getting into the meta part of it. I use the pulldown because I'm typing with one hand; anything I can do to eliminate characters to type speeds me up.

You seem rather interested in defending TheDarkStar, ToonyMan. Covering, perhaps?

Finding the truth.

Unvote.

@NativeForeigner:

But let me just say now that I'm only more sure there isn't an SK and I am not certain Pufferfish is necessarily mafia.  Because he isn't here though I can't be wasting my vote unfortunately.  So Unvote for now I'll be back later today.

If you're not sure whether or not Pufferfish is mafia, could you clarify what you think they might be? Maybe tell us what he did at night?

They could be town, mafia, or an SK possibly, and with Persus flipping hider he probably died from hiding behind anti-town, but that could explain another kill as well.  It's very vexing.  This matter would have been settled quickly if Pufferfish was actually here, so hopefully the scientist that is on fire can replace in.

I will not say what he did at night until he says what he did first.

I, too, still want to know more about your findings on Pufferfish's night activities.

It seems you still need a replacement, I'd be willing to fill that spot, though I warn you I've only been in one BM, and was lynched on the first day. I'll leave the decision as to whether that's enough experience up to you guys. I have read all the rules, though, and I've read a good deal of what's happened.

Obviously, it's not my call to make, but I'd like to make a couple of observations, if I may. I looked up the game you played in, and it was a year ago. I'm taking that it left you with a bad taste for mafia games, because I see you're actively engaged in the RTD forum since then, but have never tried mafia again.

I'm not particularly fond of this forum's policy on "new" players, but I do see the value in introducing the game that way, particularly with players that truly never have played mafia before.

Your performance in that game was, in my opinion, fairly typical of a new player facing a game format, and culture, they've not seen before. My main question is whether you feel better prepared to play in this game than you were in that one. There are no beginning players here, though some have less experience than others. If you feel that you're up to the challenge, then I have no problem with you replacing in.

Ultimately, it's Toaster's decision to make.

@Superblackcat:

TDS. Much Defensive.
Wow.
You do a good job, of doing a bad job.

Is that it?  Have other thoughts or concerns?

I see what you did there.

Superblackcat used Meme!

It's not very effective...

Can you make an argument beyond "He's being defensive"?

[+!!scientist!!+]

It seems you still need a replacement, I'd be willing to fill that spot, though I warn you I've only been in one BM, and was lynched on the first day. I'll leave the decision as to whether that's enough experience up to you guys. I have read all the rules, though, and I've read a good deal of what's happened.

Obviously, it's not my call to make, but I'd like to make a couple of observations, if I may. I looked up the game you played in, and it was a year ago. I'm taking that it left you with a bad taste for mafia games, because I see you're actively engaged in the RTD forum since then, but have never tried mafia again.

I'm not particularly fond of this forum's policy on "new" players, but I do see the value in introducing the game that way, particularly with players that truly never have played mafia before.

Your performance in that game was, in my opinion, fairly typical of a new player facing a game format, and culture, they've not seen before. My main question is whether you feel better prepared to play in this game than you were in that one. There are no beginning players here, though some have less experience than others. If you feel that you're up to the challenge, then I have no problem with you replacing in.

Ultimately, it's Toaster's decision to make.

I'm impressed at the amount of research you've done, and I should also add that I quit the RTD circle for the most part quite a while ago, only recently to return. The reason I'm coming back is that recently a brand new spring of free time appeared in my life after I finished the college application process and I reached a new semester where about half my classes are study halls. Also, I have played a few games of mafia in the real world since I played that game, and while I was admittedly playing against people with even less experience than me, I still gained experience and think I can play the game better now. The main thing that scares me about this game is replacing a person who is under heavy suspicion, but I think I can cope.

[TheDarkStar]

It seems you still need a replacement, I'd be willing to fill that spot, though I warn you I've only been in one BM, and was lynched on the first day. I'll leave the decision as to whether that's enough experience up to you guys. I have read all the rules, though, and I've read a good deal of what's happened.

Obviously, it's not my call to make, but I'd like to make a couple of observations, if I may. I looked up the game you played in, and it was a year ago. I'm taking that it left you with a bad taste for mafia games, because I see you're actively engaged in the RTD forum since then, but have never tried mafia again.

I'm not particularly fond of this forum's policy on "new" players, but I do see the value in introducing the game that way, particularly with players that truly never have played mafia before.

Your performance in that game was, in my opinion, fairly typical of a new player facing a game format, and culture, they've not seen before. My main question is whether you feel better prepared to play in this game than you were in that one. There are no beginning players here, though some have less experience than others. If you feel that you're up to the challenge, then I have no problem with you replacing in.

Ultimately, it's Toaster's decision to make.

I'm impressed at the amount of research you've done, and I should also add that I quit the RTD circle for the most part quite a while ago, only recently to return. The reason I'm coming back is that recently a brand new spring of free time appeared in my life after I finished the college application process and I reached a new semester where about half my classes are study halls. Also, I have played a few games of mafia in the real world since I played that game, and while I was admittedly playing against people with even less experience than me, I still gained experience and think I can play the game better now. The main thing that scares me about this game is replacing a person who is under heavy suspicion, but I think I can cope.

Who are you replacing, anyway? The "I need to be replaced" post by whoever is leaving got buried under several pages.

[+!!scientist!!+]

Pufferfish is up for replacement.

[makeinu]

Pufferfish is up for replacement. He's not responded to prods, so far as I know.

It's been mentioned several times, the most recent on the last page before this one.

[Tiruin]

PFP
Unvote
TheDarkStar

I will say that DarkStar should be voting Tiruin if they suspect them more and voting Pufferfish on my claim I can't even clear up doesn't look too good.

I'm guessing that you saw Pufferfish go and visit one of the people who died, so that makes you unsure but suspicious.

So yeah, I'm switching to Tiruin.

Could I ask your reasons in full for voting me here?

Next: Could I ask why you're missing a lot of questions from specifically me? Brain clicks on misogynist, but that's a long-shot to even go towards, but I was cynical when thinking that.

Why do you misinterpret my posts, by the way? Anything wrong there?

Lastly: Could I ask you what you've learned from your experience in Forum Mafia, or the BMs in general?

SBC

@Superblackcat:

Quote from: Superblackcat on Today at 04:45:13 pm
TDS. Much Defensive.
Wow.
You do a good job, of doing a bad job.

Is that it?  Have other thoughts or concerns?

Do I need any other reasons? I think being so defensive is a scum tell. And you can pretty much see it in the past two pages.

Being defensive isn't equally a scumtell, actually. It's in how being defensive is that makes it either scummy or neutral-y (or town-y, depending on how you read it).

I mean, my read on TDS mostly conforms to a more-selfcentric type of attitude than not. I see him lock down and start stabbing back at his attackers. He has been...logical, insofar that he can actually reply despite the inconsistencies--he does ignore a lot however, and seemingly on purpose (but the fact that it happens so much and he never tells what kind of device he uses for viewing the forum...)

However I'd like you to expound on that, kittycat. You aren't like TDS. You can detail your posts well.

What do you see in TDS' posts that make him worthy of your vote? What are your general reads on the populace?

Replacement-guy

O hey its you!

I'm backing this guy here. He's competent enough, and more than worthy on filling a role despite 'lacking' Forum Mafia experience.

Toaster: I recommend this one as a replacement.

makeinu:
I note an interest on others and where they're going, but I see some kinda natural gap in between. Could I ask your reads on the general populace at the moment and why?


Oh, by the way, that unvote?

...Alright, I was contending with myself for looooong a sabbatical evening, and...as far as I see, TDS has been too involved with the self that no logical person could go--he ignores and evades complete lines of text and rather than bother to read or quote consistently (because he can quote, if at least read and snip) he decides to generalize.

I am still unsure if he's just trolling my face out, however if the day end comes and I'm either too busy to have posted muchly, vote will return to the village idiot.

That, and I'm doing a re-read due to RL stuffs heading up on the weekdays. Projects coming in, and that one thesis report. x_x

[makeinu]

I'm impressed at the amount of research you've done, and I should also add that I quit the RTD circle for the most part quite a while ago, only recently to return. The reason I'm coming back is that recently a brand new spring of free time appeared in my life after I finished the college application process and I reached a new semester where about half my classes are study halls. Also, I have played a few games of mafia in the real world since I played that game, and while I was admittedly playing against people with even less experience than me, I still gained experience and think I can play the game better now. The main thing that scares me about this game is replacing a person who is under heavy suspicion, but I think I can cope.

Meh, wasn't really that much research, and I totally skipped over the dates on the RTD stuff, so missed that you haven't really been around there either. Tiruin endorses you, that's good enough for me, like my opinion matters.

Besides, I like the "trial by fire" method of teaching mafia. Ultimately, you learn best from the royal cock-ups, not successes. Early successes make for over-confidence.

[makeinu]

PFP

Hmm, you manage to do better PFP than some do posting from an actual data terminal...

makeinu:
I note an interest on others and where they're going, but I see some kinda natural gap in between. Could I ask your reads on the general populace at the moment and why?

I presume by the bolded part that you're referring to the fact that I'm not stalking the game and posting as much the past few days. Life has taken a turn for the very busy, and I can't always break away to post when I'd like to. Plus, I'm still portable device-less in terms of actually being able to post from such, largely. Long story I won't get into the details of.

Spoiler: As for reads: (click to show/hide)

Elephant Parade: hasn't posted enough, claims to be down sick. Absolute null read. If he's BS'ing about being sick, then he's doing a masterful job of semi-active lurking.

NativeForeigner: also hasn't posted much, but there's been a bit of substance at least. Continues to press on Puff, and a bit on TDS for lacking in reasons for his votes. Still a null read.

Pufferfish: Obviously a power role of some kind, not scum otherwise TM would've outed him. Unless TM is scum-buddy, WIFOM, not going there. What else even to say?

Superblackcat: isn't really scum-hunting, following others' lead, seems locked onto TDS as scum, semi-tunneling. Slight (moderate?) scum read.

TheDarkStar: reactionary as always. Less vote tossy. Defensive reaction to Tir's attacks, expected. Slight scum read.

Tiruin: focused on TDS, side-shots at SBC. Slight town read. (more to follow below, because wtf?)

ToonyMan: Won't share findings until Pufferfish/replacement has a chance to answer. Slight (moderate?) town read.

Urist Imiknorris: focused exclusively on TDS. Two posts today (game day). Active lurking. Slight (moderate?) scum read.

Unvote

Being defensive isn't equally a scumtell, actually. It's in how being defensive is that makes it either scummy or neutral-y (or town-y, depending on how you read it).

I mean, my read on TDS mostly conforms to a more-selfcentric type of attitude than not. I see him lock down and start stabbing back at his attackers. He has been...logical, insofar that he can actually reply despite the inconsistencies--he does ignore a lot however, and seemingly on purpose (but the fact that it happens so much and he never tells what kind of device he uses for viewing the forum...)

Oh, by the way, that unvote?

...Alright, I was contending with myself for looooong a sabbatical evening, and...as far as I see, TDS has been too involved with the self that no logical person could go--he ignores and evades complete lines of text and rather than bother to read or quote consistently (because he can quote, if at least read and snip) he decides to generalize.

I am still unsure if he's just trolling my face out, however if the day end comes and I'm either too busy to have posted muchly, vote will return to the village idiot.

Okay, so, I read those bits, and I'm not sure what exactly your thinking is here. Do you suspect him or not? You've pretty adamantly pressed him up to now, and then you unvote and are suddenly reasonable, benefit of the doubt? Nah. Something's up here.

If it weren't for the fact that I do actually have a bit of a town read on you, and that I always get a scummy vibe off TDS, I'd start being really suspicious here, instead of just a little suspicious. Do I have reason to be, Tiruin?

SBC

@Superblackcat:

Quote from: Superblackcat on Today at 04:45:13 pm
TDS. Much Defensive.
Wow.
You do a good job, of doing a bad job.

Is that it?  Have other thoughts or concerns?

Do I need any other reasons? I think being so defensive is a scum tell. And you can pretty much see it in the past two pages.

However I'd like you to expound on that, kittycat. You aren't like TDS. You can detail your posts well.

What do you see in TDS' posts that make him worthy of your vote?

You still haven't answered my question either.

@Superblackcat:

TDS. Much Defensive.
Wow.
You do a good job, of doing a bad job.

Is that it?  Have other thoughts or concerns?

I see what you did there.

Superblackcat used Meme!

It's not very effective...

Can you make an argument beyond "He's being defensive"?

He's being attacked. Defensive I expect. What about his defensiveness makes him scummy, Superblackcat?

[Tiruin]

PFP

Makeinu: You lost me with that reference to the data terminal.

PFP

Hmm, you manage to do better PFP than some do posting from an actual data terminal...

makeinu:
I note an interest on others and where they're going, but I see some kinda natural gap in between. Could I ask your reads on the general populace at the moment and why?

I presume by the bolded part that you're referring to the fact that I'm not stalking the game and posting as much the past few days. Life has taken a turn for the very busy, and I can't always break away to post when I'd like to. Plus, I'm still portable device-less in terms of actually being able to post from such, largely. Long story I won't get into the details of.

Spoiler: As for reads: (click to show/hide)

Elephant Parade: hasn't posted enough, claims to be down sick. Absolute null read. If he's BS'ing about being sick, then he's doing a masterful job of semi-active lurking.

NativeForeigner: also hasn't posted much, but there's been a bit of substance at least. Continues to press on Puff, and a bit on TDS for lacking in reasons for his votes. Still a null read.

Pufferfish: Obviously a power role of some kind, not scum otherwise TM would've outed him. Unless TM is scum-buddy, WIFOM, not going there. What else even to say?

Superblackcat: isn't really scum-hunting, following others' lead, seems locked onto TDS as scum, semi-tunneling. Slight (moderate?) scum read.

TheDarkStar: reactionary as always. Less vote tossy. Defensive reaction to Tir's attacks, expected. Slight scum read.

Tiruin: focused on TDS, side-shots at SBC. Slight town read. (more to follow below, because wtf?)

ToonyMan: Won't share findings until Pufferfish/replacement has a chance to answer. Slight (moderate?) town read.

Urist Imiknorris: focused exclusively on TDS. Two posts today (game day). Active lurking. Slight (moderate?) scum read.

Unvote

Being defensive isn't equally a scumtell, actually. It's in how being defensive is that makes it either scummy or neutral-y (or town-y, depending on how you read it).

I mean, my read on TDS mostly conforms to a more-selfcentric type of attitude than not. I see him lock down and start stabbing back at his attackers. He has been...logical, insofar that he can actually reply despite the inconsistencies--he does ignore a lot however, and seemingly on purpose (but the fact that it happens so much and he never tells what kind of device he uses for viewing the forum...)

Oh, by the way, that unvote?

...Alright, I was contending with myself for looooong a sabbatical evening, and...as far as I see, TDS has been too involved with the self that no logical person could go--he ignores and evades complete lines of text and rather than bother to read or quote consistently (because he can quote, if at least read and snip) he decides to generalize.

I am still unsure if he's just trolling my face out, however if the day end comes and I'm either too busy to have posted muchly, vote will return to the village idiot.

Okay, so, I read those bits, and I'm not sure what exactly your thinking is here. Do you suspect him or not? You've pretty adamantly pressed him up to now, and then you unvote and are suddenly reasonable, benefit of the doubt? Nah. Something's up here.

If it weren't for the fact that I do actually have a bit of a town read on you, and that I always get a scummy vibe off TDS, I'd start being really suspicious here, instead of just a little suspicious. Do I have reason to be, Tiruin?

I vehemently suspect him. You don't know how irked I am to expect some intelligent conversation, and instead get some kind of mish-mash in the form of brevity and generality.

What I was trying to do was unvote, then question others while grabbing my notes back and rolling on track--standing by the psychological notion of 'she's unvoted, there must be something up' from others' viewpoints. Nothing's up there but that.

Now, problem: TDS does the same thing as town. Metaknowledge? Heck yes. But there's nothing else but vagueness and a blur of accusation and rancid politicking (yeah. Politics.) coming from him to me. He provides a staunch list of accusations yet fails to back up even a single one of them. He's worried moreso about himself than any kind of team he seems to be on, hence why I asked him what's his 'self-reflection', if he can do such, about the forum Mafia games he's playing.

I believe I unvoted also partly because...I re-read that one ZU BM wherein I got stuff adamantly before a re-read cleared my fuzzy head. Here? It's still fuzzy. And it's still confused. TDS may be town, but he isn't being helpful at all--proving an easy lynch: problem being that I see little else on others commenting on him, which further pushes the case into the black zone of mystery. Best case: He's scum. Worst case: He's town--and he isn't doing much to save his case given his streak of ignorance of me, and the face of stoicism when I try to present logical arguments with him. I mean, bloody hell. I've tried multiple tactics to discern him out--assertivism, cautious formatting or transparency...he reacts the same, hence why I concluded its more of his personal 'thing' than a 'tell'. Sure, it could be that its within how he does that thing which makes him town or scum, but I..see him trying here. And that's all there is. Him. Trying. >_>

It's literally like talking to a Mafia rock. I get ignored, then accused, then ignored and categorized. I see no backing with him. I see mudslinging. I see self-preservation...and the best thing is that we've a set role list and thrice damn there is no jester.

...Also I didn't get how your FoS and the last statement connects. You...suspect me so I can give an answer for you to be suspicious of TDS?

*looks below the hr*

..I think you used my quote to poke at SBC.

[Tiruin]

Oh, EBWOP. I PFP'd because stuff and time were spent mostly on yon thesis I mentioned earlier. x__x

So many interview. So stress. Wow. Arghgh.

>_>
<_<

I'm all up for extending this, but only if others are given that the day ends on Monday, and I'll be darn well busy until Wednesday at best.

[makeinu]

makeinu: Extend.

We're heading into a no lynch, and that's bad juju, only stands to benefit scum. No lynch today (6:3) is MyLo tomorrow (5:3). At least with a lynch, we have a chance to push MyLo off another day.

Everyone: if you're not in here hunting, get your asses in gear.

PFP

Makeinu: You lost me with that reference to the data terminal.

Proper computer with a large screen and a keyboard.

Not addressing the rest just now. Getting irritated that everyone else is lurking. I see what you're trying to do, though, Tiruin.

..I think you used my quote to poke at SBC.

Yes, because it overlaps with mine, which I also used to poke at SBC, because his argument against TDS is "he's defensive" and has no supporting case. That's weak, and scummy, and he was online here after you poked at him and didn't respond, which is lurking, and scummy.

So now he has two pokes expecting him to explain his case when he pokes his whiskered head back in.

[Tiruin]

Tiruin: Extend.

Also *hugs makeinu*

[makeinu]

Tiruin: Extend.

Also *hugs makeinu*

Okay, just so we're clear here. My extend and your extend move the day end to Wednesday. That's what you want, right? Remember, we only get one extend per player.

[Urist Imiknorris]

Unvote.

I'm going to need a replacement.

[TheDarkStar]

Now, problem: TDS does the same thing as town. Metaknowledge? Heck yes. But there's nothing else but vagueness and a blur of accusation and rancid politicking (yeah. Politics.) coming from him to me. He provides a staunch list of accusations yet fails to back up even a single one of them. He's worried moreso about himself than any kind of team he seems to be on, hence why I asked him what's his 'self-reflection', if he can do such, about the forum Mafia games he's playing.

I believe I unvoted also partly because...I re-read that one ZU BM wherein I got stuff adamantly before a re-read cleared my fuzzy head. Here? It's still fuzzy. And it's still confused. TDS may be town, but he isn't being helpful at all--proving an easy lynch: problem being that I see little else on others commenting on him, which further pushes the case into the black zone of mystery. Best case: He's scum. Worst case: He's town--and he isn't doing much to save his case given his streak of ignorance of me, and the face of stoicism when I try to present logical arguments with him. I mean, bloody hell. I've tried multiple tactics to discern him out--assertivism, cautious formatting or transparency...he reacts the same, hence why I concluded its more of his personal 'thing' than a 'tell'. Sure, it could be that its within how he does that thing which makes him town or scum, but I..see him trying here. And that's all there is. Him. Trying. >_>

It's literally like talking to a Mafia rock. I get ignored, then accused, then ignored and categorized. I see no backing with him. I see mudslinging. I see self-preservation...and the best thing is that we've a set role list and thrice damn there is no jester.

Fair enough, unvote. I'll try to provide more information in the future, though, to avoid another 5 page argument.