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[TricMagic]

(Think I'll run a small 5 player idea I have just had.)

[Tomasque]

Mmm, maybe later.

I have something with a different premise in mind at the moment.

Though it'll have to be put on the queue, and preferably wait until after some less complex games.

Flashback Mafia is a game where you can choose any role from a previous game of mafia on this subform to take for yourself, though I'd reserve the right to tweak and adjust and reformat the role as needed to make the game work acceptably.

There should probably be at least some additional caveats, though. Any thoughts?

(The idea is that if you had a cool role but died early or the game ended early, or if someone else had a role you'd like to try, you can snatch it for this game, though the end result will inevitably be a mess)

The player that sends the most overpowered role is given a role of the GM's choice instead. Players will self-regulate, and you'll have complete control over 1 role, so you'll be able to inject a little balance into the setup. Thoughts?

[FallacyofUrist]

Yeah, there's going to be some issues with balance. It'd be interesting, though.

The player that sends the most overpowered role is given a role of the GM's choice instead. Players will self-regulate, and you'll have complete control over 1 role, so you'll be able to inject a little balance into the setup. Thoughts?

That is an excellent behavioral incentive.

[webadict]

Yeah, there's going to be some issues with balance. It'd be interesting, though.

The player that sends the most overpowered role is given a role of the GM's choice instead. Players will self-regulate, and you'll have complete control over 1 role, so you'll be able to inject a little balance into the setup. Thoughts?

That is an excellent behavioral incentive.

Well, as that's a more libertarian method of regulating, that only works if all players have equal knowledge of both all roles and all chosen roles. Far more likely, it'll created a flawed and unbalanced ecosystem, as the only judge for true fairness there is what has been deemed appropriate by the moderator, and that can only be assessed after all roles have been added. I expect you'll see more than 1 blatantly overpowered role, and that's why it won't work.

Instead, a better idea would be to powerscale as necessary, since that allows for people to pick horribly bad roles and have them scaled up OR horribly good roles and have them scaled down. Leveling the playing field is going to create a better game than having the players self-regulate.

[Tomasque]

Yeah, that sounds like a more balanced way to go about it. It gives some nice creative leeway to the Mod, too.

[ToonyMan]

Raging Loop Werewolf

Spoiler: Old Info (click to show/hide)

Immerse yourself in a thrilling psychological horror story game taking place in the secluded Japanese village of Yasumizu. A heavy mist surrounds the place, preventing everyone from ever leaving. Ancient gods have come back to hunt the villagers down one by one. The feast has begun, can you escape the village alive?

Around 13~ players.
Each role is guaranteed.

Day Phase:
Players vote who to hang. The player with the most votes is hung and dies, their role and alignment does not flip.
Hard 72 hours deadline, maybe have semi-hammers?

Night Phase:
Players send in their night actions if they have one.
Hard 24 hours deadline.

Once upon a time, the mountain by the village was the home of five beast guardians. During the feast, some of the villagers of Yasumizu will inherit their power.

Roles:
The Snake - can target one player each Night, learns if their target is a wolf or a human.
The Spider - can target one player each Night, protects their target from a wolf nightkill, cannot self-target.
The Monkeys - the two monkeys know each other's identities.
The Crow - learns if the player hung that Day was a wolf or a human.
The Wolves - can target one player each Night, that target dies if they're not protected by The Spider.
The Villagers - fill in the remaining slots, have no ability.

A normal-sized game will typically have 2-3 wolves. The amount of wolves is known at game start.

The game ends when all Wolves are hung or the Wolves equal/outnumber the Town.


Pretty simple setup, but with an interesting changeup.

You have the Snake who is the Cop, the Spider who is the Doctor, the Monkeys who are town Masons, and the Wolves who are your Mafia team. What makes this interesting is the lack of information on flips, this means the Wolves could very easily assume the identity of a power role after determining whether or not that player has actually died. Town will need to have a strong Day game to suss out Wolves. The Crow is a very important corpse checker, because they can definitively learn whether a dead player is town or mafia, but this role too can also be faked by the mafia team.

If you've read Raging Loop you might notice I left out some details, this is on purpose for fairness and balance.

Spoiler: OP post (WIP) (click to show/hide)

Raging Loup - Signups [0/13~]

Immerse yourself in a thrilling psychological deduction game taking place in the secluded Japanese village of Yasumizu. A heavy mist surrounds the place, preventing everyone from ever leaving. Ancient gods have come back to hunt the villagers down one by one. The feast has begun, can you pick out who the wolves are before they kill everyone, or can you fool the villagers as you kill them one by one?

Basic Rules READ
PMs between players is NOT allowed.
Quoting the Mod outside the main thread is NEVER ALLOWED.
72 hour days, 24 hour nights.
Vote in red and unvote red.
Don't edit your posts.
You get one uninformative "bah" post if you die.

Day Phase:
Players vote who to hang. The player with the most votes is hung and dies, their role and alignment does not flip.
Players can vote to No Lynch. Nobody will be hung that day.
A tied vote is a No Lynch.

Night Phase:
Players send in their night actions if they have one.

Once upon a time, the mountain by the village was the home of five beast guardians. During the feast, some of the villagers of Yasumizu will inherit their power.

Roles:
Town
The Snake - can target one player each Night, learns if their target is a wolf or a human.
The Spider - can target one player each Night, protects their target from a wolf nightkill, cannot self-target.
The Monkeys - the two monkeys know each other's identities.
The Crow - learns if the player hung that Day was a wolf or a human.
Villagers - have not been blessed with a beast guardian, have no ability.

Each town role is guaranteed to appear.
The Snake and Spider need to send me an action at night.
The Monkeys share a Quicktopic together.
The Crow will automatically be told their result at night.
Town wins when all Wolves have been hung.

Mafia
The Wolves - can target one player each Night, that target dies if they're not protected by The Spider.
Wolf Leader - can target one player each Night, can choose to either role-block their target or learn the role of their target. Can also perform the kill instead.

The amount of wolves is known at game start.
They all share a Quicktopic together.
One of the wolves will be a Wolf Leader.
Can only perform one kill each Night.
Wolves win when they equal or outnumber the Town at the start of a Day.

Example Role-PMs:

Players:


What does everyone want for hammers? I can do standard hammers or just have a deadline with the ability to shorten if a majority are for it.

Spoiler: Changelog (click to show/hide)

2021-02-22
Added Wolf Leader to discourage The Snake from claiming on Day 1.

[Superdorf]

Edit - ...this belongs in Games Discussion, not Setup Discussion. My bad 

[Skynet]

Spoiler: Raging Loop Feedback, to ToonyMan (click to show/hide)

ToonyMan: I like the setup, though the fact that there are no roleflips will tilt the game in favor of scum. The daygame seems heavily dependent on some sort of reliable information that anchors all the speculation, and roleflips tend to serve as that reliable information.

Maybe that would be a good reason to have more than one Snake and Crow out there to help provide info (though that might be a bad idea - right now, if the Snake and the Crow claim Day 1, then they pretty much resigned themselves to getting themselves  nightkilled or roleblocked...but if they are multiple Snakes and Crows, then at least a few of them will be able to survive the night and be able to provide valuable info to slowly and surely winnow down the scum force).

All Wolves are probably able to impersonate the Snake and the Crow easily...since they know who are Human (anyone who isn't in their quicktopic). Of course, if they tell the truth, they will simply be providing info to the Town to help them build "town cred" during the daygame...but if they lie by calling someone a Wolf when they are a Human, then the other Snake and Crow may find out, leading to a confrontation that the scum would rather avoid.

According to the EV Project, assuming 13 players, no power roles whatsoever, and random lynches and kills, a 2-person scum team has a 60.5% chance to win, and a 3-person scum team has a 79.2% chance to win. Granted, this assume random lynches/murders, and town tends to do better than what the EV Project predicts (simply because scum sometimes make mistakes during the daygame). Still that should probably mean that 2 to 3 players seem fairly reasonable for this setup.

---

Spoiler: Proposed Setup for Skynet's Seduction 2 (click to show/hide)

This is my attempts at creating an open setup based on Skynet's Seduction, hopefully being more balanced in the process (though I will need to do a bit more analysis before I feel that it's ready for primetime). It is a modified version of Jungle Republic, though with a bit more power roles and an emphasis on the "Seducer". Let me know what you think about it. No fluff written up yet, so these are just the roles.

12 players.

Special Roles:
- Commander: A person who will eventually gain fame during the future Skynet-Resistance War. They, however, are easily impressionable at this stage of their life and are thus weak to seduction attempts. If the Seducer seduces the Commander, they are immediately removed from the game.

- Seducer-Hunter: Every night, “rolecop” a player and checks if the target is a Seducer or a Seducer-Hunter…if they are, roleblock the target. Target knows if they've been targeted by the Seducer-Hunter.

- Seducer: Every night, visits a player and seduces them. If the target is a Commander, they are immediately removed from the game. Otherwise, the target becomes a Temporary Lover to the Seducer; the love affair will end at the end of the Day. The love affair is one-sided; if the Seducer is terminated, the Target commits suicide out of grief...but if the Target is terminated, the Seducer keeps being alive. Target knows they have been seduced, but do not know who the Seducer is.

2 players: Resistance-Aligned
- Serial Killer & Commander
- Seducer-Hunter & Backup Serial Killer

Special Rules:
- The Resistance will be given their own quicktopic.
- If the Serial Killer dies, the Backup Serial Killer inherits the Serial Killer's kill ability. They can kill while still being able to act as a Seducer-Hunter.
- Resistance wins if any of the following occurs:
 - The Resistance make up the majority of the remaining players (50% + 1) or nothing can be done to prevent the same. [The Resistance "endgames" all non-Resistance people.]
 - The Resistance equals the non-Resistance players, and at least one Town player is alive. [The Resistance is able to overpower the Town players, and then "endgames" their other enemies.]

3 players: Eco Party-Aligned
- Commander
- Seducer-Hunter
- Vanilla Goon

Special Rules:
- The Eco Party will be given their own quicktopic.
- The Eco Party does not have any nightkill. They are essentially an "evil mason" group.
- The Eco Party wins if any of the following occurs:
  - The Eco Party players equals the non-Eco Party players...or nothing can be done to prevent the same. [The Eco Party "endgames" all non-Eco Party people.]
  - Only one Town player is alive, and the Eco Party players equals the Resistance players. [A civil war breaks out between the three factions, a civil war that the Eco Party is well-positioned to win.]

7 players: Terminator-Aligned
- 6 Vanilla Townies
- 1 Seducer

Additional Rules:
- The game starts on Day 1.
- A Day is 72 real-life hours, and a Night is 24 real-life hours. No extensions.
- If a majority of the town (50% + 1) votes for a single target, that target is Hammered and the day immediately ends. No more conversation is permitted.
- When someone role flips (as a result of dying), their role name and alignment are revealed, but not their full Role PM. This role flip is guaranteed to be accurate.
- Do not quote directly from mod private communications (PMs or QuickTopic).
- Individuals who are not Terminator-Aligned Vanilla Townies will be given "Vanilla Townie" fakeclaims to help them blend in. It's up to them to decide how to use their fakeclaim properly.
- The "Night Action Order" is as follows: Resistance-Aligned Seducer-Hunter, Eco Party-Aligned Seducer-Hunter, Resistance-Aligned Serial Killer, Town-Aligned Seducer.

To Do:
- Come up with a better name for "Seducer-Hunter". That role seems important in balancing the Seducer, and giving the Resistance and Eco Party something to do during the night-game, but that name isn't all that great.
- Figure out a way to implement Vector's idea for having team members not named in their PMs (though this is a low priority). Right now, I assume that Resistance and Eco-Party knows who is part of their team. In the last Skynet's Seduction game, one Eco Party member knew the identity of the other Eco Party member...but that just led to the first Eco Party member reaching out to the second Eco Party member and talking privately to each other...so this "hidden info" didn't really seem to add much to the game.

[notquitethere]

Skynet, I think that's a promising setup. I like the strong town power with the seducer. I suspect that once two town players die you might have a similar thing as last time where the non-town aligned factions quickly collectively outnumber the town, but it might work out: both the Eco Party and the Resistance want to hunt each other as well as town.


Here's an idea I had based on the novel, not the film:

I Am Legend Mafia

Most of the players are vampires, except that there are a few fake vampire hiding in the midst. Every day when they all go to sleep, these humans go in and kill stake them in their sleep. At night the vampires vote who to exile.

- Day phase is for sleeping, night phase is for speaking (i.e. the names are swapped around)
- Normal balance of scum and town depending on number of players
- There are as many houses as there are players
- Each player has a house in the settlement: to kill, a human has to go to one of these houses: they kill all vampires in a house they visit
- At the start of each day, players can decide to sleep in their own house, or any other house
- Players are informed if they see another player sleeping in the same house as them
- Only one human kills during the day, the others sleep. No individual human can kill two night in a row (they need their rest)
- Players are allowed to PM each other
- At the start of each night, which house a player was killed in is revealed; players cannot sleep in a house where there was previously a slaying

[Skynet]

On Day 1, the Town will assign 2 people to each house (and will be able to verify which person goes to what house, since anyone who visits the House knows who else goes to that House), leaving behind vacant houses so they can be used in future Days. Anyone who deviates from the plan and goes to a different house is immediately suspicious, especially if said house gets purged. If an entire house is purged except for one plucky survivor who happened to be told by the Town to stay in that house, then that plucky survivor will be quick-exiled.

If the humans deviate from the plan by visiting a different house, 2 Vampires die, and if they stay in their own house and do the kill, only 1 Vampire will die, so they are incentivized to just leave to another house and get the multiple kill. Especially since no matter what the Humans will do, they will get caught.

This means it should be easy for Town to identify who did the Human-Kill. This might be balanced by the fact that 2 Townies will have to die just to confirm one Human. So each Human can be seen as disposable asset, able to take out people before getting exposed and promptly exiled. Figuring out the exact number of Humans versus Vampires would be key to balancing the setup - a single day/night cycle would mean 3 players are killed/exiled, and though Townies may quickly find out who are the Humans, they will wind up being quickly outnumbered.

[notquitethere]

Hmm, of course if two vampires are assigned to the same house as one another that plan falls apart-- they can fake-confirm each other.

But you're right, we'd want to throw a spanner of two more into these sort of game breaking stats. There was an idea I was playing with for an additional rule:

Exhaustion: after sharing a house with others, vampires fall asleep in their houses Exhausted the following Day; after performing a kill a human is similarly Exhausted the next Day. While Exhausted, a player cannot leave their home and they don't notice the comings and goings of others.

So everyone could stay in rooms the first day, but the next day the humans are going to be awake to kill and the poor vamps won't see anything coming. So the players might take it in shifts... can the town still game that? The first killer wouldn't show up to their confirmation group... but then they would be able to claim that the other person hadn't shown up either. So you'd get a battle of claims, it wouldn't be a sure thing either way.

[notquitethere]

I went back to the drawing board with CYOM and had a think about the essential features:

- Players get to pick their own roles, playing mafia their way
- Players can choose new abilities dynamically throughout the game to counter emerging threats
- Every ability should have a set of counters such that the game cannot be broken with a mass claim or co-ordination early on

#3 has been a bit shaky, especially in the last game. Also as I add more choices, the range of possible complications or runaway successes only grows. So I've developed a new variant on the idea Choose-Your-Own-Mafia: Auction Edition.

Spoiler: CYOM Auction Edition (click to show/hide)

When players get their alignments, they create 1-6 unique Agents adding up to 15 gold in value. If you make more than one agent, they cannot have the same profession. During the second part of each day, players may secretly bid on which Agent they'd like to control. Who wins what isn't revealed. Players can put as much money as they like on each Agent, and whoever bids highest wins it. Players can use the actions of as many Agents as they manage to win each phase. Agents belong to the players that win them until the start of the next bidding phase.

10 gold is earned at the start of each day and may be saved between phases. Agents whose top bid is a draw goes to the player who last owned it. If there's no such player, the Agent is unassigned. Any money put towards unsuccessful bids is retained.

During the first half of each day, player may secretly buy Agents for the pool: they appear at the start of the betting phase halfway through each day. Players can buy as many Agents as they can afford, though that's no guarantee at winning them in a bid. If a player goes two nights without controlling an Agent at the end of the night phase, they are eliminated from the game.

Players can privately gift each other Gold during the day phase if they wish. In this way, the mafia may pool their resources for bigger bids if they wish.

The way the mafia kill works is this: the mafia picks an agent to kill and names the player they think it belongs to OR a player they think created the Agent; if they are correct, the player they name is also eliminated. In order to carry out this kill, they need to use an Agent (who can be tracked etc.) to do the killing.

The mafia also get twice as much starting gold, which they can use to create agents to fakeclaim, or make a more powerful set of anti-town agents, as they see fit.

When a player is exiled, only their alignment is revealed.

Agent Creation

Name:
Cost: Combined Profession + Costume cost
Profession: (pick from the list)
Costume: (pick from the list)

Professions
There are 20 Professions and they are listed by how much it costs to add them to the pool. Once the game begins, the price of each Profession is increased by 1 for every Agent with that profession already in the pool.

1 Gold
Leech: Whoever owns the Leech loses any remaining Gold at the end of the Day.
Sloth: The Sloth cannot perform any actions, including the Mafiakill.

2 Gold
Pest: Pests can Challenge other Agents, redirecting their targeted actions to the Pest. Doesn't work on actions which don't target a specific Agent.
Costumer: You may spend Gold on a new Costume; any costume that you own (either on one of your Agents, or bought separately) can be used to Clothe any other Agent during the first phase of the day. You gain the Agents old costume, and they gain the costume you give them.

3 Gold
Banker: A banker can set aside any amount of money they have during the day; that money can always be spent or gambled as normal but never Leeched or Stolen.
Gambler: Gamble X amount of coins: 25% chance of losing the stake; 25% chance of losing half rounded up; 25% doubling the stake; 25% chance of tripling the stake.

4 Gold
Thief: Target a persona: Steal all gold from that Agent's current player.
Host: Name an Agent and a player, if that Agent is unassigned, it becomes Assigned to that player at the end of the night.

5 Gold
Bodyguard: Protect another Agent from Theft and Kill attempts.
Trainer: The agent can Retrain another Agent into another profession. Pay the Gold difference between their current profession and the one you want to change it to; the Agent will turn into that Profession at the end of the night.

6 Gold
Necromancer: Raise from the dead a previously slain Agent.
Corrupter: The agent can Corrupt another Agent, turning their Profession into "Sloth" at the end of the night.

7 Gold
Fashionista: Pick a Costume type during the day to become Passe. For the following night, that costume has no effect. The ineffective Costume is announced at the start the night.
Bouncer: Pick a Profession to be Banned. During the next day, no one can make new Agents with that Profession, and no one can bid on existing Agents with that Profession.

8 Gold
Magician: the Magician redirects an Agent onto another Agent
Detective: Track another Agent, learning who it targets.

9 Gold
Surveyor: A Surveyor learns the current owner of an Agent.
Assassin: Kill any other Agent.

10 Gold
Burgher: Gain 20 coins when you win this Agent in the Bidding phase.
Doge: The Doge can Pardon a player from the next Exile.

Costumes
The costumes add protections and other effects, but can increase the cost of an Agent.

0 -
Uniform: The owner of the Agent is revealed at the end of the Night.
Clown Shoes: Other players learn if their Agents have been targeted by this Agent.
Fursuit: The targets of this Agent are revealed at the end of the Night.

1-
Underwear: The Agent will put on another random costume when they first enter the Bidding pool.
Wraps: The Wraps appear as Bandages in the Agent's description. The Agent's Wraps become Bloodstained Bandages if the Agent kills anyone.
Skinsuit: Once worn, the Skinsuit can never be removed.

2-
Bouncer Jacket: New Agents may not be Assigned by a Host to this Agent's player.
Disguise: Name another costume when chosen: the Disguise appears as that other costume.
Bloodstained Bandages: After one whole cycle, these become Bandages.

3-
Studs: This Agent cannot be Challenged or Redirected
Traveller's Cloak: This Agent cannot be stolen from
Bandages: The Agent is revived at the end of a night in which they are killed and the bandages become Bloodstained Bandages.

4-
Lead Trousers: This Agent cannot be Surveyed.
Camo Shorts: The Agent cannot be Tracked.
Speed Injectors: This Agent can act twice in the night, but will die at the end of any night in which they act.

5 -
Body Armour: The Agent ignores the first kill against them each phase.
Trick Sleeves: This Agent ignores Protects.
Bomb Jacket: The first Agent to target this Agent will be killed, along with this Agent.

Action order:

Actions are processed in this order. Order conflicts between identical abilities are resolved randomly.

Challenge
Redirect
Protect
Gamble
Assign
Steal
Survey
Kill
Raise
Ban
Retrain
Corrupt

Day:
Bank
Clothe
Passe

Game Order:

- Alignment Assigning
- Character Creation
- The initial Agents are revealed
- D1 begins, everyone gets ten gold and during the first half of the day may buy new Agents for the pool
- In the middle of D1, the current pool is updated and everyone may secretly bet
- Someone may be exiled
- Night Begins, and players learn which Agents they've won
- During the night they use their Agent's abilities to further their wincon
- Day and night cycles continue until someone wins

Here's the TL;DR:
- Players create Agents, who each have a Profession (which can give an ability like Track, Redirect etc.), and a Costume (which protects against different powers).
- Players then bid on these Agents with gold earned each day.
- If you have no Agents at the end of two nights running, you are exiled from the game, so winning some bids is essential.
- The mafiakill is designed to inhibit claims and co-ordination, as they can kill the owner or creator of any Agent with it.

I've tried to make a lot of possible winning schemes but with all of them counterable. Let me know if you think you have a gamebreaking strategy. I have considered running it with two mafia teams as that's often fun.

[Caz]

Are there any setups where some players don't know their alignment? Or aren't told it until later? Or a setup where players can choose to change their alignment (probably at great cost)?

The only role I can think that does this so far is the cult conversion, right?

[Mephansteras]

Hmm, it'd actually be interesting to do that with some 3rd party roles. Not tell them what they are until night 1. Keeps them more engaged day 1 and might change the meta a bit of some games.

But it's not something I've tried yet beyond conversions, which are a bit different in that it's not the set-up hiding the alignment but more player driven. 

[ToonyMan]

I've seen a mafia game where a mafia-ally player is told they're town before the game starts, but learns their true alignment during N1.

I would consider passive alignment changes like this pretty bastard-y though.