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[Sheb]

How is Ukraine's political system? Proportional? Or will the creating of that new far-right party split the vote and hurt the nationalist far-right's election chance?

[Guardian G.I.]

We should write a letter to the Paradox Entertainment to give a player the ability to invade a state without declaring war.

It'll be very useful when reconstructing American "humanitarian interventions", which were also started without any formal declarations of war.

Yes, but if we can understand that statement as being directly related to the current events in Crimea: Do you seriously think that Crimea is comparable to, let's say, Srbenica?

Russian media portray events in Ukraine as if Ukrainian nationalists have been practically on the verge of massacring Russian civilians and that only Russian intervention can save the Russian population of Ukraine and Crimea. However, the humanitarian aspect in Yugoslavia and Crimea (as well as elsewhere) was and remains only a formal excuse hiding the true reasons - the political and economic interests of intervening countries.

Also, this picture is basically this thread in a nutshell:
(the insignias read: The Sofa Self-Defense Hundred - #Eurosofa and Sofa Armed Forces - Slow Response Unit)

[Sheb]

What was the Western economic benefits of intervening in Yugoslavia? Also, the evidence that massacre was going to happen in Yugoslavia was quite a big stronger. For example dead peoples. You didn't see lots of Ukrainian Russian being killed in Crimea or other places.

Also, I love that pic.

[Helgoland]

We should write a letter to the Paradox Entertainment to give a player the ability to invade a state without declaring war.

It'll be very useful when reconstructing American "humanitarian interventions", which were also started without any formal declarations of war.

Yes, but if we can understand that statement as being directly related to the current events in Crimea: Do you seriously think that Crimea is comparable to, let's say, Srbenica?

Russian media portray events in Ukraine as if Ukrainian nationalists have been practically on the verge of massacring Russian civilians and that only Russian intervention can save the Russian population of Ukraine and Crimea. The humanitarian aspect in Yugoslavia and Crimea (as well as elsewhere) was and remains only a formal excuse hiding the true reasons - the political and economic interests of intervening countries.

Funny - we have pretty solid evidence of mass killings in Srbenica, and the Rada didn't even manage to pass a law restricting the use of Russian as an official language that didn't even apply to Crimea... Even if the fundamental reasons for intervention are the same, I'd argue that the degree of justification is just so hilariously different as to make the two completely uncomparable.

And before anyone argues with the Iraq war: If you do that, you're basically saying Putin is wrong and should move out before he does any real damage.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

How is Ukraine's political system? Proportional? Or will the creating of that new far-right party split the vote and hurt the nationalist far-right's election chance?

We have a nice tradition to change election system before any new elections in parliament
The last one was - half proportional with 4% barrier\half Majoritarian.

Right Sector vs Svoboda competition may reduce total number of nationalists in parliament but I'd wait for the political program of the party that will come from the Right Sector (It is announced that the name will be different)

Surprisingly, high anti-rating of Svoboda in South-Eastern Ukraine can benefit Right Sector a lot should they decide to attack the things that make Svoboda unpopular.
"we are different kind of nationalists" strategy can work very well.

[Sheb]

What are the things that make Svodoba unpopular?

[Guardian G.I.]

What was the Western economic benefits of intervening in Yugoslavia? Also, the evidence that massacre was going to happen in Yugoslavia was quite a big stronger. For example dead peoples. You didn't see lots of Ukrainian Russian being killed in Crimea or other places.

Also, I love that pic.

Russian sources, as well as some left-wing Western sources (Boris Malagurski and his film Weight of Chains is a good example) claim that the main Western goal in Yugoslavia was to tear it into several small, easily controllable colonies that would provide cheap labour and be a market for Western goods. They also claim that the Western policy towards Eastern European countries and the former USSR is basically the same - transforming independent countries into colonies. Judging by how the main export of Poland, the Baltic states and other former socialist countries is practically only cheap labour (the famous Polish plumbers come to mind), they are not entirely wrong.

Also, some Russians might say that the Russian intervention prevented the appearance of dead Russian peoples.

[Darvi]

Fun fact: this is the first time I've been informed about something before I heard Jon Stewart talking about it.

[Sheb]

Yeah, right, that's why every Western country tried to impose limits on how many immigrants could come and work...

[Ukrainian Ranger]

What are the things that make Svodoba unpopular?

Overly aggressive language policy, idea to return to the Soviet norm with ethnicity written in passport,  too much attention to  14th waffen SS division, torch marches*, former name and logo, stubborned in using "Жид" word** by some Svoboda members. That's to name few problems that create bad reputation

*I always said that this is idiotic

**another idiotic thing. Yep. It is a normal word meaning Jew in many Slavic languages including Ukrainian. It is the word that is used in all classical Ukrainian literature. But in Russian language that is derogatory term for Jews. Not strange that Russian speakers dislike hearing that word from someone who aims to be a respectable party.

[Guardian G.I.]

Yeah, right, that's why every Western country tried to impose limits on how many immigrants could come and work...

Well, you can't just replace all unskilled workers with Poles, even though it would definitely be more profitable. Your reputation would suffer.

Still, if the EU decided to support the modernization of their Eastern European members's economies, especially industries, their people wouldn't have to go to Britain, France or Germany to find work, unskilled workers of Britain, France or Germany wouldn't object, Russians wouldn't have a point to build their propaganda around, the EU's reputation would be high and a lot of countries would genuinely desire to join the EU. But, such policies be very expensive and would create competition for EU and American corporations. They sponsor European politicians' political careers, and they definitely wouldn't approve that hurdle for their profit-making business.

[Sheb]

And you think Right Sector will be, well, less extreme on those subjects?

Guardian GI: the "dead russian people" excuse does not hold at all. There are no russian troops outside Crimea, and no ethnic cleansing or anything there.

As for industrial policy, well, I agree with you. The EU is way too liberal in some aspect, and we could do with more regional help (we do help them modernize, I just think we ought to do more). But still, why would be bomb and break apart Yougoslavia for cheap labor when we could just have a work permit system? That theory doesn't make any sense.

[Guardian G.I.]

As for industrial policy, well, I agree with you. The EU is way too liberal in some aspect, and we could do with more regional help (we do help them modernize, I just think we ought to do more). But still, why would be bomb and break apart Yougoslavia for cheap labor when we could just have a work permit system? That theory doesn't make any sense.

Bombing a country to smithereens allows Western companies to get their hands on reconstruction contracts. The activities of KBR and Halliburton in Iraq is a perfect example. Plus, dismembering a country makes it more susceptible to political and economic manipulation and pressure.
Russian anti-Western sources' claims that the West plans to dismember Russia aren't very illogical - the West would profit more from having several puppet states in the place of Russia instead of having to deal with a united Russia. Unfortunately for the West, the horrible totalitarian dick-tator Putin objects.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

And you think Right Sector will be, well, less extreme on those subjects?

I don't know.
I am sure that it will be not more extreme.

[Sheb]

The West got plans to tear Russia apart? No one told me.

And do you really believe we bombed Serbia to get reconstruction contract? Also, Yugoslavia, even united, wouldn't be that big, 22 millions people at most (Before you account for population loss from the others Srebnica...). No trouble getting them to join the EU and adhere to our laws.