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Yes

19 (46.3%)

No

9 (22%)

It should be more than that

6 (14.6%)

It should be less than that

7 (17.1%)

Total Members Voted: 41

[Elephant Parade]

((A +2+2 distraction could potentially make your opponent fumble a much larger spell. Once you're guaranteed the time to work, it's all about tactics and creativity- essentially, the art of stopping your opponent with as little power as possible.))

((But what if you don't have enough essences for even a +2/+2 spell? What if you were just in a fight, or you recently joined, or you just cast a huge spell? What if the other person struck from surprise? What's to stop me from instantly unleashing a +10/+10 curse on someone from across the map? Alternatively, I could feign diplomacy with someone, only to drop a +10/+10 deathspell on them from nowhere; speed penalties are meaningless if only one person is attacking. A conditional action might be able to take care of the second one, but adding "attack them if they attack me" to every action would get old fast.

I don't think you should be able to wield high-power, high-accuracy magic on a turn's notice, even if you go last within that turn.))

((If you use a +7/+7 doom spell in combat, you're basically going last. All it takes is one "ranged(-1) shatter(0 or -1) skull(-1)" to put an end to that doom spell. So yeah, what Whisperling said.))
((Or better yet, summon a sword ahead of time and stab stab.))

((One bad roll—out of two—will allow them to survive, though, and then you're dead for sure. The sword is similar: even if your affinity allows you to make decent gear, you're dead if you fail your attack roll.))

[ATHATH]

Ah, but the SPD penalties encourage making alliances- if you try to kill one guy with a +10/+10 doomspell, his buddy kills you next turn (you just used all of your essences).

It might be interesting if the penalties persisted for a few turns (depending on severity), or if you lost spellcasting from that affinity for a few turns (essences used/4, perhaps?), so that the allies of whoever you killed could find you and kill you much easier.

[Whisperling]

But what if you don't have enough essences for even a +2/+2 spell?

((Well then, you should probably try breaking your opponent's nose and stuffing a gag into their mouth. The existence of spells doesn't prevent your from making full use of your fists.

In any case, a temporary lack of magical power is a perfectly reasonable trade-off for fighting or casting a large spell. It's basically what happens in real life, albeit with exhaustion of a more physical kind.))


((As for new players...

I know the first incarnation of gloomy had a pretty bad experience, but in all honesty, he had some terrible luck to match. Literally every moderately-established player in the game has gotten past that initial stage of weakness. That's ~18 now, plus many others who have died over the course of 134 turns.))

[NAV]

I just want a system based on creativity rather than pure number management. And I want a simple elegant system rather than an increasing amount of rules patched onto a broken system.

[Sarrak]

I just want a system based on creativity rather than pure number management. And I want a simple elegant system rather than an increasing amount of rules patched onto a broken system.

This. I'd move my vote (number restriction) to the ritual system if possible. Althogh essences seem vital, it is possible to discard them...

[H4zardZ1]

But what if you don't have enough essences for even a +2/+2 spell?

((Well then, you should probably try breaking your opponent's nose and stuffing a gag into their mouth. The existence of spells doesn't prevent your from making full use of your fists.))

((Try combining that with force-type spells, and now you could kill someone with only +2/+2 or less(well, actually because it has more roll, so it becomes pot+str/cmp+dex roll instead)))

[star2wars3]

I just want a system based on creativity rather than pure number management. And I want a simple elegant system rather than an increasing amount of rules patched onto a broken system.

This. I'd move my vote (number restriction) to the ritual system if possible. Althogh essences seem vital, it is possible to discard them...

I think suggested an idea in the initial nerf round of having a duel system, 1being essence based for quick spells, and the other being ritual magic, a slower yet more powerful magic that takes time and preparation. So I will ask again now, is it necessary to debuff essence (quick spell) based magic and replace it when we could create other magical options.

Even if essences as we know it are removed I for one will continue to use them. (Albeit I may need to enchant an object to break any new essence rules)

Here is an example of how ritual and essence magics could blend. You draw a summoning circle. You place objects that will be sacrificed within the ritual in the correct location, then you use essences to power up the ritual. (The original creation of vortex bane is a proto-type example of this)

[Elephant Parade]

But what if you don't have enough essences for even a +2/+2 spell?

((Well then, you should probably try breaking your opponent's nose and stuffing a gag into their mouth. The existence of spells doesn't prevent your from making full use of your fists.))

((Try combining that with force-type spells, and now you could kill someone with only +2/+2 or less(well, actually because it has more roll, so it becomes pot+str/cmp+dex roll instead)))

((That doesn't change the fact that—if you flub *one* roll, and it's a roll you likely have penalties on—your opponent has a 100% chance to kill you. One-turn kills should require creativity and preparation, and no, essences don't count as preparation.))

[H4zardZ1]

But what if you don't have enough essences for even a +2/+2 spell?

((Well then, you should probably try breaking your opponent's nose and stuffing a gag into their mouth. The existence of spells doesn't prevent your from making full use of your fists.))

((Try combining that with force-type spells, and now you could kill someone with only +2/+2 or less(well, actually because it has more roll, so it becomes pot+str/cmp+dex roll instead)))

((That doesn't change the fact that—if you flub *one* roll, and it's a roll you likely have penalties on—your opponent has a 100% chance to kill you. One-turn kills should require creativity and preparati
on, and no, essences don't count as preparation.))

((Remember 'or less'? You could essentially insta-incapicate someone without using any essences at all.))

[endlessblaze]

I have thought it over some more and I hereby change my vote to ritual magic

[ATHATH]

Keep in mind that one of the things I like about Roll to Magic is that combat is short and exciting, and doesn't drag on and on like the combat of other RTD's. Sure, it may take a while for a combat to happen, but that's part of why I joined F.E.C.E.S.- they help shake things up and make people spend essences before they can reach uber-do-everything levels of power.

[Elephant Parade]

But what if you don't have enough essences for even a +2/+2 spell?

((Well then, you should probably try breaking your opponent's nose and stuffing a gag into their mouth. The existence of spells doesn't prevent your from making full use of your fists.))

((Try combining that with force-type spells, and now you could kill someone with only +2/+2 or less(well, actually because it has more roll, so it becomes pot+str/cmp+dex roll instead)))

((That doesn't change the fact that—if you flub *one* roll, and it's a roll you likely have penalties on—your opponent has a 100% chance to kill you. One-turn kills should require creativity and preparati
on, and no, essences don't count as preparation.))

((Remember 'or less'? You could essentially insta-incapicate someone without using any essences at all.))

((I'm aware. My point was that if you fail to interrupt them—which is extremely likely, if you just joined haven't pumped up STR—the other person can definitely kill you.))

Out of curiosity: DG, could you run the numbers on incapacitating/interrupting someone with an unarmed blow? Or, if that takes too much time, I'd like to know the minimum rolls required to interrupt someone with a punch.))

[NAV]

I'm guessing about 25% incapacitation. 50% chance to hit them, and 50% chance to stun or incapacitate if it hits. Of course it would also depend on stats and weapons/armour.

[Elephant Parade]

I'm guessing about 25% incapacitation. 50% chance to hit them, and 50% chance to stun or incapacitate if it hits. Of course it would also depend on stats and weapons/armour.

((The hit chance would be 100% if they're casting a deathspell, thanks to the absurd DEX penalty. Still, that's a 50/50 chance of dying in one turn.))

[DreamerGhost]

With no +/- on either side, stunning someone is 5/36 chance with unarmed blow.