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Fits perfectly.

Looks good.

Ok I guess.

Not convinced.

This is bad.

This is very bad.

[Meph]

Here my concept for human guilds. Its a large project, so I want to double check with the players if they like it. Please vote on the poll or tell me in the comments what you think. There will be 12 guilds, just like in Dwarf mode, just that each guild gets several workshops. And upgrades to them. With all the multiplication going on, the number of buildings I have to design in the end goes up a lot.

Ingame, you will only see 5 buildings in the menu: Guildhall, Guild Extension (N),  Guild Extension (E),  Guild Extension (S),  Guild Extension (W). Everything else is done with upgrades.





PPS: The corners around the 5 workshops are perfect for stockpiles.

PPPS: Building Destroyers and tantrums would seriously be a threat. If your level 4 guildhall gets razed, just before you upgrade to level 5... you lose 20.000 gold coins.

[Samarkand]

This idea would give the progression people were looking for, and in very few buildings in the workshop menu. Love it.

[omniclasm]

Sounds like an alright idea.

Honestly, though, I'd prefer if instead of the "guild sigil" thing, it was a reaction used in the middle hall. The "guild leader" would run a reaction in the middle, and it would give a temporary bonus to workers in the area. The leader or whatever would probably just run the reaction on repeat.

This is just personal preference, though, because making animals into "objects" like landmines and such has always felt off for me.

[Meph]

The leader or whatever would probably just run the reaction on repeat.

Wouldnt work, because reactions on 'R' do not trigger AutoSyndrome.

It also means more micromanagement. It also means that you can make 10 guildhalls and run 10 of these reactions at the same time. The sigils will also be created directly in the guildhall, they will spawn in exactly the spot where they should stay. So no pasturing or micromanagement needed there.

The guild sigils are a very minor thing, they dont take long to write. The buildings are the important question here, what do you think about them?

[kizucha]

For me it looks perfect.^^ And i like the corners for stockpiles.

[greycat]

and in very few buildings in the workshop menu

This is precisely why it's critical to have up-to-date manuals.  If you're playing as (for example) kobolds, you are told that you need to make a wooden shovel which wears out after a week.  Wooden shovel, eh?  OK, so it's in the carpenter's shop?  Build a carpenter's shop, look through the menu... no.  OK, maybe it's in the craftbold's shop?  Build a craftbold's shop, look through the menu... no.  Huh.  OK, maybe it's in a new workshop.  Open the workshop menu, look through the available buildings... can't find anything.  Could it possibly be a furnace?  Open the furnace menu... no.  Oh, but wait, there are these upgradeable tent things.  So maybe if I build this worktop... OK, build a worktop, look inside it.  It has upgrade options but none of them are right.  Maybe it's in a tent?  Make a tent, look inside it... no.  And so on.

Then, you have a tent, and you upgrade it to one of the choices.  Now you have some other workshop, so you don't have a tent, so you can no longer see what all the choices were.  Did you forget?  Too bad.  Build a second one so you have the menu, so you can see what the choices are!

Now, I'm not complaining about the basic concept of upgradeable buildings.  I'm just saying they have to be well documented.  Somewhere.  The kobolds are not currently well documented, and it's extremely frustrating.

[Meph]

Yeah, I understand the problem. Especially when you no longer see the buildings in the workshop menu.  I am working on manuals as well.

But this human system is a very simple progression, it lends itself to flowcharts.

[Snaaty]

This looks like a really good idea.

One thing that comes to mind though, a fully upgraded Guildhall takes up 13x13 squares. If I want to build say just 5 of the 12 Guildhalls, my aboveground-fort is pretty full. Not sure if this is actually going to be a problem.

Generally, regarding humans, is there only the commerce theme going on? I think it's really fitting, but will it be enough?

Also, is the different Human nations thing still something you have planned? And would those influence the Guildhalls?

Keep up the good work, Meph.

[Meph]

Currently they have these buildings/ideas:
All vanilla buildings.
Several minor mod buildings, nothing important.
Guilds. 12 different ones, unlocked an industry each.
Traders. 10 each, giving access to buy/selling reactions for race specific items.
Show Stages (only a concept). 10 each, giving access to AoE buffs like the tavern, race specific.
Workers. 10 each, giving access to race specific industries (for example Dwarf Worker make good metals, Gnome worker makes machinery)

The different nations thing is something I still have in mind, but I dont know how much I can get done between the groundwork on humans and the manuals. If, then I will add it last. It would not influence the guilds though, that would be too much for certain.

So they have the big guild system and the big trading system, and a tiny, tiny bit from each other race. I think that should be enough to make them interesting. The mining will be different as well, you will have to do strip mines.

[palu]

Looks great, but yeah, they could be a little smaller. Also 5000 coins? That Seems like an awful lot. Where are humans going to get them all? Especially since they don't mine.
Edit: Also, I thought sawmills would be a basic human building, seeing as wood is their primary building material. Not something they have to pay 1000 gold for, and probably focus on the carpentry industry.

Also, especially in the early stages, it's kind of hard to tell what guild hall it is. Other than that though, it looks really good.

[Snaaty]

@Meph Okay, that does sound interesting, I have to say.

Another thing I would find fitting would be big farming areas. Is it possible to increase the amount of food a creature/entity needs?

Also, is it possible to add negative thoughts, if the creature didn't have a well-balanced diet recently (meaning: Meat, Fish and Plants)?

[Meph]

Looks great, but yeah, they could be a little smaller. Also 5000 coins? That Seems like an awful lot. Where are humans going to get them all? Especially since they don't mine.

You do mine. Strip mine. They can dig just like any other race, its just that it shouldnt be underground. So if you make a huge area and strip level for level, you have light/aboveground while mining.

And you trade goods with merchant stall buildings like you can do in dwarf mode. AND you can rent out merchant stalls and workshops to foreign workers. You get a "contract" tool from a caravan (or 5 or 10) and rent 5-10 buildings to goblin merchants. Bam, 500 gold each.

A bank will be made to change money (bronze/silver/gold) and a coin mint will provide your own money, if you have bronze, silver or gold ore that you produce yourself.

Another thing I would find fitting would be big farming areas. Is it possible to increase the amount of food a creature/entity needs?
Also, is it possible to add negative thoughts, if the creature didn't have a well-balanced diet recently (meaning: Meat, Fish and Plants)?

Farms are hardcoded, as is food consumption. I thought about large, fake-farm workshops, but I havent decided yet. It would look fitting, but I dont know if it would work well.

Mh.. in theory its possible to give all creatures negative effects, and add posivite effects that negate them to food. So if a dwarf only eats plump helmets and drink water, he doesnt get rid of the negative effects that drinks, meat and fish would cure. But thats race wide and I wont do it, simply because you cant micromanage what a person eats. Even if there is a Plant+Egg+Meat+Fish lavish meal, the dwarf might eat a egg+egg+egg+egg lavish meal right next to it. It cannot be done in any sensible way.

[Kaos]

mmm... I don't know... We'd have to place 5 buildings plus 5 upgrades for the main one, for every industry? besides the big amount of buildings you'll have to design.... why not simplify it a little bit? like you were saying: quarters, 1 big building, carpenter's quarters, engineer's quarters, etc... so you can have the medieval quarters feel, and upgrade that 1 building, and visually add the N,S,W,E expansions within that one building, all reactions would be in 1 menu too, can you have one building be used by many units??

[Meph]

Because that would be horrible. 

You would have 1 large building, that can do everything, yes. But it is stock full of hundrets of reactions that you have to scroll through, and only one single worker can work at a time.

[Kaos]

I thought so...

so the guildhall and the wings would replace the regular workshops? I can see the reactions for the wings but what the big guildhall in the middle do??