Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Shakerag]

flabort:

flabort:

Shakerag When is the appropriate time to be angry at a player? Should you post on Mafia while angry?

When is the appropriate time?  Whenever someone does something boneheaded. 
Should you post angry?  I don't see why not.  Sometimes that raw emotion can help persuade others.  Of course, it can be easier to make mistakes when posting angry as well.  So I suppose that's a bit of a double-edged sword. 

I see. So when looking for mistakes, one should examine angry posts first?

I think when one is looking for mistakes one should analyze all posts, but anything with strong emotion in it should be carefully looked at.  Whether you want to do that first or not is up to you, I suppose. 

Any particular reason you're asking me for advice on how to pick a mislynch target instead of your scumbuddies, flabort?

[flabort]

Wait, advice on a mislynch target? That's not what that is!
It's getting a firm grasp of your level of skill, and learning from that.
I don't have any "buddies" that I care about. I'm not trying to drive the lynch away from anyone.
But then again, WIFOM, now you think I'm trying to get my buddies lynched.

Seriously, based on your comment, who would you assume my "buddies" are? I think most of the players have had an emotional reaction so far.

[Shakerag]

flabort:

Wait, advice on a mislynch target? That's not what that is!
It's getting a firm grasp of your level of skill, and learning from that.
I don't have any "buddies" that I care about. I'm not trying to drive the lynch away from anyone.
But then again, WIFOM, now you think I'm trying to get my buddies lynched.

Seriously, based on your comment, who would you assume my "buddies" are? I think most of the players have had an emotional reaction so far.

Oh, I don't think you're trying to lynch one of your scumbuddies.  I think you're trying to mislynch some random townie.  I just wonder why you want my advice over the advice of your scumbuddies.  Shouldn't they be helping you figure out how to take an emotional reaction and turn it into a lynch? 

[Toaster]

Nerjin:

America

When are you up for reelection?  Have you reached your term limit?  Who do you suspect of being a terrorist?

What benefit do you find in your politician-speak obfuscating your posts?


NQT:

Toaster

William Shatner?

Not. even. close.

Picard, then.  With powers such as "The Picard Maneuver" and "Facepalm".

Toaster, theory time now: does it matter for the town's chances of success who gets voted on Day 1?

Absolutely.

That said, I'd say it does make more impact based on the role of the player eliminated.  Think Paranormal; what if an Advanced Doppelganger or Exterminator got lynched the first day?  That'd make things significantly easier for town.

I guess it's more likely for a D1 lynch to make things better for town than worse, given the town's power is almost never concentrated on one person.

In terms of day-game, not as much.  A successful lynch of scum would lead to analysis of how others dealt with that player, which could yield hints toward teammates, while D1 interactions with a townie are almost always unhelpful.


(I also realized I read "voted" as "lynched" in your question; I hope that's what you meant.)


Flabort:

Toaster I don't recall that you've been any more active than me. Is this due to the eye problems?

Until day-end Friday, yes.  Over the weekend, that was procrastination on my part.  Also, if I'm quiet this week before Friday, feel free to call me out over it.  I'm good until then.

Do you see value in shooting off that many questions?


Shakerag:

Shakerag When is the appropriate time to be angry at a player? Should you post on Mafia while angry?

When is the appropriate time?  Whenever someone does something boneheaded. 
Should you post angry?  I don't see why not.  Sometimes that raw emotion can help persuade others.  Of course, it can be easier to make mistakes when posting angry as well.  So I suppose that's a bit of a double-edged sword. 

Posting drunk is more fun.

Do you expect to get a third party role from your Shakerag© submissions?



I suspect that post "restrictions" are probably optional but provide some benefit to the participant.

[flabort]

flabort:

Wait, advice on a mislynch target? That's not what that is!
It's getting a firm grasp of your level of skill, and learning from that.
I don't have any "buddies" that I care about. I'm not trying to drive the lynch away from anyone.
But then again, WIFOM, now you think I'm trying to get my buddies lynched.

Seriously, based on your comment, who would you assume my "buddies" are? I think most of the players have had an emotional reaction so far.

Oh, I don't think you're trying to lynch one of your scumbuddies.  I think you're trying to mislynch some random townie.  I just wonder why you want my advice over the advice of your scumbuddies.  Shouldn't they be helping you figure out how to take an emotional reaction and turn it into a lynch?

Exactly. If I had Scumbuddies, they'd be helping me with that. Since their not, I don't.

Flabort:

Toaster I don't recall that you've been any more active than me. Is this due to the eye problems?

Until day-end Friday, yes.  Over the weekend, that was procrastination on my part.  Also, if I'm quiet this week before Friday, feel free to call me out over it.  I'm good until then.

Do you see value in shooting off that many questions?

Yes, I do. It makes sure that I don't miss anyone and forget that someone exists, therefor letting me remember to evaluate that player, and get more information on each player. Even the nonsense questions garner information about the player, resulting in the philosophy that "More questions equals more results".

[Toaster]

flabort:

Wait, advice on a mislynch target? That's not what that is!
It's getting a firm grasp of your level of skill, and learning from that.
I don't have any "buddies" that I care about. I'm not trying to drive the lynch away from anyone.
But then again, WIFOM, now you think I'm trying to get my buddies lynched.

Seriously, based on your comment, who would you assume my "buddies" are? I think most of the players have had an emotional reaction so far.

Oh, I don't think you're trying to lynch one of your scumbuddies.  I think you're trying to mislynch some random townie.  I just wonder why you want my advice over the advice of your scumbuddies.  Shouldn't they be helping you figure out how to take an emotional reaction and turn it into a lynch?

Exactly. If I had Scumbuddies, they'd be helping me with that. Since their not, I don't.

That's some nice WIFOM you're pouring there.

[flabort]

That's some nice WIFOM you're pouring there.

It's impossible to answer the question without WIFOM (Actually, Vodka would be more appropriate than Wine). If I asked you why you weren't getting help from your scumbuddies about something, your answer would be the same.

That said, "Why aren't your buddies helping you catch up?"
Shakerag "Why aren't your buddies helping you mislynch me?"
Nerjin "Why aren't your buddies helping you disprove doubt about any post restrictions?"

I predict that all three questions will result in very VIFOM answers.

[Jack A T]

Jack A T What BYORs have you participated in? Which BYOR was your favorite?

flabort: Off the top of my head (this is probably an incomplete list), I've played in BYOR 6.3, BYOR 7 (my favorite), BYOR 11, Bring Someone Else's Role, Bring Your Own Historical Figure, Why Would You Do That?: A Mafia Misadventure, Bring Your Own Picture, Bring Your Own Picture 2, and Totem Mafia.  I have run a BYOR as well.

How is this answer going to help you in the long run?  Why so much RVS stuff now, when people are and have been making serious accusations?

My case on Cheeetar was entirely based on his misinterpretation of Miller, and how dense he was being over the matter. Now that he's changed his mind, I don't have a case. I still suspect him with my gut, but have no case whatsoever to vote him over.

So, if you suspect him, and have for some time, and felt you didn't have enough evidence, why weren't you trying to gather more evidence and improve your read?  You stopped interacting with him in the middle of the miller mess.

@nqt: Toaster 4mask Cheetar Irony. That good for you?

TolyK: And why, if shooting from the hip, would you think they are scum?  Anything specific of note about them?

Erp, sorry. Anyway- I see RVS votes as votes in Day 1 which have basically no reason. By no reason, I don't mean they can't attach a reason- just that if the reason is really silly, it might as well be no reason. For example, I see "I'm voting Varee because he likes oranges and only the scum like oranges" as more or less the same as "I'm voting 4maskwolf for being rude only the scum are rude."

Cheeetar: Ah, we have very similar views of RVS votes.  You just failed to take tone into account.  There's a difference between the latter of those two "reasons" and the vote placed by Persus13: tone.  He wasn't making a joke vote, and it showed.  So I voted, and got him to explain his vote more.  By the time you came in, even if you saw the initial vote as looking like RVS-type stuff, you should have noticed that Persus was trying to put together a case.

I dont see anything "suspicious" as of yet. the miller debate is informative but dosent really tell much. Will just have to wait and see i guess

Varee: Might it be a better idea to try to dig for suspicious stuff? Ask questions and such?

Jack, your list of reads includes only 15 players, is your impression of Shakerag utterly null?

Imp: I must have accidentally skipped over him on the list.
On Shakerag: He's here, he says his role won't screw everyone over, and he's active.  He did attack and vote Persus13 for Persus's Wolf vote without reading a large part of the justification of the vote, making him come off as a bit twitchy.  Wary neutral read.

A question to you: Have you read my recent BYOR?  It may be of use to see how Varee played there.

My scum pick right now is Nerjin, for threatening to vote me out of irritation over a single post.  While I can understand his frustration, threatening a vote over a minor nuisance like that is beyond what I would expect from someone.

4maskwolf: An interesting move, but not an impressive one.  What makes scum more likely than town to do what Nerjin did?  Where's the advantage to scum?

Unvote

Shakerag: Alright, you've abandoned your Persus vote.  Why?

[4maskwolf]

My scum pick right now is Nerjin, for threatening to vote me out of irritation over a single post.  While I can understand his frustration, threatening a vote over a minor nuisance like that is beyond what I would expect from someone.

4maskwolf: An interesting move, but not an impressive one.  What makes scum more likely than town to do what Nerjin did?  Where's the advantage to scum?

I think it is more likely scum than town because the scum don't care who they use their vote on, as long as someone not-them gets lynched, while the town would want to ensure their lynch is a scum.  There isn't a particular advantage to the scum, other than they get to use their vote and seem active.

[TolyK]

@jack I hipfire horribly, so those are more or less random picks. They're the names that came up after more or less re-skimming though the material.

Flabort, who I've already voted, had since taken the front scene.

[Nerjin]

Hello again America. I'm afraid I cannot stay for long. But, a few questions have been asked of your president. As such, your president shall answer. As always.

Nerjin:

America

When are you up for reelection?  Have you reached your term limit?  Who do you suspect of being a terrorist?

What benefit do you find in your politician-speak obfuscating your posts?

In order: After this party, Not yet, I suspect 4mask of being detrimental to America [or town if you prefer]. I do not see my posting style obscuring what I'm saying. There is a little more, yes, but isn't the point of America? Just the right amount, of a little more. My main points are easy to see however, if you're willing to actually read them.

Nerjin "Why aren't your buddies helping you disprove doubt about any post restrictions?"

Well, you see Dear Potato, I do not have buddies. A politician who panders to his audience is insulting both the public and himself. If everyone were to hate me as president I would be proud so long as I was effective. I will admit that I've not been as effective as I'd like. However, so many players make it hard to focus on enough to be effective. I will focus on those I view as communistic terrorists. Namely 4mask. As I said, he does not care. He has stated as much. At best he is useless. At worst he is a detriment. Until I see something else, more harsh that catches my eye, I shall remain firmly on 4mask. However, I don't see why you think I am a communist sympathizer. If you could show me your thought process, I would be more than happy to answer any further questions.j

Now, America, I would like to address 4mask directly:


4mask

How did it come to this?

My scum pick right now is Nerjin, for threatening to vote me out of irritation over a single post.  While I can understand his frustration, threatening a vote over a minor nuisance like that is beyond what I would expect from someone.

4maskwolf: An interesting move, but not an impressive one.  What makes scum more likely than town to do what Nerjin did?  Where's the advantage to scum?

I think it is more likely scum than town because the scum don't care who they use their vote on, as long as someone not-them gets lynched, while the town would want to ensure their lynch is a scum.  There isn't a particular advantage to the scum, other than they get to use their vote and seem active.

You make a few assumptions: The worst being that I am voting you over one post. No. I am actually voting you because of a poor posting style [the wall of text] that wasted everyone's time. If that had been all I would not be voting you. There is, in fact, more. Specifically:

You shouldn't care about me being alive.  Nobody but me knows my alignment, I could be anti-town for all you know.  If you really want to lynch me, feel free.

An American [or townie if you prefer] should NEVER want to die like that. Your death means nothing to you. You don't care enough to even attempt to try and hunt communists [or scum-hunt if you please] to prove yourself town. But there's even more than that:

You're active lurking. You have several posts detailing nothing. Not answering questions. Not asking questions. Only posting.

I'll admit it's not much to go on. However, on day one, it is the strongest argument one can put together.

If you will: Answer me this question: Do you feel you have played to the best of your abilities, and if so, how?

I look forward to hearing your answer.

That is all for now America. Farewell for now.

[Shakerag]

Toaster:

Do you expect to get a third party role from your Shakerag© submissions?

Honestly?  I never know what alignment I'm going to get.  Nor do I really anticipate a certain alignment from my submissions.  My expectations are just for something novel and creative, really.

Do you submit roles with certain kinds of power/alignment expectations yourself?


flabort:

Exactly. If I had Scumbuddies, they'd be helping me with that. Since their not, I don't.

While Toaster beat me to the punch, I feel obligated to say "that's exactly what scum would say".
Also, your first clause isn't logical (as scumbuddies are not obligated to help each other), and your second clause, restated, is "because my scumbuddies are not helping me, therefore they must not exist". 
Smells kind of "begging the question"-ish to me, and it looks like you're admitting that you have unhelpful scumbuddies. 

Shakerag "Why aren't your buddies helping you mislynch me?"

I am noting you dropped the "scum" off of buddies.  Hard to call someone else scum when you know you're the scum, right? 
To directly answer your question:  I'm not knowingly setting up a mislynch, and I furthermore do not have any buddies to my knowledge. 


Jack A T:

Shakerag: Alright, you've abandoned your Persus vote.  Why?

It was just a reaction vote.  As in, I was wanting to see how he'd react to being voted.  Also, found a better location for my vote.

[TolyK]

Damn anti-federalists...

Also, Idaho. Mr. President must know that Idaho is important.

[flabort]

flabort:

Exactly. If I had Scumbuddies, they'd be helping me with that. Since their not, I don't.

While Toaster beat me to the punch, I feel obligated to say "that's exactly what scum would say".
Also, your first clause isn't logical (as scumbuddies are not obligated to help each other), and your second clause, restated, is "because my scumbuddies are not helping me, therefore they must not exist". 
Smells kind of "begging the question"-ish to me, and it looks like you're admitting that you have unhelpful scumbuddies. 

Touche. That is not the vibe I meant to give off, but I don't have scumbuddies, helpful or not.
Actually, I kind of wish I did. I'm pretty good at playing scum, I think, since it just seems easier. "Proving" I'm not scum becomes a simple matter of fabricating evidence; same with "Proving" that I don't have scumbuddies. As town, I actually have to look around and do shit, which takes a whole lot more work.

Shakerag "Why aren't your buddies helping you mislynch me?"

I am noting you dropped the "scum" off of buddies.  Hard to call someone else scum when you know you're the scum, right? 
To directly answer your question:  I'm not knowingly setting up a mislynch, and I furthermore do not have any buddies to my knowledge.

Quicker to type. I did mean "your scumbuddies". But I was hungry and wanted to eat.
Speaking of which, has McDonalds ever given you Four Pies when you asked for Two?

And I'm not knowing setting anything up either. And therein lies my point: I can't prove that you're lying and you can't prove that I'm lying; quite possibly because we're both telling the truth. And I assure you I am telling the truth.

I am most definitely pota-town.

Damn anti-federalists...

Also, Idaho. Mr. President must know that Idaho is important.

Ah, very true. The debt generated by Idaho is very low, making it one of the more profitable states for the country to keep around.

Nerjin It's not that I suspect you of being a sympathiser, as I was proving a point to our dear friend Toaster, and his pal Shakerag. My though process is that you of all people would be the most likely to evade and least likely to answer with a WIFOM'y answer. And even though you obscured your answer with president-talk, I still see a WIFOM in the answer. THEREFOR proving my point that it was the question, and not the answer, that generated the WIFOM, making shakerag the guilty party.

4mask, Nerjin still holds you in suspicion. Who do you suspect? What do you think specifically about Nerjin, Shakerag, and Toaster?

Jack A T Then I shall go read BYOR 7, and glean information and strategy for application here.
As for why so much RVS, I don't feel like the serious accusations being flung around are correct. Not many of them feel like they synergize; most are mutually exclusive. When I start seeing accusations that fit together, that make sense, I'll be out of the RVS phase. Because if no-one agrees on anything, then the town is still divided. Once members start to grow up (out of the ground) and agree with each other, we'll start seeing some progress. One small group working together will probably be scum, one large group working together is to the benefit of the town. With so few accusations that work together, I'm only seeing scattered signs of scum everywhere. So by asking more questions, I draw out more accusations in the hopes that some of them synergize.

[Cheeetar]

Just skimmed through the pages of posts for the questions addressed to me. I'll go back through everything again on Sunday. Apologies if I missed anything.

Eagerly awaiting your opinions on the day so far, Silthuri.

Flabort, I'm not sure this talk of "If I had buddies" is at all useful as a debate if it comes from the person you intend to lynch. By all means, discuss it if somebody accuses you of having scumbuddies in detail - 'If Toaster is my scumbuddy, why was he voting for me before?' and such, but it's just WIFOM if you bring it up as a talking point yourself.

Imp: Nope, not that potato. Though you're getting closer. I did grab my role from a wiki.
Yeah, I tend to think I've voted at the start when I haven't, and tend to forget who I've voted for. Which is why I pay close attention to when vote-counts are posted, usually.
My case on Cheeetar was entirely based on his misinterpretation of Miller, and how dense he was being over the matter. Now that he's changed his mind, I don't have a case. I still suspect him with my gut, but have no case whatsoever to vote him over.
I agree with you opinion that Nerjin's posts should contain more content per RP. I'm sad that you don't enjoy puntatos, but they are my own version of RP.
And that's a good answer. Unvote

Varee I wouldn't say it's bad not to vote, as long as you eventually do; by this point in the day, most players should have voted someone once, but don't necessarily have had to if they've been scum-hunting well. It's the not-asking-questions part that bugs me. I think you should try even if you just ask nonsense.

This unvote and quick re-vote on the target Imp voted for pinged me on the scum-o-meter.

Fake edit: And it seems you've already given up on that vote- did it not gain enough traction? With such a quick abandonment of your previous vote, with what seems a blatant OMGUS (I don't see much reasoning behind your Shakerag vote) I will unvote Jiokuy the idle and vote for you, Flabort.