Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Robsoie]

Ignoring on purpose whole communities like bay12, reddit, cdda own board/discord/whatever because of some reason and deciding to ignore on purpose even documented arguments on the developping platform (github) when inviting to discuss a feature is a really great way to alienate a game user base from its developers.

But whatever floats someone's boat i guess...

[duckman]

He posted here, like, once a month on average, so this is really just him finally getting around to actually saying it instead of waffling around like he'd been doing every time prior.

[Flying Dice]

I’m so glad that https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/pull/24052 got stuck in PR hell, as the idea of a depleting max stanima bar in additon to the rest of the fatiuge mechanics, would be a crazy amount of tediousness and punish the player for going out and doing stuff.

I donfind the quote from Kevin:

Totally fine from a CoC point of view, its your opinion. Having said that, it's not an opinion shared by the project, "avoiding player base complaints" is not a reason to add or not add a feature.

Moderatly disturbing.

How about the quote from this other deluded jerkoff?

Maximum realism, and complexity is the main virtue of this game, and the main reason why many people play and enjoy it.

Fucking hell, no it isn't.

Hiya n9103,  thanks for trying to stem the tide of negativity,  but it seems I'm simply no longer welcome here.

Dda development is barreling along as fast or faster than it ever has before, and there continues to be no end in sight, but bay12forums will no longer have anything to do with it.

This thread is hostile to you predominately because of a) your outright hostile attitude towards everyone who doesn't agree with the awful direction you're trying to push DDA in, and b) your inability to just ban anyone you don't like here.

Turns out that being a tin-pot dictator makes people like you less in places where you can't silence dissent. Shocking.

Not that you really gave a shit about what any of us thought -- you pretty much only posted here to whine at people complaining about your shitty changes to the game.

[AzyWng]

Spoiler: Fairly sizeable list of quotes I dug up by looking through azmodean's most recent posts. (click to show/hide)

Not that you really gave a shit about what any of us thought -- you pretty much only posted here to whine at people complaining about your shitty changes to the game.

A brief check of azmodean's last few posts do appear to only have been on this thread, and have only been defending changes made to the game. Some of their statements suggest that a declaration that this site will "no longer hav[ing] anything to do with [development]" wasn't too far off.

Tl;Dr, I'm making dda for me, and if you like it too, you're welcome to enjoy it. If you want to make a mod and aren't a raging asshole, I'm happy to work with you on it and stay out of your business.

The concept of me being pressured out of the project is laughable, here and /rlg are the only places that are notably toxic, and even if there were widespread toxicity elsewhere, the, worst that would happen is I'd hole up on the forums i own and ignore it

p.s. Step down lol, that's some next level entitlement.

Alarm, alarm. New plant growing get merged right now, expect more keypress. Much more.

I somwtimes wonder If the people who add this kind of stuff actually like doing the same mindless action 50+ times in a row. is their definition of fun watching propmpts fly through the screen? Maybe its their idea of RP?

Farming expanded but not streamlined. /sigh

We cant quite do everything at the same time, it's in progress https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/pull/25181

Cataclysm is a survival game heavily focused on combat. Unreal world is a survival game where it is quite easy and really for the best to just avoid combat entirely. If that's what some people want, then fork the game or make a mod, because that's not what it is.

If you want an action game that doesn't care about being grounded in reality, you're the one that needs to fork or mod, feel free to do so.

The mininuke apparently got nerfed in the name of realism, and they also removed the crafting recipe for it so you can't make them yourself.

I buffed the absolute shit out of the mininuke in the name of realism, but hey, dont let reality get in the way of a good rant.

Protip, a lot of the time when people complain about features, they dont know what they're talking about, you might want to either play yourself or at least actually follow development instead of taking ranting at face value.

Tl;dr I unrepentantly eat babies.
No wait, I listen to feedback and try to find a way to make most people happy.
That doesnt sound right either, just read the thread.

See, the problem with that argument is that you need to actually be making a game.

Someone who can make that argument? Steve Walmsley.

Thanks for playing.

Do you feel that the complaints people are raising are that the game isn't mainstream enough or that it's failing to seek out the lowest common denominator I mean, this is a Dwarf Fortress crowd they don't need every game to be Call of Duty Shoot-a-Man. Nobody's complaining about the game being too experimental or even too difficult, they're saying "tedious" and "busywork."

My point is I'm not making a game for everyone, I'm making a game for me, and people who are looking for the same experience I am.  The fact that a large number of people are not looking for that experience is a *given*, so its nonsensical for me to worry about people who dont want to play the game I'm making.

I'll also confess that I'm perplexed by the logic that their failure means that multiple votes of no confidence being initiated doesn't reflect a serious problem.

Out of tens of thousands of players and hundreds of contributors, a handful cast a vote of no confidence.  Excuse me if I'm unimpressed.

Out of general curiosity (I don't actually play this game, I just love the stories) what is it about the code itself that makes it technically unfit to fork?  Lots of code that would be hard to debug/maintain except by the original coders, who wouldn't be migrating?

I'm not sure what all that was about, there's a lot of conspiracy theory smelling stuff in there, I don't have time to manage a conspiracy.

There's no technical reason dda is hard to fork, the thing that makes it hard to fork is that I'm coordinating a very large number of contributors that are making changes very rapidly, to have a decent chance of a fork succeeding, you'd need to convince the most productive half (or maybe a bit more) of the contributors to defect to your fork, and isolated pockets of griping aside, *people are generally pretty happy with the game*.

Basically each time someone organizes a fork, they're coordinating a vote of no confidence against me, and I haven't lost a vote yet.

Is it a mainstream game? not remotely
Does it follow the usual formula for seeking a lowest common denominator of user to gather as large a user base as possible? nope
Does it clearly have an angle that resonates with people and maintains a solid fanbase, and regularly convert fans to contributors? Yep

I picked quotes for the purpose of indicating that they didn't get along with every single member well and sometimes responded to insults, sarcasm, and rude behavior with insults, sarcasm, and rude behavior of their own.

Also, I'd like to note (and you can confirm this by simply checking the "Show Posts" list on azmodean's profile) that azmodean hasn't been terribly active on Bay12 in general - as they put it, "when I (azmodean) have something meaningful to say".

They seem fairly active on this thread (didn't dig deep enough to see if they posted on any other threads) until about 2015, and then returned in 2017. The attacks on the direction the game was going (and the resulting responses to these attacks) didn't really happen until sometime in 2018, during which azmodean resumed posting.

A number of posts they've made pretty much outright state they don't think this board is going to have much of a meaningful impact on the project. Which I suppose could fall under "rude behavior" since it could be interpreted as saying "you don't matter to me".

I speak about them in the past tense because I'm not even sure this person is even reading this at all. At any rate, they haven't responded (unless they have and I missed it because I do miss things like that from time to time).

Also, I doubt insulting azmodean will make them return. Hell, it's probably a part of why they decided to leave in the first place.

[AzyWng]

So, uh, I went on the Discord (they have a Discord, yeah), and there's this as far as the game's Design Outline goes.

Here's an older one, too, if you want to read through it.

Anyway, here's a set of things from the Discord, in no particular order, some of which may be taken out of context or said sarcastically.

Spoiler: Wrench In The Plan is me, by the way (click to show/hide)

I think he's being sarcastic here. I hope.


Ouch.


At least one person seems to be having fun, even if the wasp does exhibit a bit of video-gamey(ish) behavior.


Ah, ThatOneEagle. Master of tact. And grammar!


He is at least a little bit funny, though, so it's fine.


At least we're still welcome here. Or, at least, I am. Calling the developer a "tin-pot dictator" probably violates the rule of "be kind", though, so, Flying Dice, please make sure you're calm before you post on there.

Link to the Discord server is here. I probably wouldn't say the things that are being said here, though, seeing as how that might be grounds for a ban.

Incidentially, there's a link to Whales Cataclysm (an old version that hasn't been updated since 2013) here if anyone is interested in doing anything with it (which some people have said something along the lines of...)

[Adragis]

Just saying, you seem like you've come in here a little late and are completely out of touch with why the current mood is a thing.

[AzyWng]

I mean, "a little late" and "completely out of touch" describes me on a lot of things, but it's not as though that's stopped other people. Just look at this thread. Particularly some of the more recent posts. And the one that caused a bunch of people to respond, in particular.

But, I guess someone could explain it to me, if they're willing to go to the trouble.

[Flying Dice]

At least we're still welcome here. Or, at least, I am. Calling the developer a "tin-pot dictator" probably violates the rule of "be kind", though, so, Flying Dice, please make sure you're calm before you post on there.

I have no intention of posting with a linkable username anywhere he has mod authority.

And if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and bans contributors for disagreeing like a duck, it's probably a duck.

Also telling that people don't even remember that most of the original DDA project team came from B12. Shows how effectively kevin has co-opted it. I think the "dictator" label is fairly appropriate, between the rabid intolerance of dissent, retroactive group amnesia about people who used to be important, and slapping his name on a group effort. The tin-pot bit comes from it being centered around a decaying spinoff of a one-man roguelike based from a forum with some of the worst internal architecture design I've ever seen.

[King Zultan]

As far as I'm aware cataclysm started out on Bay12, if I remember right the original thread predates the whalesdev forums.

Also some somewhat relevant quotes from Whales.

Realism is secondary to fun and appropriate difficulty.

I have my suspicions that the Cataclysm forums are like 90% B12ers.

[Teneb]

Wasn't there some talk a while back about how Whales was going to restart the project?

[Rince Wind]

AFAIK he was working on Cata2 which was supposed to be more story centric and I think even actual win conditions. But I haven't heard from that in years. Not that I followed it activly, but I would imagine the info would get to this thread somehow.

[King Zultan]

There is a thread for Cataclysm 2, but from looking at the github linked in the thread Cataclysm 2 hasn't been worked on scene 2014, so I think the project is probably dead.

[George_Chickens]

Whales has, very sadly, disappeared from the internet and is uncontactable. It's very likely that he has no interest in restarting Cataclysm 2, as there was a fair bit of drama when he announced the sequel, and afterwards he just seemed to leave.

To be totally fair, he did spur on a lot of the drama through his attitude (only mildly, though), but his concerns and frustration were fully valid IMO.

[ChairmanPoo]

*shrug* a lot of people complain about this Granade guy, and I have to agree that C:DDA is getting shittier as time goes by, but on the other hand (despite this being an open source game) none of the critics have gone on to create their own forks. AFAIK you wouldnt need to roll back to 2013; you could simply download the code as is and go whichever way you want. So I can see his point: as of now despite the polemics there is apparently nobody else with the support or the will to take the helm (which I find curious, as many of the more outspoken critics were involved in development earlier on), so given that it's his work and effort, he calls the shots. I can understand that and empathize to an extent, even if I don't agree with the way he's taking the project.



As far as I'm concerned it's a damn shame that I don't remember at which point I started disliking his addons    I'm guessing around mid 2017 (I could possibly match it with forum data I guess). The last time I played I was doing so with a homebrew mod that allowed me an easier start so that I could have fun exploring the world. Presumably I could do that in the current version, even though it probably wouldn't help with the more tedious stuff in the later builds. On the other hand, IIRC there were several mods that made many of those tedious features strictly opt-in...

[Adragis]

*shrug* a lot of people complain about this Granade guy, and I have to agree that C:DDA is getting shittier as time goes by, but on the other hand (despite this being an open source game) none of the critics have gone on to create their own forks. AFAIK you wouldnt need to roll back to 2013; you could simply download the code as is and go whichever way you want. So I can see his point: as of now despite the polemics there is apparently nobody else with the support or the will to take the helm (which I find curious, as many of the more outspoken critics were involved in development earlier on), so given that it's his work and effort, he calls the shots. I can understand that and empathize to an extent, even if I don't agree with the way he's taking the project.



As far as I'm concerned it's a damn shame that I don't remember at which point I started disliking his addons    I'm guessing around mid 2017 (I could possibly match it with forum data I guess). The last time I played I was doing so with a homebrew mod that allowed me an easier start so that I could have fun exploring the world. Presumably I could do that in the current version, even though it probably wouldn't help with the more tedious stuff in the later builds. On the other hand, IIRC there were several mods that made many of those tedious features strictly opt-in...

Coolthulu made a fork.