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[flabort]

Tiruin Your plan doesn't work; skipping the Jack kills me if you're town part, to the werebear part.

If the Werebear is capable of killing Jack in your scenario, where Jack is targeting you or me, then it is indicative that the werebear is an SK. The Town(/scum) werebear is only a PGO; the GA would die from targeting the werebear, and Jack would remain alive.


As for everything after the point where I was when I made my quick post... I don't see anything that is imperative that I reply to right now that I haven't already given an opinion on.

PPE: Cheeetar: If the Vig is not a Guilty Vig who suicides after killing a towny, then I don't see why they shouldn't use their kill as an inspection. As far as inspections go, I generally have the same early game strategy of checking "game-bafflers", which include lurkers and shakerag.

[Jack A T]

Guys, I think we can pretty easily nail Jack as a SK now. He's killed twice and is not voting for the scum.

If this is an actuality

Tiruin: Again, there's no new content, and no SKs in Supernatural use or are remotely likely to use conventional weapons.  There's no way I could be an SK.

Did you consider not killing anybody either of these nights?

Cheeetar: N1: No.  It's basically a great night for vigkilling.

N2: Yes.  I ended up deciding between no kill (least risk, least reward), killing roo (would have gotten rid of a baffler), and killing Persus (most likely to get rid of scum, I thought).

I do want a response to this, by the way:

flabort feels like tunneling town, not scum:

Posting quickly, working on a bigger post: Unvote.  I do not feel confident in my vote.  Flabort's stubbornness about that case doesn't feel, well, scum.  His case has a manufactured feel, but it...well...I don't think it's scum manufacturing.  I think it's the sort of manufactured feel a case gets when the evidence is based on the conclusion.  Scum manufactured cases tend to be more natural-looking: conclusions supported by evidence (like proper cases), not evidence built on conclusions.  His continuing use of the lens of his conclusion to back his conclusion and his stubbornness about each part of his case doesn't feel like the sort of thing scum would do under pressure like mine, too.

Can anyone going after flabort counter this?

[Tiruin]

non-human creature

That is unbelievably offensive to werebears everywhere.

Eep, EBWOP:
Human creature which is affected my any sort of therianthropy.

Tiruin Your plan doesn't work; skipping the Jack kills me if you're town part, to the werebear part.

If the Werebear is capable of killing Jack in your scenario, where Jack is targeting you or me, then it is indicative that the werebear is an SK. The Town(/scum) werebear is only a PGO; the GA would die from targeting the werebear, and Jack would remain alive.

Well, either/or, we all know they're killers, so that's a lesser priority than the cult (and the cult have to worry about them too).

My plan in brief is based on IN THE LEAST:
NQT/TDS being innocent, whom I believe are on the lowest 'maybe scum' list. [Unless they're together. But that also means we've to know TDS' wincon, which we don't, or whom they need to see live.)
Cheeetar and Jack have to worry about each other, but I believe both are innocent, but that would pretty much leave you, me and Roo (I believe you two may pretty much be cult, but I'm leaning on voting Roo over you because of the justifiability of your Sexton claim, which can't be a cult-converter, to follow up on that fear).

Guys, I think we can pretty easily nail Jack as a SK now. He's killed twice and is not voting for the scum.

If this is an actuality

Tiruin: Again, there's no new content, and no SKs in Supernatural use or are remotely likely to use conventional weapons.  There's no way I could be an SK.

Just giving it the benefit of the doubt. I've never heard of an SK hunter, but from experience M.Hunters are predominantly(?) town.

Also I didn't know that. @orange

I do want a response to this, by the way:

Can anyone going after flabort counter this?

I'm agreeing with it, but I -am- doubtful since I know my alignment right now and see different probability there.

[Jack A T]

Also I didn't know that. @orange

Way back on Day 2, I dug through all the prior Supernaturals to list the historical third parties for a flavour analysis.  Took way too much time and effort.  I have a feeling it will be useful in future games as well, at least.

[Cheeetar]

flabort feels like tunneling town, not scum:

Posting quickly, working on a bigger post: Unvote.  I do not feel confident in my vote.  Flabort's stubbornness about that case doesn't feel, well, scum.  His case has a manufactured feel, but it...well...I don't think it's scum manufacturing.  I think it's the sort of manufactured feel a case gets when the evidence is based on the conclusion.  Scum manufactured cases tend to be more natural-looking: conclusions supported by evidence (like proper cases), not evidence built on conclusions.  His continuing use of the lens of his conclusion to back his conclusion and his stubbornness about each part of his case doesn't feel like the sort of thing scum would do under pressure like mine, too.

Can anyone going after flabort counter this?

Sure- he claimed sexton, not some sorta investigative role. What kinda evidence could he have that would lead him to believe a townie was scum?

[Jack A T]

Sure- he claimed sexton, not some sorta investigative role. What kinda evidence could he have that would lead him to believe a townie was scum?

It's sad that I have to say this, considering how obvious it is, but it's important: townies are, shockingly enough, fallible.  A few misinterpreted points, a gut feeling, or just noticing the scumtells every townie drops, combined with playstyle or personality elements (remember his play in BYOR 13, especially D2?  Remember stuff like this?  This sort of stuff is completely in character for flabort)...

I think that answers your question?

[Cheeetar]

So the reason you're not voting Flabort for being super scummy is that you think he's a bad player, and being scummy is his meta. That answers my question, but it doesn't change my mind about him being scum.

[H4zardZ1]

((Are replacements still needed?))

[Mephansteras]

((Are replacements still needed?))

Yes, roo still needs to be replaced.

[flabort]

So the reason you're not voting Flabort for being super scummy is that you think he's a bad player, and being scummy is his meta. That answers my question, but it doesn't change my mind about him being scum.

He's, uh... more or less correct.
I'm not proud of poor play being my meta and I strive to improve myself, but I think if you're not going to trust me, you should trust Jack.

Gah, sorry Jack that sounds more like buddying than I meant it to. Erg, even this apology; sigh, I'm just going to see myself out.

[Cheeetar]

Mmh. No- not content leaving it at that.

Do you still see me as scum, Flabort? If so, why? If not, why? You certainly seemed incredibly convinced with your post analysis.
Do you still see Tiruin as scum? If so, why? If not, why are you voting for them?

[Cheeetar]

Tiruin: Vote for somebody already. Do you really claim to be so uncertain here and now? The vote is town's only reliable weapon, and I'm not sure you're using it.

[Tiruin]

6/22/2015; Monday. 11:31am, GMT +8.

In which I notice I didn't vote (when I also thought I was waiting on TDS' idea).

Flabort; though tied in case with Roo.

Also counter-my-idea back there: NQT isn't totally innocent [the only innocent is, humorously, not 'town'. That GA.]. I pondered on this and he could also be scum (just cult, but his buddies act while he gets info). Was wondering why I felt something wrong when I was writing my role-list-read.

But he's still down there with TDS in my general reads.

[flabort]

Mmh. No- not content leaving it at that.

Do you still see me as scum, Flabort? If so, why? If not, why? You certainly seemed incredibly convinced with your post analysis.
Do you still see Tiruin as scum? If so, why? If not, why are you voting for them?

Eh... I'm forced to believe otherwise due to overwhelming evidence; the one-in-a-million chance that Roo is/was the werebear doesn't seem very likely now that he's the only one left, so you basically have to be. Which means I was wrong about you fake-claiming, which in turn means I was wrong about you fishing for a fake claim. The questions still seem fishy, but since you can now prove that you weren't fishing, I have to concede that your defense is pretty solid now. So no, I don't still see you as scum (But just in case you are and this bites me in the ass later, I'm going to say I really really wish I had been able to prove it).

Why are you asking if I still suspect Tiruin? Yes, I still suspect Tiruin. I've mentioning bad feelings about the lurkers for half the game (Which I CAN prove), and I'm a stubborn person. You should know that. I also find her most recent post odd; Tiruin almost always sees the good in everyone. Saying that only one person is innocent? Well, I don't remember if that's normal for LATE-GAME Tiruin, but early and mid game and non-mafia-playing Tiruin wouldn't make such a statement. This is not my case on her, but the reason I AM voting her is that pretty much everyone else can be confirmed by each other. Cheeetar, I just conceded that you're who you say you are. I believe Jack about him being the Vig, and doubt that the script that generated this set-up would give the Vig to Scum given the other roles that have flipped so far; it's possible but highly unlikely. TDS as GA is uncontested; I'm confirmed to myself. That leaves Tiruin, NQT, and Roo. Roo is absent and unconfirmable. NQT is a tricky devil when he's not on the same team as you, and I don't entirely believe his Sage claim. Tiruin, it would just make sense for the scum to have a Sexton too; in most cases where the necro and priest didn't die so quickly, it would have given the scum the edge over town by being able to use their own jailor to protect against the necro and counter the priest. However, they both died quickly and by almost-coincidence the cops died quickly too. Have to say, while the possibility for both of us to be town would be possible without knowing everything else the town knows, all evidence points to one sexton being scum, and I know it's not me.

[Cheeetar]

Just an aside- Jack, please vig kill Roo. I may have given you bother over killing the lurkers before, but it'd really help narrow down the potential scum teams if you did kill Roo tonight.