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Author Topic: Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: COBRA!!!  (Read 855053 times)

Harry Baldman

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Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: Arthropoid Martial Arts!
« Reply #5205 on: May 18, 2018, 12:38:51 am »

That is the main complaint about PC centaurs being medium and NPC ones being large.  :P

Yeah, don't really get why they couldn't just make them Large while specifying that they only have a 5-foot reach, since reach seems like the only thing that they would need to think about (and hey, bugbear PCs get extra reach and quasi-Largeness anyway at which point you need to wonder why they even bother specifying quasi-Largeness to begin with). Large size generally seems to have about as many benefits as downsides, kind of like being Small.
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Kagus

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Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: Arthropoid Martial Arts!
« Reply #5206 on: May 18, 2018, 03:24:58 am »

Presumably because not everyone makes centuar-accessible tombs and they want to keep the hallways uncomfortably tight for normal-sized critters, where you'd have to leave any larges outside.

Other than that? ...probably as much reason as any other D&D decision.

Harry Baldman

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Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: Arthropoid Martial Arts!
« Reply #5207 on: May 18, 2018, 07:13:44 am »

Presumably because not everyone makes centuar-accessible tombs and they want to keep the hallways uncomfortably tight for normal-sized critters, where you'd have to leave any larges outside.

Other than that? ...probably as much reason as any other D&D decision.

I feel like it makes sense for centaurs to be horse-Large (2 spaces) rather than ogre-Large (4 spaces) - and hey, having your ass be too huge to fit through the door now and again seems like a pretty good drawback. And it can literally be fixed with Enlarge/Reduce, which is just a second-level spell!
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scriver

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Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: Arthropoid Martial Arts!
« Reply #5208 on: May 18, 2018, 07:14:43 am »

Pony-taur
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wierd

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Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: Arthropoid Martial Arts!
« Reply #5209 on: May 18, 2018, 07:30:13 am »

Toy Centaur.  Just the right size for a Small creature to ride into battle.
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Mephisto

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Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: Arthropoid Martial Arts!
« Reply #5210 on: May 18, 2018, 07:35:44 am »

Did someone say Ponytaur?
« Last Edit: May 18, 2018, 07:48:03 am by Mephisto »
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Trekkin

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Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: Arthropoid Martial Arts!
« Reply #5211 on: May 18, 2018, 01:17:00 pm »

So if PC centaurs are stackable, can they also be looped around so that the centaur at the bottom of the stack rides the centaur at the top of the stack? In the simplest case this would just be one centaur laying upside-down on the back of another, but one could easily imagine great wheels of stacked centaurs rolling along.

It feels like there should be an exploitable infinite loop there.
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Grim Portent

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Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: Arthropoid Martial Arts!
« Reply #5212 on: May 18, 2018, 01:27:09 pm »

No, the mount and rider are in the same space, so you can't have the higher up riders looping through other spaces on a battlemat to circle back down to the bottom.

Sadly the general consensus it that the main benefits to riding a centaur is that a tanky rider can use Mounted Combatant to force attacks aimed at a squishy mount to target the rider instead, and that the centaur can use exotic movement abilities to benefit a rider who otherwise wouldn't have them.

So a paladin or fighter or whatever can ride a centaur wizard or rogue or similar and prevent people attacking them at all, and if the centaur has a fly spell on, or can run over water or up walls like a monk it can do so while ridden.

Otherwise most stuff a PC mount/rider combo can do could be done just as well by two guys on foot.
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Kagus

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Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: Arthropoid Martial Arts!
« Reply #5213 on: May 18, 2018, 02:02:51 pm »

Don't know anything about 5E other than that it apparently has Kendar, but I thought that there at least used to be feats that gave special abilities or buffs to the mount the player is riding on.

...or maybe I'm just mixing it up with Incursion again. Incursion had some great mounted combat feats. Overrun was just ridiculous (every attack the mount makes is given a free trip chance. Combine with a special mount that has a three-attack natural sequence, and nobody gets to stand up).

Grim Portent

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Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: Arthropoid Martial Arts!
« Reply #5214 on: May 18, 2018, 02:12:31 pm »

Don't know anything about 5E other than that it apparently has Kendar, but I thought that there at least used to be feats that gave special abilities or buffs to the mount the player is riding on.

...or maybe I'm just mixing it up with Incursion again. Incursion had some great mounted combat feats. Overrun was just ridiculous (every attack the mount makes is given a free trip chance. Combine with a special mount that has a three-attack natural sequence, and nobody gets to stand up).

In 5e the only feat for riding mounts is Mounted Combatant. It lets the rider force any attacks against the mount to target the rider instead, gives the mount the same effect as Improved Evasion (any attacks that allow dex saving throws, like fireball, do no damage on a success and half damage on a fail) and it gives the rider advantage when attacking unmounted creatures smaller than the mount, which means small or smaller creatures if riding a PCentaur.

The problem with mounts in 5e is that you lose your own actions to make them do anything more than move, and most mounts are worse attackers than their rider. A PCentaur mount doesn't have that problem, but is also a whole PC rather than an expendable NPC and most of the time you'd be better with two separate mounted PCs rather than one PC riding another. Exceptions apply if using Mounted Combatant to keep Centaur spellcasters protected from attack.
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pikachu17

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Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: Arthropoid Martial Arts!
« Reply #5215 on: May 18, 2018, 03:25:56 pm »

If centaurs get a climbing speed, does that mean they can get up walls just fine, without worrying about difficulty with hooves?

Also, You people seem to be forgetting how useful the other features of Mounted Combatant are.
The centaur has Evasion, which is useful, and the tank has advantage on melee weapon attacks on creatures smaller than the centaur, which is handy, even if it rairly comes up without size enlargement.
If the centaur is a 9th level mystic, s/her can use Giant Growth's Giant Form, and have Enlarge cast on her/him as well, giving the tank advantage on any melee attack roll on a non-gargantuan creature.
Give a an 11th level fighter Haste, too, and s/he can roll 16 attack rolls on the first turn, 22 if the centaur uses Mantle of Command effectively.
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Kadzar

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Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: Arthropoid Martial Arts!
« Reply #5216 on: May 18, 2018, 04:07:49 pm »

I think the centaur would work very well with a Rogue rider using mounted combat: rogue always has an ally within 5 ft for sneak attacks, can take damage from attacks directed at centaur and halve it with Uncanny Dodge upon reaching 5th level, from 7th onward both centaur and rider can mostly ignore fireballs.

That last part might work really well if the centaur is a non-Evocation Wizard (so doesn't have the ability to just ignore friendlies) or any other class that can cast Fireball, since they can put one around themselves with almost no danger.
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Kagus

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Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: Arthropoid Martial Arts!
« Reply #5217 on: May 18, 2018, 08:11:15 pm »

So if Mounted Combat redirects attacks onto the rider instead, if you have a centower riding along and you attack the lowest one of the bunch, does the attack get sent to the second in line or does that attack then also get redirected to the one above him again?

Grim Portent

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Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: Arthropoid Martial Arts!
« Reply #5218 on: May 18, 2018, 08:13:45 pm »

It's a can not must scenario, so it can probably go as high up the stack as the stack wants, or it can only go as high as the first because he's not eligible for his rider to force it target him depending on how you interpret the wording.
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There once was a dwarf in a cave,
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Sirus

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Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: Arthropoid Martial Arts!
« Reply #5219 on: May 18, 2018, 08:52:57 pm »

It's a can not must scenario, so it can probably go as high up the stack as the stack wants, or it can only go as high as the first because he's not eligible for his rider to force it target him depending on how you interpret the wording.
Personally, I would rule that the attack can only be re-directed as far as the weapon's reach. A guy with a sword on the ground isn't going to be able to hit the rider at the top of a centower without some serious acrobatics.
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