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[Tiruin]

Third parties are a mixed bag, though they tend to favor scum in some aspects.
SKs, WWs, and Arsonists obviously have it out for everyone most times, and while some of them are less than subtle (mainly due to being listed as a known threat) the truly insidious ones wait until half of town or more is dead.
Then we got roles that win if they can cause town to lose or in some way hinder town, Jesters, Executioners(my most hated enemy) Judges, Witches, etc.

Finally, we have roles which are simultaneously a detriment to town (because they copy themselves onto their victim, erasing previous abilities) and a detriment to Themselves because of their abilitiy usage while other threats are still active. Vampires, cultists (in certain iterations) Goo monsters, etc.

Rarely are neutral parties "Good", or at the very least harmless. Survivors and Amnesiacs Can help town, but at the same time will often favor mafia if town gets to the point where a victory is unlikely.

All in all, third parties are bad unless the 3rd party actively proves they are helping town.

What if I told you I was a third-party in particular, albeit with a non-detrimental wincon in contrast to town (eg Survivor-type), how would you react? :v

It seems more like that you've had much experience with people playing solely towards a rigid role rather than towards the potential they can use as 3rd parties there, as an aside, and this is seeping through your words.

Most likely I would ask for some investigative role to confirm this, or if things are getting desperate due to other parties or a rising mafia majority with no investigative roles, I may go for a lynch.

I am used to playing a semi-random role list with listed possibilities. The role list is known to all players, and the possible roles that may spawn from the random roles are listed as well.
This means that while the timeframe to figure out who is scum and who is not is much smaller, so is the possibility of someone evading detection for more than a few days unless there are no investigatives or strong killing/support roles that can double as such, like the mayor or jailor.

Most likely you'd believe it firsthand, relying on known information to proceed. Alright. Most likely you'd delegate the need of responsibility in the open or would instead go for a lynch because the person would openly claim third-party because of reasons on your part that seem rigid in nature?

Why aim at the one who claims third-party rather than the others who stay relatively silent? What's your contrast between that and someone who is scum and does the same?

This response is really interesting. There's a suitable negative tone into it. There's a lack of saying 'what if this person is a survivor and town is winning', but there is stating things from what one things the town wants.
We're playing in a game where abilities are possible--albeit possibly also inferred as to their quality or range of power from what abilities one personally has. A slight background check into similar games here will give you the idea that there is no actual role list that's given in the OP--however there are roles that you can INFER being present (or a mix of vanilla roles).

You seem to be defensive when beset by unknown variables.

[Dustan Hache]

Three people. You, TBF and FoU. Which is three more people than you've pressured. There are also 10 other players in the game, including you. I've also had a potentially life-altering thing to prepare for today, hence the silence over the weekend. If you're expecting everyone else to put pressure on other people while you slide along with "I don't know what to do 'cause no info" you can expect my vote.

You know your role, and also that there are (likely) 2 concrete scum roles, and possibly a soft 4th role if what you were saying about 3rd party roles making you impotent or whatever is true (PFP and in a car, so bugger looking for the quote) which is more than 1/3 of the players. As you say, it's D1. It's a starting point, otherwise the game would be much less interesting.

You're not going to know anybody's role for sure unless you're an investigator or when they flip - in which case it doesn't matter, 'cause they're dead - so wishing that were the case while doing nothing to try to get a grasp of what they might be is pointless, and makes you look scummy.

Actually, it's not a 4th role that is rendering me useless, it's the lack thereof.
If no roleblockers exist in this game, my role is essentially void of power. That said, there's still the hidden conditions that might trigger, and one of those might cause a roleblock action to appear. Too many variables with not enough information to know if I will actually serve a purpose.

I frankly do not see your so called "pressuring" all too well. All three of us have answered willingly, without you having to vote us up at all.

I have been asking questions, and in one case responding to suspicious activity (yours, at least until I was informed that the day one "Random" votes are actually an attempt to pressure the player.) with some brief pressure, but in all honesty there's nobody that I can truly see aside from yourself that is worthy of suspicion.

Most likely you'd believe it firsthand, relying on known information to proceed. Alright. Most likely you'd delegate the need of responsibility in the open or would instead go for a lynch because the person would openly claim third-party because of reasons on your part that seem rigid in nature?

Why aim at the one who claims third-party rather than the others who stay relatively silent? What's your contrast between that and someone who is scum and does the same?

This response is really interesting. There's a suitable negative tone into it. There's a lack of saying 'what if this person is a survivor and town is winning', but there is stating things from what one things the town wants.
We're playing in a game where abilities are possible--albeit possibly also inferred as to their quality or range of power from what abilities one personally has. A slight background check into similar games here will give you the idea that there is no actual role list that's given in the OP--however there are roles that you can INFER being present (or a mix of vanilla roles).

You seem to be defensive when beset by unknown variables.

If A person openly claims a third party, there is reason for moderate suspicion due to the fact that it could be a scumclaim to deter investigative roles from spending time there. This is especially true if they are in fact scum with some sort of night immunity that could otherwise come off as suspicious otherwise.

If there are silent people, I will tend to target them for lynching over a neutral, but only if the neutral is being more active than the mafia. Silence is a bad thing, regardless of if it's town or scum doing it.

Unknowns are my worst enemy. If I am not a investigation capable role, I will often struggle to identify the mafia at the best of times. More often than not, I will actually mis-identify and go after a powerful townie under those circustances, which causes a chain reaction as I either kill a important townie (followed by myself either by lynch or vigilante suicide) or leave the mafia to run free and cause havoc.

The alternative is I remain inactive, and either end up close to a mafia majority where my abilities will be able to take down or block mafia fairly consistently after the possible suspects have been narrowed, or be killed off while waiting to do so.

Perhaps the worst of all for me is if I am not roleblock capable, kill capable, or investigation capable. If I fall under none of those catagories and get either a protective or a support role, I generally just end up waiting for death or for another townie I can protect. It is torture.

[griffinpup]

Hector

Griffinpup: What would you consider a good RVS question and why?

Not this one  I flip flop on the importance of RVS questions.  But a good question depends on your goal.  A town RVS? Should try to eliminate potential excuses, limit the ground the scum can play on.
TDS

griffinpup, if you were a doctor, how would you decide who to heal?

Everyone: Does your role flavor hint at changes in your role?

1.  Who I thought would be most likely targeted that night.
2.  Nopes.  Did yours?

Griffinpup: You have a day kill that can only be used on day one. Would you use it, and if so, who would you use it on?

I would totally use it, I'd blow up the person that looked scummiest.

TBR:
So... I go camping for one weekend and the world explodes.  Sorry about my lack of activity, nature does that to you.  I should be able to participate, but I haven't been able to read all the pages yet.  Basically what I picked up on was...
TBF:  It seems quite common to toss out a vote in the beginning like Hector did.  Is tossing a vote out at the beginning of the game always scummy.

... and that was all of page one.  I'll be back

[juicebox]

Most likely you'd believe it firsthand, relying on known information to proceed. Alright. Most likely you'd delegate the need of responsibility in the open or would instead go for a lynch because the person would openly claim third-party because of reasons on your part that seem rigid in nature?

Why aim at the one who claims third-party rather than the others who stay relatively silent? What's your contrast between that and someone who is scum and does the same?

This response is really interesting. There's a suitable negative tone into it. There's a lack of saying 'what if this person is a survivor and town is winning', but there is stating things from what one things the town wants.
We're playing in a game where abilities are possible--albeit possibly also inferred as to their quality or range of power from what abilities one personally has. A slight background check into similar games here will give you the idea that there is no actual role list that's given in the OP--however there are roles that you can INFER being present (or a mix of vanilla roles).

You seem to be defensive when beset by unknown variables.

If A person openly claims a third party, there is reason for moderate suspicion due to the fact that it could be a scumclaim to deter investigative roles from spending time there. This is especially true if they are in fact scum with some sort of night immunity that could otherwise come off as suspicious otherwise.

If there are silent people, I will tend to target them for lynching over a neutral, but only if the neutral is being more active than the mafia. Silence is a bad thing, regardless of if it's town or scum doing it.

Unknowns are my worst enemy. If I am not a investigation capable role, I will often struggle to identify the mafia at the best of times. More often than not, I will actually mis-identify and go after a powerful townie under those circustances, which causes a chain reaction as I either kill a important townie (followed by myself either by lynch or vigilante suicide) or leave the mafia to run free and cause havoc.

The alternative is I remain inactive, and either end up close to a mafia majority where my abilities will be able to take down or block mafia fairly consistently after the possible suspects have been narrowed, or be killed off while waiting to do so.

Perhaps the worst of all for me is if I am not roleblock capable, kill capable, or investigation capable. If I fall under none of those catagories and get either a protective or a support role, I generally just end up waiting for death or for another townie I can protect. It is torture.

So what I'm hearing here is that you'd definitely be better off playing a beginner's mafia. Bastard games usually have quite a few unknowns. That's part of the challenge of playing a bastard game. If you can't handle dealing with unknowns, then this is definitely not the type of game for you.

[Dustan Hache]

Juicebox: I didn't say I couldn't handle unknowns, just that they were my worst enemy.

Unfortunately, I am in the worst position that I listed. I hope that someone here got a investigative or semi-investigative role.

[hector13]

Juicebox: I didn't say I couldn't handle unknowns, just that they were my worst enemy.

Unfortunately, I am in the worst position that I listed. I hope that someone here got a investigative or semi-investigative role.

How will you be able to trust anyone that claims such?

[Dustan Hache]

Juicebox: I didn't say I couldn't handle unknowns, just that they were my worst enemy.

Unfortunately, I am in the worst position that I listed. I hope that someone here got a investigative or semi-investigative role.

How will you be able to trust anyone that claims such?

If/when they make a claim as to someone being X role, and that person dies and are discovered to be said role, then we can confirm them as a investigator.
essentially, it hinges on them claiming someone is a role, and the person in question dying or being confirmed by a third townie.

[fillipk]

Juicebox: I didn't say I couldn't handle unknowns, just that they were my worst enemy.

Unfortunately, I am in the worst position that I listed. I hope that someone here got a investigative or semi-investigative role.

How will you be able to trust anyone that claims such?

If/when they make a claim as to someone being X role, and that person dies and are discovered to be said role, then we can confirm them as a investigator.
essentially, it hinges on them claiming someone is a role, and the person in question dying or being confirmed by a third townie.

Or you know the person in question could claim to be said role and the only thing we would have to worry about is double scum trying to confirm each other as townies, but there are ways to play around this.  Not everyone in this game is out to get you.

[TheBiggerFish]

@griffinpup:Yes, I know how RVS works.

[TheDarkStar]

griffinpup, if you were a doctor, how would you decide who to heal?

Everyone: Does your role flavor hint at changes in your role?

1.  Who I thought would be most likely targeted that night.
2.  Nopes.  Did yours?

1. Well yes, that's how a doctor works .
2. It might have, yes. There wasn't a trigger listed, but there are definitely hints about interesting powers.

[griffinpup]

@griffinpup:Yes, I know how RVS works.

*cough *cough answer the question...

TBF:  It seems quite common to toss out a vote in the beginning like Hector did.  Is tossing a vote out at the beginning of the game always scummy.

Dustan:
Where, BEFORE TODAY, did you hint about your role?
What is your role?
What is the benefit of claiming your role?
What is the benefit of soft-claiming your role?

[Dustan Hache]

@griffinpup:Yes, I know how RVS works.

*cough *cough answer the question...

TBF:  It seems quite common to toss out a vote in the beginning like Hector did.  Is tossing a vote out at the beginning of the game always scummy.

Dustan:
Where, BEFORE TODAY, did you hint about your role?
What is your role?
What is the benefit of claiming your role?
What is the benefit of soft-claiming your role?

1: I refuse to answer this question due to the fact that I have repeatedly done so across multiple days with my questions.

2: I refuse to answer this question because I am softclaiming it.

3: The benefits are that I may become less of a target due to my abilities, unless someone possesses a role that I can counter.

4: I may draw the attention of scum, who are still in the dark as to my role and yet may suspect it to be more powerful than I am letting on, thus drawing off an attack or other hostile action that might otherwise be meant for a different townie. Chances are that won't happen, but one can dream.

[fillipk]

griffinpup, if you were a doctor, how would you decide who to heal?

Everyone: Does your role flavor hint at changes in your role?

1.  Who I thought would be most likely targeted that night.
2.  Nopes.  Did yours?

1. Well yes, that's how a doctor works .
2. It might have, yes. There wasn't a trigger listed, but there are definitely hints about interesting powers.

I remember saying I'll answer the question about the role flavor hints after you had so yes my role flavor hints at a power change and I'm pretty sure what the trigger is.

[TheBiggerFish]

@griffinpup:It depends on what the person's doing with it.

[hector13]

@griffinpup:It depends on what the person's doing with it.

What was I doing with it?