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Glorious Arstotzka

17 (16%)

Glorious Moskurg

13 (12.3%)

Ingloriously Didn't Play

76 (71.7%)

Total Members Voted: 106

[Kashyyk]

Cannala seems to be doing competing well in the air considering that's supposed to be our forte, so it pains me to see people of the opinion that we have no chance to compete at sea.

[VoidSlayer]

If we make a magnetic detonation torpedo, will we make a submarine as well?  I feel we should make an early U-Boat knock off first, then work on the magnetic donator once we have a second front to deploy them from.

[Sheb]

We can try both, after all Cannala develloped a gun and a cruiser to go around it in one turn.

[Madman198237]

I like the ATGM. It opens all the right doors for us right now.

(3) UF-ATGM-41 'Saltseeker': evictedSaint, Stabby, Madman198237

[NAV]

I think we should make a large naval wire guided torpedo, and finally revise the archer into an effective torpedo launcher.

If we refuse to play the game we lose. The game is naval.

[evictedSaint]

If the only way to win is to control the naval theatre, then we've lost anyways.  We literally can't catch up unless Cannala lets us, and that's after multiple turns of sea-dedicated research. 

With strong enough ground forces we can successfully land even despite a naval disadvantage, and the ATGM opens up doors to start developing guided missiles that will change the nature of war (especially naval war) in our favor.

[somemildmanneredidiot]

Here's my suggestion. We turtle up this turn. Our 300mm were signficantly effective at keeping them off our shores, and we got a 2 on them. We've been wanting to get more TC since forever.

We can either spend a design to improve the 300mm (Larger? Faster? More Accurate? Por que no los tres?) and a revision to improve our Sea Lift to TC4 or TC5 (or the Reckless to be TC2) or we spend a design on some variety of TC improvement (hyperfocused TC3 air? Transport sub? Mass Drivers? Who knows.) and a revision on the 300mm to give it actual range finding and possible range improvements.

This will give us a more secure defense as it limits the effectiveness of their navy while also allowing us to grab the Oil we need to have Cheap Thunderbirds. And at that point the skies are ours, or at least more strongly contested in our favor.

[Devastator]

Kashyyk: 10kg warhead will be useless against ships.

According to google, it's the same weight as the average 90mm shell, which is what we're already using against them. It's not designed to be used against their battleships (that's what the torps and Aircraft are for), but against their cruisers and aircraft carriers.

There is a wee difference between a weapon that works with explosive power and a weapon that works because it's moving at thousands of feet per second.  10kg warheads are extremely tiny for anti-ship explosive weapons and won't be effective even against effectively unarmored destroyers.  They could kill landing craft, PT boats, and could damage merchantmen, but they're really really tiny for bombs.  Ship killer bombs generally start at 250kg and up.

What you should design is a rocket-armed landing craft for point-of-landing bombardment.  Then you can revise it into a torpedo boat.  I'm betting their ship radar isn't nearly good enough to pick up small plywood boats.  That was iffy with military radars well into the 70s.

[somemildmanneredidiot]

UF-ASA-41 'Overcompensator Mrk II'
The original Overcompensator is partially incomplete and has a few flaws in its set up. This design provides the advanced fire control and rangefinding that the original lacked as well additional bunker space for the steam generators for added security.

If we want to try upscaling it that's an option as I currently expect this to be Easy rated. Or we could try

UFAF-MTA-39 'Maximum Effect'
Sometimes, you just need more. The Maximum Effort is in essence, the Reckless Effort with a larger cargo capacity, larger wings, and more Jet engines. A total of 12 Jet engines. 16? However many need to be shoved onto this monster of a transport plane to get it off the ground. The Jet Engines are also reworked to have better fuel efficiency along with some attempts at new fuel blends. It should be able to easily transport twice as much as the Reckless Effort, if not three times as much.

Edited for Jet Engines.

[Madman198237]

Alrighty, so, we've got a couple options now.

If you vote for the MTA-39, I'm taking your head off. Screw the torture, we'll go right for the decapitation and save ourselves the hearing loss from your pitiful screams.


Anyway. I want ATGM for the design, so have this for a logical revision:

UFS-CV-40c Sea Haul
The Sea Lift is a fine transport, but it appears to be less than ideal as a transport. Fully using a cargo restraint system to store cargo on the massive deck spaces, and an advanced crane system replacing the system that allowed for planes to be hung from the rafters, and removing the sections of the ship used for pilot and aircraft-maintenance crew housing, more cargo can be stored, garnering a minimum of 5 TC for this newly revamped beast.

[VoidSlayer]

UFS-SUB-40c "Hunter"

A torpedo armed submarine meant to act as a short range escort, it is not a total rip off of a German Type VII submarine with plans stolen by our most recent diplomatic exchange to Germany.  This ship is driven by two supercharged diesel electric engines on the surface and two electric motors underwater.  It can fully submerge to a depth of 200m for long enough to engage enemy ships and retreat before surfacing.  It features an active radar system and passive sonar system to allow it to detect enemy ships and three launchers to deliver torpedoes.  It also features a 90mm bumblebee as a naval gun and a AS-AC18 for close air defense.

Basically 1930s tech for a sub, but a good start?  It should at least be able to act as an escort for when we make our long range subs armed with magnetic detonators.  I mean it could also be armed with those...

[somemildmanneredidiot]

Criticisms provided, so here's a new Design.

UFAF-MTA-39a 'Maximum Effect'
Sometimes, you just need more. The Maximum Effort is in essence, the Reckless Effort with a larger cargo capacity, larger wings, and larger engines. A total of 6 massive Jet engines, which are reworked in an attempt at better fuel efficiency along with some experiments with new fuel blends, provide worlds more power to the plane as compared to the old V12 engines. It should be able to easily transport twice as much as the Reckless Effort, if not three times as much.

[Taricus]

An ATGM would be far too complex. Moreover the Cannalans spent the credit this turn; we get a cruiser in our carriers could definitely work to bring down the Cannalan capitals while our cruisers mop up the things like the Khorne.

Also AFAIK we already have magnetic detonators for our torpedoes. Not much we need to improve on those

In response to the Forenian navy's wishes for a screening ship that doesn't die when the enemy gives it a mean look, the Cavalier class is designed to provide a much more solid screen ship that can actually handle combat without sinking. Using a scheme built off of all or nothing armour, the ships armour is heaviest on the citadel and magazines, being tough enough to resist the cannalan 6' shells. The deck is layered in two armour layers; one a a sacrificial layer to set off bombs and a second as splinter protection to keep most of the crew safe from bomb/shell shrapnel. The rest of the ship it still armoured; primarily against 3' cannons to prevent 'anklebiters' sinking the ship. Furthermore, the ship is highly compartmentalised; experience from the archer shows that the two leading causes of a 'ship kill' are flooding and an ammo explosion.

The Armament of the ship is all located within the citadel, the primary armament being eight 'compensator' cannons, downsized from the overcompensator's 300mm to 150mm, in four in turrets arranged into superfiring positions at the front and back of the citadel. Along with this, eight Bumblebee guns are mounted in two-gun dual purpose turrets, positioned to provide optimum anti-air and anti small ship coverage, as well as being retained in the armoured citadel to protect their magazines. Furthermore four quad AC-18 mounts are positioned on the ship to provide close air deterrent. Finally, the ship mounts two triple launchers, proper launchers, of dolphin torpedoes upsized to 53cm, codenamed 'Orca'.

[RAM]

Incompensation
This is a radar upgrade project combined with integration into The Overcompensator.
Priorities:
Phased array radar to rapidly track and identify targets with a single static system.
Timed-detonation chaff shells. This allows the radar and gun to perfectly coordinate their positions and pretarget radar coordinates.
Remote radar operation: Placing a radar operator with the gun crews regardless of the radar's location.
Mechanical computers: Allow the gun to lock upon reaching a specified bearing and elevation. Quickly generate predicted bearing and distance after shell flight time+n when provided with two bearings, distances, and times. Allow radar operators to quickly get a bearing and distance from a location, bearing, and distance provided by a coded signal from another radar position.
Not exceeding what is currently cheap
Battery supplies to maintain operation after power is lost.
Cavity magnetron: In case we roll stupid-good?

Archer pattern S.T. "Narwhal Ranger!"
A betighted teenager with attitude who fights evil with their massive horn and enormous robots.
An "Archer" with a new armament, expeciall a torpedo design.
In place of the covered turrets iit has enlarged SARUKH rockets with HEATheads stolen from the AS-RPG28 A design.
The torpedoes are adjusted to a much larger standard and accompanied by a control room equipped for direct communication with a radar or aerial spotter and a chart for tracking the position of targets and the torpedo, with assistants keeping the chart accurate. Each side of the vessel has only a single torpedo launcher which is level with the deck and additional torpedoes stored underneath, elevated by lifting mechanism similar to that used by our carriers.
The torpedo:
UF-TD-1941 "Narwhal"
This is the next step in Torpedo technology, using all the knowledge of the dolphin plus more.
This torpedo weights 2 tons and uses a wet-heater propulsion. Being made for naval use, it has a considerably longer range than its aerial counterpart(ideally 20-30 kilometres), while still having space for a larger warhead.
The warhead itself still employs the magnetic detonator that made the dolphin fearsome.
The main improvement, however, is the wire guidance system. A wire, deployed from a spool, allows to send signals to a rudimentary guidance systems which makes the torpedo remotely steerable.


Ana-bomb2000-1941-foo "Large Rock" Anti-radar missile
This 2 tonne bomb comes standard with a cart that acts as ironically-named landing gear for a HAFB to carry one of these monsters under its fuselage when taking off. The landing gear is left behind when the plane leaves ground to prevent the scaffolding from adding to the aerodynamic issues... The bomb is rocket-propelled  to stabilise its flight-path and comes with three large radar receiver fins at the front that that send a signal to its tail-positioned control system. The control system uses signals from the radar recievers to magnetically direct a steering lever, the first signal pulling it to one side and the later signals correcting it, along with a self-correcting-pressure system to centre its flight when on target. This causes it to veer towards, and into, radar transmitters... Its warhead consists of a solid armourpircing cap and a large volume of high-explosives behind that. It is hoped that this will inspire cowardly Cannalan Crews to Cancel their sCanners when they spot aircraft coming. Or kill them all and salt the ground upon which they stood...

If pressed, a plane with one of thses is also capable of manually steering the device with their plane and even utilising its supply of rocker-propellant. Obviously it is easy to bail out of a screaming rocket death trap and any great Forenian heroes who perish when utilising this tactic would be posthumously celebrated...

0 "Narwhal" guided torpedo:
(3) UF-ATGM-41 'Saltseeker': evictedSaint, Stabby, Madman198237
0 Golden Salamander AFV:
0 Peregrine CAS with rockets:
0 Ranger improved escort destroyers with rockets:
0 Proximity fuse for artillery:
0 Overcompensator Mrk II coastal defence:
0 Maximum Effect aerial transport:
0 Sea Haul naval transport:
0 "Hunter" unoriginally named submarine:
0 Cavalier Class' Cruiser:
0 Incompensation upgraded coatsal defence targeting and radar:
0 "Narwhal Ranger!" escort destroyer with rockets and bighuge torpedoes:
0 "Large Rock" Anti-radar bomb:

[10ebbor10]

 

0 "Narwhal" guided torpedo:
(3) UF-ATGM-41 'Saltseeker': evictedSaint, Stabby, Madman198237
0 Golden Salamander AFV:
0 Peregrine CAS with rockets:
0 Ranger improved escort destroyers with rockets:
1 Proximity fuse: 10ebbor10
0 Overcompensator Mrk II coastal defence:
0 Maximum Effect aerial transport:
0 Sea Haul naval transport:
0 "Hunter" unoriginally named submarine:
0 Cavalier Class' Cruiser:
0 Incompensation upgraded coatsal defence targeting and radar:
0 "Narwhal Ranger!" escort destroyer with rockets and bighuge torpedoes:
0 "Large Rock" Anti-radar bomb: