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[milo christiansen]

I can not, no way, no how, support a hold in place tactic. That would be so easy to defeat it isn't even funny. We need to advance to win, if not this turn than as soon as reinforcements land. The tactic should be ready and waiting so if it goes wrong we can fix it next turn before we really need it.

Holding in place and hoping they kill themselves on out guns is really, really, stupid. They may do it one turn, but after that they will do something else.

Also, you cannot win if you do not advance.

Ninja:
Attack from the rear? That could work if properly coordinated... One issue, it will probably only work once.

[10ebbor10]

Static fortifications have been used and have been effective for millenia. I have no idea why you think that would suddenly change.

Fact of the matter is that all the equipment we have is defensive.

PLACE is defensive, BLOCK is defensive. Both are ineffective when attacking, and forcing them to attack will cause our force to be crushed.

[Jilladilla]

even when we reinforce we will probably need a cautious advance tactic of some sort. Their baiting ha sthe potential to be very costly.

I wouldn't say potential, it's already proven its deadliness, that's why we're hunkering down at the moment.

Still, we aren't going to win if we simply remain hunkered down forever ebbor, even if your tactic goes flawlessly, what happens when they decide to mimic us and just stop attacking?

And besides, we have Anti-Flanking for dealing with flankers, and our designated squad for that is assigned a BLOCK and a PLACE, remember? They did fairly well when that was Kasgyr's current tactic at trying to best our PLACE.

As for baiting, that is why my current iteration of Cautious Advance has the 'soldiers will be absolutely forbidden to chase down fleeing enemies, and stay behind the defensive line' line, if they can't bait us out of our fortifications, then we shouldn't be experiencing losses too different than we are currently.

[milo christiansen]

To win we need to take and hold ground. Fortifications hold, they do not take.

[10ebbor10]

To win, we need to avoid being pushed back too.

That is far more likely than us pushing them back.

[Jilladilla]

Alright, write up for an alternative for 'Cautious Advance'.

Tactic: Constant Fortification
Kasgyr's cowardly tactics are designed to pull us away from our fortifications, and they are unable to breach our defenses, so the answer is obvious: We constantly build new fortifications, just ahead of our line!

With this tactic our soldiers will maintain a defensive line, however, whenever they are not being attacked, they will build a new line a little bit ahead of the current one, and when it is built up enough it becomes the new primary defensive line and all significant defensive assets (PLACEs and whatnot) are moved up to it, and the process begins anew, with the old line being recycled for materials when it becomes necessary. Due to the constant building of new fortifications, soldiers on Anti-Flanking will obviously be able to keep pace with the front line while maintaining constant coverage of the flanks. In addition, soldiers will be absolutely forbidden to chase down fleeing enemies, and to stay behind the fortifications; to only go out in front of them if it is to build new ones.

Inch by inch, foot by foot, yard by yard we will make an unstoppable, if very slow, assault on Kasgyr's forces. Even if it would only be safe to build a new line 10 yards in front of the current one then by the Bureaucracy we will build a new line 10 yards in front of the current one! There will be a point where they will have nowhere left to run but our unbreakable defensive line.
If we go with this, I recommend building a lot of BLOCKs... I think it'll need them... Good thing they're just wood huh?

[milo christiansen]

Sounds like exactly what we need.

[10ebbor10]

Let's look at what is actually killing our forces.

The good news is that the Kasgyrites are retreating, the bad news is that they're making it hurt. Instead of pulling back cleanly as Wreth did, they're making periodic fallbacks where they can fire a surprise barrage of heavy crossbow bolts before falling back again. They no longer make runs against our barricades, and instead wait for us to begin moving our mobile cover before shooting the people who emerge. Our PLACE is similarly less useful, as we seldom get a chance to deploy it before they've vanished again. A few shots, made either in anticipation or  frustration, are able to fry a handful of Kasgyre's marines, but it's a pittance compared to the Wrethan soldiers cut down by Kasgyrite snipers.

The tactic above doesn't stop that. Our troops would simply get sniped while building the fortifications. After all, they'd start building a new line when not being attacked, and will then blunder into an ambush..

We face 3 issues :
- Ambushes
- Baiting
- Long range attack

Building forts solves one but leaves a massive vulnerability to the two others.

I prefer Cautious advance. It's still bad because BLOCK's arent mobile and PLACE isn't mobile enough, but at least it's not asking for our troops to be ambushed.

[Jilladilla]

That was when our only barricades was the ones on the flanks ebbor, although I will edit the tactic with what I initially intended but left out for some reason I can't remember in my sleep deprived state, that the new line will be constructed however far the commanders deem to be safe. If that means we can only safely build a new line ten yards in front of our old one then by Draignean we will build a new line ten yards in front of our old one!

Besides, what exactly do you propose that wouldn't cause us to, in your opinion, immediately get outflanked/sniped to death that isn't capable of being countered by Kasgyr simply saying 'Stop attacking for now okay troops?', something they wouldn't even need to spend any dice on.

We aren't turning the numbers around in the reasonable future, your killzone would help with that for all of one turn, if even that, due to them only using small probing strikes to bait us, not hitting us with everyone they have and then bolting, the idiot ball might be a thing but our troops aren't actively suicidal... Like you said, all of our good equipment that lets us fight their superior numbers is defensively oriented, and we're too busy trying to secure the air to focus on a ground design, so the logical thing is to make a tactic that would let us push while maintaining our defensive edge.

I don't expect Constant Fortification to do much in the way of damage at all, not until we push them up against a wall, or they make a major push. But it would maintain a constant, solid defensive line. One that'd slowly inch its way to them.

[NUKE9.13]

PLACE Selectification: The PLACE was designed to move, deploy, and fire, but never at the same time. In hindsight, perhaps that was an error. Fortunately, fixing this is relatively simple- we replace the PLACE's micro core crystal with an Itshana Select micro core crystal. This will provide nearly double the power, allowing us to operate the trim and cannon simultaneously. Since aether cannons have no appreciable recoil, there should be no issues with this.
Since we're just swapping out one crystal for another, slightly better crystal, it may even be possible to provide 'upgrade packages' to PLACEs that have been deployed already.

[10ebbor10]

That was when our only barricades was the ones on the flanks ebbor, although I will edit the tactic with what I initially intended but left out for some reason I can't remember in my sleep deprived state, that the new line will be constructed however far the commanders deem to be safe. If that means we can only safely build a new line ten yards in front of our old one then by Draignean we will build a new line ten yards in front of our old one!

The enemy outranges us with standard crossbows. They were sniping us the moment we moved. We can not use PLACE while our troops are in the line of fire.

Hence, the only safe place would be behind the current fortifications.

Besides, what exactly do you propose that wouldn't cause us to, in your opinion, immediately get outflanked/sniped to death that isn't capable of being countered by Kasgyr simply saying 'Stop attacking for now okay troops?', something they wouldn't even need to spend any dice on

.

What's the issue with stopping all and any Kasgyre advance? I consider that success.

We aren't turning the numbers around in the reasonable future, your killzone would help with that for all of one turn, if even that, due to them only using small probing strikes to bait us, not hitting us with everyone they have and then bolting, the idiot ball might be a thing but our troops aren't actively suicidal... Like you said, all of our good equipment that lets us fight their superior numbers is defensively oriented, and we're too busy trying to secure the air to focus on a ground design, so the logical thing is to make a tactic that would let us push while maintaining our defensive edge.

Killzone would help as long as we're not ready to attack. That means so long as we don't have mobile PLACE/ numerical superiority.
]

[milo christiansen]

Revision #1:
B&Z Revisited: (1) Milo

Revision #2:
Cautious Advance: (1) Milo
Constant Fortification:

Revision #3:
PLACE Skids:
PLACE Select Core:
Name the winner "MOVE PLACE": (1) Milo

[Madman198237]

MOVE PLACE
Mobility Operations Vehicle, Entrenched; Portable Light Aether Cannon Emplacement model.
Using the BLOCK system, we install a pair of skids on the base of a the PLACE, in the field. This allows for mobility in firing setup, in an incredibly simple way, though we do not expect to make terribly much forwards progress at a time with the skids.

Revision #1:
B&Z Revisited: (2) Milo, Madman

Revision #2:
Cautious Advance: (1) Milo
Constant Fortification: (1) Madman

Revision #3:
PLACE Skids: (1) Madman
PLACE Select Core:
Name the winner "MOVE PLACE": (1) Milo

[Jilladilla]

Revision #1:
B&Z Revisited: (3) Milo, Madman, Jilladilla

Revision #2:
Cautious Advance: (1) Milo
Constant Fortification: (2) Madman, Jilladilla
Killzone:

Revision #3:
PLACE Skids: (1) Madman
PLACE Select Core:
Name the winner "MOVE PLACE": (1) Milo

[10ebbor10]

Revision #1:
B&Z Revisited: (3) Milo, Madman, Jilladilla

Revision #2:
Cautious Advance: (2) Milo, 10ebbor10
Constant Fortification: (2) Madman, Jilladilla
Killzone: (1) 10ebbor10

Revision #3:
PLACE Skids: (1) Madman
PLACE Select Core: (1) 10ebbor10
Name the winner "MOVE PLACE": (1) Milo
Keep revision name (1) : 10ebbor10