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[GoblinCookie]

What do you think about adding oppressive systems of government? Because one user, GoblinCookie is concerned (read: causing a moral panic) about the depiction of oppressive governments.

Can you edit that to remove personal details, this is not a place to engage in personal attacks.

[KittyTac]

What do you think about adding oppressive systems of government? Because one user, GoblinCookie is concerned (read: causing a moral panic) about the depiction of oppressive governments.

Can you edit that to remove personal details, this is not a place to engage in personal attacks.

Fine. You know my opinion of you.

[iceball3]

Do you think you can budget for a dust mask or respirator of some kind? It sounds like the air has been rough on you!

[FantasticDorf]

What do you think about adding oppressive systems of government?

Dwarves already are authoritarian by principle, many such crimes in the dwarven kingdom are delivered upon much more severe punished but be more level headed when considering dwarves can live out 100 year sentences & the time period, comparative with real life contemporary law & justice its harsh & and the own player input with the judiciary screen put the player in charge of delivering absolute justice.

I think to achieve such a effect it'd have to co-inside with some code changes like [RULER_JUDGEMENT] for a real flexible despotic take on how to deal with specific crimes akin to Dwarven Pyongyang with singular decisions defined by rule of whoever is the most senior on site.

((besides the fact dwarf fortress guards are infamous for lethally duffing up even minor offenders anyway))

Do you think you can budget for a dust mask or respirator of some kind? It sounds like the air has been rough on you!

I dont count myself a expert, but with costs of finding a nice piece of kit with eye-guards & a effective respirator system and the actual individual filtration pockets to attach it might be a slightly expensive investment compared to shoving wet towels between the cracks between windows and investing in AC but that's my opinion and i have no personal scope of the problem Toady is facing.

A simple mouthpiece one and some scuba goggles could substitute though from the nearest Home Depot or whatever's in range to keep it out of your eyes & mouth.

[Death Dragon]

What do you think about adding oppressive systems of government?

Do you ask specifically about slavery or something else? As FantasticDorf said, the current dwarf government imprisons and beats people who don't submit to the demands of nobles and (until economy is finally back) only pays people in the form of food and some random crafts that are lying around, which I guess can basically be described as slavery.

Maybe with the new villain system we will be able to randomly accuse people of being criminals because of the spy stuff.

[GoblinCookie]

Dwarves already are authoritarian by principle, many such crimes in the dwarven kingdom are delivered upon much more severe punished but be more level headed when considering dwarves can live out 100 year sentences & the time period, comparative with real life contemporary law & justice its harsh & and the own player input with the judiciary screen put the player in charge of delivering absolute justice.

True, but however harsh the system is it is never-the-less entirely just and fair.  Nobody is ever is forced to commit crimes out of desperation due to poverty and the like.  KittyTac's question does fall down generally on the subjectivity of oppression however. 

[Demonic Gophers]

True, but however harsh the system is it is never-the-less entirely just and fair.  Nobody is ever is forced to commit crimes out of desperation due to poverty and the like.  KittyTac's question does fall down generally on the subjectivity of oppression however.

-Noble mandates, say, earrings.
-Player forgets or refuses to order construction of earrings.
-Random hauler who immigrated with novice stonecrafter gets thrown in jail for failing to make earrings that were never ordered in a workshop that hasn't been built.
Entirely just and fair!  But it's true that economic oppression is largely nonexistent, with all production currently owned by the state and distributed freely to all residents.

[KittyTac]

True, but however harsh the system is it is never-the-less entirely just and fair.  Nobody is ever is forced to commit crimes out of desperation due to poverty and the like.  KittyTac's question does fall down generally on the subjectivity of oppression however.

-Noble mandates, say, earrings.
-Player forgets or refuses to order construction of earrings.
-Random hauler who immigrated with novice stonecrafter gets thrown in jail for failing to make earrings that were never ordered in a workshop that hasn't been built.
Entirely just and fair!  But it's true that economic oppression is largely nonexistent, with all production currently owned by the state and distributed freely to all residents.

It might not always stay that way. Hence my question.

[GoblinCookie]

Do you ask specifically about slavery or something else? As FantasticDorf said, the current dwarf government imprisons and beats people who don't submit to the demands of nobles and (until economy is finally back) only pays people in the form of food and some random crafts that are lying around, which I guess can basically be described as slavery.

Maybe with the new villain system we will be able to randomly accuse people of being criminals because of the spy stuff.

The latter situation as regards payment is basically utopia rather than oppression, that is pretty much how things ought to work in real-life.  The former is the price the dwarves must regrettably pay to live in utopia, hence making it not-exactly utopia I suppose.  But then again, compared to real-life systems it is a pretty good life, unless the player decides otherwise......

[Dozebôm Lolumzalìs]

Edit: removed political derail

[GoblinCookie]

Dwarves have very little freedom. I would not consider that utopia. "Dictator which can be benevolent" isn't utopia-by-default with the possibility of failure - that's a slanted perspective, and you could just as easily call it dystopia-by-default.

They have the freedom to sit around all day and socialise, all work is technically voluntery except the noble's mandates as discussed. 

Which goes to prove my point about how difficult answering KittyTac's question would be for any dev.  It's utopia-by-default by my perspective since it requires the dictator to go out of his way to make things miserable, systems involving money are dystopia-by-default since they require a government to go out of their way to make this less miserable than it is their nature to be.

[Tinnucorch]

Please, don't make this another discussion about what characterizes government types. This is not the place for it.

[ZM5]

Not a thread for "how this/that should work in real life" either, so I think me and a lot of other people would appreciate if you could keep your personal opinions on that out of this thread before it gets derailed due to pointless discussions where noone wins yet again, GC.

[FantasticDorf]

Dwarves have very little freedom. I would not consider that utopia. "Dictator which can be benevolent" isn't utopia-by-default with the possibility of failure - that's a slanted perspective, and you could just as easily call it dystopia-by-default.

Like their literary counterparts, Greedy dwarves squirrel away vast sums of wealth to live in hedonistic pokey holes underground so freedom is the least of their worries.

Not a thread for "how this/that should work in real life" either, so I think me and a lot of other people would appreciate if you could keep your personal opinions on that out of this thread before it gets derailed due to pointless discussions where noone wins yet again, GC.

Here here

[Dozebôm Lolumzalìs]

I'll stay out of politics, as that would be a derail. Game mechanics, however, may barely fit. Possibly. I think that's meant more for "we actually already have that mechanic" than "you're wrong about your analysis of that mechanic".

Dwarves do not, in practice, sit around all day socializing. If ordered to work, they will work to the point of exhaustion and depression. Occasionally they will take time off - if the player has designated places to take time off.

Dwarf Fortress is neither a utopia nor a dystopia without player input. It is starvation or death to invaders, whichever comes first. There is no default, neutral fortress which players modify as they see fit.

(Actually, if the player did nothing besides unpause when the game paused and escaped out of the liaison dialog, what would kill the fortress first? With the reimplementation of more meaningful stress, it's possible the fortress could spend enough time starving/injured but not dead that the dwarves would die to angry brawls before they starved.)