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[therahedwig]

Goblincookie, you're skipping so many steps there it sounds like you have read the source code. Because, you know, money does actually exist in adventure mode, there's no telling if the site generator doesn't place that money on the person of the embezzler until we see it in action

Japa, I think the issue with the economy is more or less that entities aren't good at updating their available resources, so the kind of changes in those resources that are caused by trade(like a fort exporting a billion mugs to the mountain homes) aren't able to be processed by the entity(dwarven caravans and traders should now have hundreds upon hundreds of mugs available...).

Embezzlement might however be able to happen without interacting with that system. If a human civ has 5 million coins, and a human in that civ has a budget of 100, embezzles 30, then the human civ doesn't care, there's still 5 million coins in the civ. Similarly, if your bookkeeper or manager is corrupt, and your clothier is churning out socks, manages to make masterwork pair, then there's a good chance your bookkeeper is -mysteriously- able to aquire those despite all odds, and it would not have to interfere with the resources available to the fort. So the abuse of power is possible to be there without worrying about the economic side effects (Though, having economic side effects might make it a little bit more Fun to the player to have a corrupt bookkeeper).

This would however not really work over different entities(because, they can't really update their resources, right?), so maybe we won't see it in play at all beyond a generic notion of 'so-and-so did this in the past, and now someone can blackmail them'. Gambling might have a similar issue, in that it would very much need to happen over different entities(the fort government and the entities that the tavern visitors are part of).

Unless I am completely wrong about the blocking issue of economy and the problem has only been stacking of currency all along :p

EDIT: Oh man, can we nickname the next release the melodrama release? "Urist, why did you give that Goblin our artifact axe?" "I couldn't help it, he was going to reveal that I embezzled a masterwork plump helmet roast and had an affair with the Queen!"

EDIT2: I am going through all the FotF threads to check what else was up with the economy. One of the other major things beyond stockpiles and stacking is that civs aren't smart enough to demand anything. That is, they don't really understand what they consume. I'll make a separate thread with all the quotes, because 'wan economy???' seems to be one of the most common questions.

EDIT3: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=172681.0

[Random_Dragon]

Dwarven communism will likely remain for a good while. Embezzlement and such can likely be handle in abstract even without a fully fleshed out economic system. See, for example, the ability to demand tribute/homage in adventure mode if you're a conqueror bullying other towns (which doesn't seem to have any immediate material benefit last I checked), and the same in fort mode (which does).

[Death Dragon]

Are there any corrupt activities happening after worldgen? If it only happens during worldgen, does that mean you'll eventually run out of things to blackmail people with in the world?

I try to follow development as close as possible, but think I've missed some major news. What is this Big Wait everyone keeps talking about? And when is supossed to happen?

We're currently in the medium wait for the big wait.

[Real_bang]

From your latest devlog you said that human became chief chef of the entire kingdom. Does that mean we can find him in some special place like royal kitchen actually doing his job or for now this role will be a filler for future law/economy arc?
Also does that mean that our forts will have more barony titles like the one above?

[Eric Blank]

1)You mentioned gambling problems. What are dwarves actually gambling on? Can they gamble on the outcomes of WG festivities/tournaments? Or is it just abstract board/card games for now?
2) With business sabotage, is that something that can take place in fort mode by the time of this release as well? Will we have dwarves arranging unfortunate accidents for rivals? Could jealous blacksmiths try to ensure the magma forges ruin the creations/lives of the other smith or "accidentally" drop a masterwork under a drawbridge/into magma?
3) Could a greedy broker in my own fort start trying to hide my nice trade goods in his cabinets? If so, would a villainous conspirator that knew approach him and threaten blackmail? Say, could an adventurer try to use him to steal an artifact? If i found out about his secret stache of goods without a dwarf reporting him, how will i go about indicting him legally? Get the guard captain stationed in his room, or deconstruct his container, and hope they discover it? I can always throw him under a drawbridge, but thats doesnt sound like quite as much fun suddenly.
4) What all will pseudo-guildmasters be doing in fort mode? Its a noble position ive modded in in the past for the heck of it, but they never served a purpose anyway, and as we arent going so far as having proper guilds, i dont see them really doing anything nobles cant already do. Could they, for instance, meet with unhappy workers like the mayor/expedition leaders do?
5) in what way will temple profaning be linked to this new framework? I dont get it, will dwarves with villainous personalities decide they want to profane the temple to become vampires? Or will they be more likely to by accident because of their personality, and good folks less so?
5b) On the flipside of that, its always been the case that only a few deities ever have temples in the world, so the deities who have one are doing all the cursing. Will other deities get small shrines or otherwise a chance to curse people anytime soon?

[Shonai_Dweller]

Are there any corrupt activities happening after worldgen? If it only happens during worldgen, does that mean you'll eventually run out of things to blackmail people with in the world?

Worldgen doesn't stop, the world keeps going on in the background while you play. It's kind of the point.

Of course there are some things that don't seem to work after initial worldgen, like artifact making (besides in player forts)  so if that's what you meant (will corrupt activities stop after initial worldgen?), then, yeah, I'd like to know that too.

[PatrikLundell]

@Eric Blank: 5a: I'd assume the villain is targeting the temple because of a grudge or whatever against that church/temple. A random act of vandalism isn't exactly a villainous plot, so I'd expect the villain to have others do the profaning for them (and only some gods curse profaners, but a potential issue would be that the world suddenly got a whole lot of vampires/weres as the result of a villainous plot aimed at the church (although it would be cool if there was a plot within the plot, so the outward appearance is to target the church, but the actual plot would be to generate vampires/weres for a doubly hidden purpose)).

[Death Dragon]

Of course there are some things that don't seem to work after initial worldgen, like artifact making (besides in player forts)  so if that's what you meant (will corrupt activities stop after initial worldgen?), then, yeah, I'd like to know that too.

Yeah, with worldgen I meant "initial worldgen".

5) in what way will temple profaning be linked to this new framework? I dont get it, will dwarves with villainous personalities decide they want to profane the temple to become vampires? Or will they be more likely to by accident because of their personality, and good folks less so?

I assume he meant the rivalry framework, so followers of one god might profane the temple of some other god they don't like?

[George_Chickens]

One of your talks that mentioned Shadow of Mordor got me wondering. Have there been any modern games which have inspired you to add certain things to Dwarf Fortress, or to modify a feature based on them?

[Fatace]

[Adventure Mode related] With the next update, it seems like you will implement a lot more various types of quests other than "criminal" and "Bandit" quests. Do you have plans on revisiting on how players ask info on various quests? Seems a bit tedious when having to spam through various dialogs to get info on each set of beast, criminal, bandit, ect... location.. One world took me about 15 minutes to go through them all.. Could the idea of Notice boards or Bounty Boards be added in place of this? Such as bounty boards for beasts and bandits in certain builders or taverns, or notice board, wanted signs in the lord/lady castle area? So the player could just walk up to it and obtain the knowledge of the locals of multiple quests?

[Mediterraneo]

Some months ago, I asked about prisoner management, and alternatives with intelligent captives.

Is there anything on the villain arc related to kidnapping, blackmail with captives or asking for ransom? Like asking money to someone rich, a job as guard to a captain of the guards, to start a war on your enemies to a general, king or diplomat, things like that?

Is there anything 'villainous' that can be plotted during a fortress mode game? As opposed to something you should 'just' be aware of and try to prevent?

Thanks!

[therahedwig]

Fatace, don't you think the issue with the troubles isn't also that a lot of them aren't 'local'? When I ask for troubles a lot of them are across the world(Which makes 'I don't know, and I don't know anybody who could tell you' pretty infuriating too), with the exception of asking for troubles on islands.

[Inarius]

I agree with therahedwig.

I think we could gain a lot of gaming value here, if NPC could *not* give information from things they don't know anything about - and don't even know anybody who could tell you, when we ask them about troubles (maybe just asking them about gossips could have them tell us about it)

[therahedwig]

Or, at the very least ask them 'anything local?'. I can imagine in a world where for some bizare reason there's only one interesting thing and it's happening on the other side of the map, you'd want to be able to annoy the npcs for all the rumours they know.

That reminds me...

Is there such a thing as false rumours? I know that NPCs can technically lie from previous devlogs, but I don't remember if they lied about rumours

[FantasticDorf]

Or, at the very least ask them 'anything local?'. I can imagine in a world where for some bizare reason there's only one interesting thing and it's happening on the other side of the map, you'd want to be able to annoy the npcs for all the rumours they know.

That reminds me...

Is there such a thing as false rumours? I know that NPCs can technically lie from previous devlogs, but I don't remember if they lied about rumours

There are outdated rumors certainly, of which are not true 'anymore' unless the player purposefully spreads misinformation. We'll have to see whether villians can utilise this to act as bait for people of interest, going with promises of a forgotten artifact and instead finding a gang of assassins ambush you.