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[randomgenericusername]

(By the way, I think it's obvious that IcyTea was killed by Maximum Spin's daykill.)

Why's this obvious? Because Shakerag reported both kills at the same time?

Also, I wanna hear this case of yours.

It's obvious since he was both mafia and had a daykill, and if I was mafia in his situation I would have use it too. He was getting votes, and IcyTeam31 was in the middle of building a case against him, so he probably decided to use it now before it was too late. The few times I've played with IcyTea, he seems to have a strong town game even when he's not part of it, so it would help scum to get rid of him early.

notquitethere

Scum tend to be more cautious players, right?

Ye-e-ess... but town's got no call to be throwing hammers around either, and making statements like that is just asking for "But that's what they want us to think!" logic.

randomgenericusername

If there's a higher chance of having something like a paranoid cop instead of a nornal one, then scum would have argued about the possibility of it being just a wrong report. But instead, NQT and Deus Asmoth both jumped in a bandwagon against him almost immediately, which was what probably resulted on Macimum Spin's death. I just doubt scum would vote one of their scumbuddies instead of even trying to defend him.

Tric's claiming Nosy Neighbor, not Cop. From what I'm hearing, there is no insanity modifier on that particular role. It's possible scum could back up Max's "I never got nosed!" assertion, but increasingly risky for increasingly less reward. Why bother?

You seem awfully certain those two are town, but that's by no means a sure thing right now. I don't like it.

Cop was an example, since almost all investigative roles have negative modifiers, like paranoid, naive or insane. And losing a scum member this early is pretty bad for the scum, so that's why I dom't believe they aren't scum as they didn't even try to defend him or doubt TricMagic's claim. I don't think anyone even considered the possibility of TricMagic being a lyncher, either. About that, you were one of the few to doubt the Nosy Neighbor claim.

Hmm. Somebody's lying. Gotta figger out who. Gotta throw my vote somewhere too.

Max Spin: Yeah, I'll second Nirur Torir's question there. Why vote NQT, who's backing up a supposed fake cop-read rather than the guy who faked said cop-read in the first place? Also, are you aware of any Miller-like abilities your role might possess?

TricMagic: Max claims never to have received this alignment confirmation of yours. Do you think he's lying?

Everyone: In what situations (bar Tric lying through his teeth, of course) might Max not have received this alignment notification?

Maximum Spin

Hm, lemme paraphrase to make sure I follow your words.

You suspect Tric might be third-party (or even town trying some crazy gambit), and you're reluctant to lynch him too quickly for that reason. At the same time, NQT jumped quickly on an easy lynch, for spotty reasons, and you therefore believe him to be mafia. Do I have that right?

I kinda have a problem with your "he-said she-said" rationale, as your vote on NQT is at least to some extent based on that "he-said she-said" squabbling. Why not just jump straight to the source? But your earlier words help explain that, assuming I understood them properly.

What's your current read on TricMagic? Mafia? Third-party? Crazytown?

So there's TricMagic, who claims to have a scum report on Maximum Spin. And, despite attacking and pressuring Maximum Spin in the same post, you vote for TricMagic, the one who claimed to have a scum report on Maximum Spin. This doesn't make much sense to me. What made you trust Maximum Spin over him, despite that he was even absent for most of the day? Scum would have obviously lied about being targeted with that ability.

Superdorf

[hector13]

NQT

This is exactly as fast as I like my games.

TricMagic, Deus Asmoth and Nirur Torir are clear as non-mafia, though any could still be 3rd party. I'm obviously a good guy.

This leaves...

Persus13 - who knows what he knows

Superdorf - scum for voting Tric
hector13 - probably also scum

KitRougard - ? ? ?
kingawsume ? ?
randomgenericusername ?

IcyTea obviously daykilled by Max.

How are DA and Nirur clear?

If I was scum I'd be much more cautious.

WIFOM much? Why make this statement?

You can take it as WIFOM if you like, but it's literally true though. Scum tend to be more cautious players, right?

*looks at the last game, when I was SK and was front and center for 2 days*

yeah, scum are all cautious. Literally true, especially when they don't have teammates.

Now that Persus has claimed not to know what he allegedly knows, do you have anything to reveal?

I'll reveal exactly what I mean by all this on D2, I promise.

Yes. Can you please stop choosing me for gambits? I still remember you repeatedly insisting I needed to die without stating or having any actual reasons why D1.

I'm sorry Persus, I really don't mean to be cyberbullying you. This is just weird stuff re: my role pm. It's not in town's interest's for me to say why today, but I'll explain it all D2.

It's in the town's interest to know there's something, but not what it is?

Why would a scum player vote Tric?

Because once Max flips, Tric would be conftown, so it'd be handy to get rid of them before that.

Is Tric conftown for getting a guilty result on a player that doesn't even know they're mafia? 'cause, presumably... actually...

Shakerag: do mafia know if there's an amnesiac mafioso in the game, and who it is?

If they don't, they could've thought Tric was talking nonsense, given they wouldn't know Max was part of their team and thus worth defending. Also, if Max did flip town - as I imagine they would be expecting - they know Tric is next on the chopping block, so they wouldn't need to vote for him until then, because otherwise it looks totes suspish.

Superdorf

Ugh. Someday I'll learn to stop sheeping people. For now, I'm just gonna flail around and see what happens.

KitRougard: You're good with mechanics, aren't you? Get over here and weigh in on this mechanics. Unless you have something to hide?

kingawesume: You too, ya dirty lurker. Let's see some opinions out of you.

randomgenericusername: Heyy, you're here! Quick, poke somebody and see what happens!

TricMagic: Congratulations, you're confirmed town. Care to throw a readlist our way, now that we know we can trust your word?

Persus13: You were pretty quiet during the whole Tric/Max mess. Will that change, now that mess has blown over?

notquitethere

If I was scum I'd be much more cautious.

WIFOM much? Why make this statement?

Tric isn't confirmed town, he's confirmed not on the same team as MaxSpin. Which was town-but-oh-really-actually-scum.

Hector13: How has your understanding of the game changed after these recent roleflips?

I thought IcyTea was town prior to the flip (yes I know I was voting him, what about it?) and was inclined to think Tric's logic was... not sound as such, but at least made sense, so MaxSpin was probably scum.

Beyond that, we know at least two people probably have a day kill. Whether they know they have a daykill is another thing entirely.

RGU

Okay, so if I'm understanding this right, TricMagic claimed Nosy Neighbor and was confirmed town for getting a scum report on Maximum Spin, which was correct since he did flip as scum. notquitethere also was the first one to vote for him, so he's probably also part of the town and not mafia. Same with Deus Asmoth, I doubt scum would bus one of their members so early and quickly.

Between those that were against the Maximum Spin lynch were Nirur Torir and hector13, I think. Nirur Torir later voted for Maximum Spin too, and I completely agreed with hector13's arguments against TricMagic, so I can see it as him just getting "confused" by TricMagic's bizarre logic. (By the way, I think it's obvious that IcyTea was killed by Maximum Spin's daykill.)

Out of everyone, Superdorf just seems the most likely to be scum. I'll try to build a case against him later, since I don't really have much time currently. Did I miss anything else?

See the stuff about amnesiac mafiosos in NQT's section, since I don't think the mafia team actually knew MaxSpin was a member, so basing any analysis on that is not a good idea until Shakerag informs us one way or another.

I was never against a MaxSpin lynch, I just wanted to understand why Tric made a cop claim hours into the start of the game, and why he targeted MaxSpin, because both of those things seemed to be not good play to me. He gave a sufficiently convincing explanation of why he at least targeted MaxSpin.

Tric

hector13 - Probably Scum. You killed Icytea to remove talk from the town that could incriminate you when or if IcyTea died. Kinda the same reasoning I didn't let the replacement have a Night 0 game last mafia. Oh, and you now seem to see why I pair the two of you together, you always talk with each other during mafia games.

So NQT is convinced IcyTea killed MaxSpin, RGU is convinced MaxSpin killed IcyTea, and you're convinced I killed IcyTea?

Yeah you're all a little too confident in the unknowns for my liking.

Why would I kill IcyTea? My vote on him was clearly RVS, and I've been agreeing with him for the entire game. If I'm town, I have no reason to do it. If I'm anti-town, I have someone I can manipulate because they so clearly think the way I do. It is not in my interest for IcyTea to be dead, either way.

Further, we also know that you and I do not think alike, given our difficulties in expressing our ideas to each other so far, and my astonishment at you claiming cop within hours of D1 starting and having less than half the town present in the game, as well as shooting off an investigation with nothing to base it on. I genuinely think you've done everything wrong so far, regardless of the beneficial outcome for town.

It is banana bullying time in F/GO. Thankfully, I'm set. So, to the read list.

Superdorf - Eh, not much. Not likely to be Mafia though.
TricMagic -Either Confirmed Town, or SK. Either Way, my method is still the same, and there is likely a doctor still around. Max Dying today does ruin a game plan though, good on the one who removed them if not town, and bad if someone else killed them.
Nirur Torir - N/A. Why reference last game earlier, get to hunting. Better than a Null read at least.
Persus13 - Slight Scum lean. You only posted something after the kill.
hector13 - Probably Scum. You killed Icytea to remove talk from the town that could incriminate you when or if IcyTea died. Kinda the same reasoning I didn't let the replacement have a Night 0 game last mafia. Oh, and you now seem to see why I pair the two of you together, you always talk with each other during mafia games.
KitRougard - Null.
kingawsume - Also Null.
randomgenericusername - Also, Also, Null.
Deus Asmoth - Slight Town.
notquitethere - N/A. I'm watching, and that question before another's death is strangely timed. As is immediately calling out Superdorf as scum, despite of an unvote before that post. Voting me is not really indicative of a scum alignment in itself.

Why are you even putting in that you might be SK in your own read?

How does Max dying - ie someone you have mechanical evidence is anti-town - ruin a game plan? Do you not want scum to be dead?

Why is DA only slight town when he was voting MaxSpin based on your claim, and NQT, voting for MaxSpin for the same reasons, N/A? What does N/A even mean in this context? Does NQT not deserve a read?

hector13 - Probably Scum. You killed Icytea to remove talk from the town that could incriminate you when or if IcyTea died. Kinda the same reasoning I didn't let the replacement have a Night 0 game last mafia. Oh, and you now seem to see why I pair the two of you together, you always talk with each other during mafia games.

Hector has yet to reply to this.

wtf is wrong with you? Do I have to respond to you IMMEDIATELY once you post the question? I have a life man. I need to eat, I need to sleep, I need to work in order to have material in order to do these things. You do this all the time man, do you think people are as braindead as you are? For example:

To note, between Page 3 and 6, it seems like hector was trying to do something to discredit me.

Like here for example.  I told you I was trying to figure out why you were doing something I found, frankly, fucking stupid. I wanted to know why you targeted someone who has been of negligible utility to town in all their games as opposed to... someone who has been marginally useful. Prior to your explanation of it, I thought that was also fucking stupid.

Consequently, I needed to ask you about what you were doing, because it literally made no fucking sense to me whatsoever. If you think that asking questions to figure out intentions is an effort to discredit, then you are an idiot because every other player in this game and every other mafia game that has ever been played has done it, you moron.

He was also messing with others wording while ignoring the words behind them.

Citation needed. I asked you about this before and you ignored it. Fuck you if you expect me be hard for Tric 24/7 and you ignore a perfectly reasonable question which is part of the case you have against me.

It is also bad form that he split my quote into [1] & [2]...

I explained here - in fucking excruciating detail - why I split that, and also to what the questions were referring. I said I thought I explained it at the end.

...and later on said there were 3.

Citation needed.

This as well kinda explains his entire view at the moment.

So, you targeted DA then, Tric?

I voted Maxspin you dolt. I know you're smarter than that.

Oh Tric you're too smart for me I can't begin to understand what goes on in your head. That's why I ASK FUCKING QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT THE FUCK YOU'RE FUCKING DOING FOR FUCK'S SAKE WHY IS THAT SO FUCKING HARD TO FUCKING UNDERSTAND?

I am not going to respond to you again. Interacting with you is torture, and I'm not putting myself through it anymore. It takes too fucking long to parse a post in such a way I think you won't misunderstand it and when you do misunderstand it you don't ask questions and go off on some flight of fancy that I'm scum trying to make you look bad instead of, you know, playing mafia and trying to understand what you're doing.

No fucking more, holy fucking shit, I am done.


I've not read the last, let's say 15 posts because I don't know how many people posted.

[Shakerag]

Shakerag: do mafia know if there's an amnesiac mafioso in the game, and who it is?

If the player's starting role is anything but Mafia then no, not until the amnesia is cured.

[randomgenericusername]

Unvote Superdorf. Seems like I just got things wrong. If neither scum nor town knew about Maximum Spin's amnesia, then it's entirelly possible scum just jumped on what they believed was an easy day 1 misslynch for town. At this point, it's just WIFOM.

[notquitethere]

That's reasonable point about SD actually. I wonder if KitRougard is like beetlejuice.

Hector is hedging a lot, which I don't like, but he is putting some effort in, which I do like (and is not something I can particularly do rn)

Also, thanks goes to Persus for actually reading the role list. I've taken a glance over it regarding some of my own role questions now as well.

[Shakerag]

Queued day actions have been processed.

Day will end Thursday May 23rd, 1:30 PM Central Time.  Weekends don't count.


Vote Count
------------------------
(1)Superdorf - Persus13
(0)TricMagic -
(0)Nirur Torir -
(0)Persus13 -
(1)hector13 - TricMagic
(2)KitRougard - Superdorf, notquitethere
(0)kingawsume -
(1)randomgenericusername - Nirur Torir
(0)Deus Asmoth -
(0)notquitethere -
(0)No Lynch -

Not Voting - KitRougard, kingawsume, Deus Asmoth, hector13, randomgenericusername



Please let me know if the votecount seems inaccurate.

[Superdorf]

PPE: RGU unvoted me for some reason while I was working on this. I figger I might as well put this up anyway.
-------------------------------

It's obvious since he was both mafia and had a daykill, and if I was mafia in his situation I would have use it too. He was getting votes, and IcyTeam31 was in the middle of building a case against him, so he probably decided to use it now before it was too late. The few times I've played with IcyTea, he seems to have a strong town game even when he's not part of it, so it would help scum to get rid of him early.

Oh. Right. I... uh, I missed Max's role-reveal when he died. Somehow. I was sleep-addled at the time.

Cop was an example, since almost all investigative roles have negative modifiers, like paranoid, naive or insane. And losing a scum member this early is pretty bad for the scum, so that's why I dom't believe they aren't scum as they didn't even try to defend him or doubt TricMagic's claim.

You misunderstood me, I think. Most investigative roles do indeed have negative modifiers. Nosy Neighor does not. Therefore, TricMagic's inspection was almost certainly accurate, leaving one less way for Max's scumbuddies to defend him.

But now we learn Max's scumbuddies didn't know he was mafia. So... moot point, I s'pose? Eh.

About that, you were one of the few to doubt the Nosy Neighbor claim.

Yes, I doubted the Nosy Neighbor claim. It looked to me like the crazy gambit of an erratic mafioso. I was wrong.

So there's TricMagic, who claims to have a scum report on Maximum Spin. And, despite attacking and pressuring Maximum Spin in the same post, you vote for TricMagic, the one who claimed to have a scum report on Maximum Spin. This doesn't make much sense to me. What made you trust Maximum Spin over him, despite that he was even absent for most of the day?

I was tired, and I was trying to push both of them with one vote. Of the two, Tric made me slightly more suspicious-- at this point, I hadn't studied the thing deeply enough to have much more than emotional reads, and Tric always looks weird to me-- so I threw my vote that way. At the same time, there were points in Max's defense that I wanted to clarify with him.

On top of all that, I expected to have another day to move that vote if I needed to, depending on how Max reacted to my pokings. Then I was asleep, and then Max died, leaving me with this weird quasi-D2 mess to sort out!

It was late, I was sleepy, I tried to do something weird, I messed up. Now I'm trying to reorient myself.

[Persus13]

I think scum would have known that Max was on the scumteam. If Amnesiac Mafioso was the only thing making him Mafia, he'd have flipped and been inspected as town. Since he flipped and inspected as Mafia, and I highly doubt his amnesia had been cured because the game had barely started, he probably had access to the scumchat.

Persus13: What are you trying to accomplish with these mechanical ruminations?

If you don't understand the game you're playing, why play? Also this is a rolepower heavy game, as evidenced by the two daykills. Mechanics is going to be important to winning the game.

Hm, alright... let's have some more mechanics, then. Who d'you suppose killed off IcyTea? Is Max Spin's killer a vigilante or an SK?

Max had a day kill, was active beforehand, and knew his days were numbered. Why wouldn't he have fired off a day kill? As for who killed him, speculating on their alignment is pointless because there's nothing clear cut either way. Who are you most suspicious of right now?

No. I was letting you know that Nosy Neighbors can't be Paranoid. The last two sentences of my previous post were because your last post came off as "I was attacking a scum player. Back off".

But why did you see fit to let me know this?
It was not relevant to my attack.
It felt like you were trying to alter my attack into something else.

I let you know that because I was "informing you of mechanical information you didn't seem to be aware of." Like I said in my initial response to your question. You seem to have a problem with that but are beating around the bush instead of actually saying something.

Also, thanks goes to Persus for actually reading the role list. I've taken a glance over it regarding some of my own role questions now as well.

Thanks, but I haven't actually read the full role list, I just know some of what's available from King of the Mafia, and have been using Control F to find a bunch of stuff because I was curious.

[hector13]

That's reasonable point about SD actually. I wonder if KitRougard is like beetlejuice.

Hector is hedging a lot, which I don't like, but he is putting some effort in, which I do like (and is not something I can particularly do rn)

Also, thanks goes to Persus for actually reading the role list. I've taken a glance over it regarding some of my own role questions now as well.

What am I hedging?

To be fair I suppose I haven't pointed out yet that I find you most suspicious, but that's just because I know you're up to something and I don't know what it is.

PPE: Y'all need to stop making assumptions.

Shakerag: If an amnesiac mafioso hadn't remembered who they were yet, would they inspect as mafia or town? Also, did the trigger to remember happen at the start of D1?

[hector13]

However, beetlejuice had to be recited three times before he would appear, so

KitRougard

[Shakerag]

Shakerag: If an amnesiac mafioso hadn't remembered who they were yet, would they inspect as mafia or town? Also, did the trigger to remember happen at the start of D1?

Amnesia has a 1 in 3 chance to be cured when each day starts.

Assuming everything was successful, and there were no other abilities to interfere with the inspection, and said person hadn't changed alignments since the game started, they would inspect as whatever alignment they started the game as.

[Superdorf]

Amnesia has a 1 in 3 chance to be cured when each day starts.

Interesting. This includes D1, yes?

[Shakerag]

Amnesia has a 1 in 3 chance to be cured when each day starts.

Interesting. This includes D1, yes?

Yes.

[Superdorf]

Hm. One more question: you say an inspection on an inactive amnesiac mafioso would read as town. What about a roleflip on a dead inactive amnesiac mafioso?

[Shakerag]

Hm. One more question: you say an inspection on an inactive amnesiac mafioso would read as town. What about a roleflip on a dead inactive amnesiac mafioso?

Same answer.  Substitute inspect for roleflip.

"Assuming everything was successful, and there were no other abilities to interfere with the inspection, and said person hadn't changed alignments since the game started, they would inspect as whatever alignment they started the game as."