I don't normally like posting in a thread after I've gone
out, for a number of reasons, including the fact that it's super rude to the replacement, but with the real chance that there'll be no replacement and the fact that I've got a bit longer to post than i was anticipating (I didn't think I'd be able to be active at this time but I've got ~5hrs).
Most places don't allow it, actually, but what are you gonna do, ban me? I don't give a fuck.
If sincere, why are you out?
If not sincere, why say you’re out when you’re not?
Y-you can't post
out and not be out.
You're not entitled to know why people go out. You can decide whether or not it's in good faith on your own, but imo it's pretty obvious that going
out is against my team's interests no matter my alignment. I'm by far the least likely to get lynched or killed in this game.
Also I shouldn't be posting in the thread since I'm not playing, so you're addresing questions to someone outside of the thread who can't reply within it. That's pretty rude and the main reason there's not some character-limit spoiler of my off-topic discussion with Persus.
Incidentally, it's "
out lol" because it's funny to me that I had to go out after waiting several months on a forum with literally 0 activity for this game.
Your response for part 2 here doesn't make much sense to me, mostly because I don't agree with FOU's original assertion for it. Not having read your role can't make you look like town since you don't know what side you're actually on, so ICT's day 1 play would be a null tell at best.
It blows my mind that you can not get this. How, exactly, do you plan to distinguish a vanilla townie from a player who doesn't know their role? Outside of open/semiopen setups where knowing you're a vanilla townie tells you whether or not other players could have that vanilla townie slot (rarely relevant D1), they'll play exactly the same. I guess the vanilla townie knows exactly how many of the other players are scum if the size of the scum team is known, while the no-pm player doesn't know whether or not they're taking up one of those slots, but if anything that's
more likely to get you townread. Ignorance, and anticipation of ignorance, is the number one marker of town. Why do you think we lynch powerroles? They know more than the average townie should.
Deus Asmoth: activity is the best measure of townyness. You've a history of relative inactivity as scum. How will you convince me you're town in this game?
No it isn't, and I'm pretty sure I have a history of relative inactivity in general. I don't really intend to do anything to convince you I'm town other than what I normally do.
Besides the fact that there's more anecdotal evidence of this than literally any other claim that has ever been made about tells/slips in mafia, it's also obvious from first principles. Town players can optimize their play for maximum volume of work without reducing their ability to be townread 'per unit work', whereas scum can't because they can't write stream-of-consicousness like town can.This will always be true and will always be what matters. Sure,
relative to other players activity might not mean much if you're physically or psychologically unable (or unwilling) to devote more than a given amount of time or can't produce as much work per unit time as another player, but activity relative to a given player is always relevant and you, in particular, have given no reason why your established metagame can't be used to evaluate you without at least relatively high efficacy.
Activity really shouldn’t determine whether your town or a mafioso I feel like lol, I mean sure their are things that people have done that seems suspect when looked at and you can start, but how is it the benefit to the scum to not be inactive if anything the people doing excessive questions and statements are trying to possibly cover the fact their mafia by making everyone think their in charge so they couldn’t possible be scum.
If you really want evidence, find somewhere like this forum or wherever which automatically records games and read every game and evaluate for yourself the relative activity of town to scum.
It's also the first thing talked about
here. NQT, Jim, Webadict and Toaster are the only players who know their dicks from their assholes posting in 2013 in that thread, and you can see what they say about the theory.
But like I've said about, it's able to be shown through first principles if the town players are
attempting (
regardless of competance) to play optimally and have a known meta.
Inactivity is a null tell most of the time, but one strategy scum can do is be quiet and not super active to avoid drawing attention to themselves, and let town attack town. This is called lurking.
This is literally all scum can ever do, which is why the opposite is a towntell. Any argument a townie develops against another townie can always make the attacker look townier than the attack can make the other townie look scummy, if both townies are playing authentically. That's always able to be compared favorably to not posting, which the scum are doing in this scenario.
The strategy you mention is definitely one I've seen deployed before, but lurking is also something I've seen used effectively. The main issue with lurking is that it doesn't make for a fun game.
Voting people for metadrama outside of the thread also doesn't make for a fun game, but it doesn't mean you don't do it.
When are you going to start to develop a case for lynching the person you're voting?
For reference, every time I engage in this metagame discussion about the evils of inactivity it strengthens my case on TricMagic's one post and literally zero content.
I'm reading Superdorf's old games for reference now, and town!Superdorf was way more aggressive than
First, let me just say that this
Is that a response or an accusation?
Clarify for me please: is this an answer or an accusation?
was an accident. As I said earlier--
Is that a response or an accusation?
I don't want to enter N1 without knowing your alignment. Why do you seem content to do the reverse?
It's an observation which dodges the question without answering it.
ignore my last question to you please-- I missed this in my evening thread-trawling. 
--I didn't see dolores ask that question in my read-through that day.
But... yes, now you point it out I do see the similarities in our action. I've an unfortunate habit in these games of picking up on somebody else's reasoning-- whether consciously or not-- and using it as a basis for my own work. I did so with Nirur Torir, I did so with NJW2000; both times I came out the worse for it. (Town still won those games, mind! Just, maybe not so much by my contributions.)
Yes, Ι'm showing "chutzpah". I'm faking it. I don't actually know what I'm doing, but I have this notion that I'm supposed to act like I know what I'm doing so's to look intimidating and pressure people, so I try to bluster. I'm not great at it, but I try to bluster! Does it help? I dunno.
If I'm not asking for help so much this game, it's 'cos I'm hoping I'll be a little more comfortable with the structure of the game this time 'round anyway. Maybe I lose that noobtown shine in the process, but... I was going to have to at some point, no?
More questions from me later. This post was written in haste; I've a very very busy day ahead of me.
In both PHM2 and VTM. It's a really scummy response to that particular type of pressure.
Oh wait nevermind
PPE: RGU unvoted me for some reason while I was working on this. I figger I might as well put this up anyway.
-------------------------------
It's obvious since he was both mafia and had a daykill, and if I was mafia in his situation I would have use it too. He was getting votes, and IcyTeam31 was in the middle of building a case against him, so he probably decided to use it now before it was too late. The few times I've played with IcyTea, he seems to have a strong town game even when he's not part of it, so it would help scum to get rid of him early.
Oh. Right. I... uh, I missed Max's role-reveal when he died. Somehow. I was sleep-addled at the time.
Cop was an example, since almost all investigative roles have negative modifiers, like paranoid, naive or insane. And losing a scum member this early is pretty bad for the scum, so that's why I dom't believe they aren't scum as they didn't even try to defend him or doubt TricMagic's claim.
You misunderstood me, I think. Most investigative roles do indeed have negative modifiers. Nosy Neighor does not. Therefore, TricMagic's inspection was almost certainly accurate, leaving one less way for Max's scumbuddies to defend him.
But now we learn Max's scumbuddies didn't know he was mafia. So... moot point, I s'pose? Eh.
About that, you were one of the few to doubt the Nosy Neighbor claim.
Yes, I doubted the Nosy Neighbor claim. It looked to me like the crazy gambit of an erratic mafioso. I was wrong.
So there's TricMagic, who claims to have a scum report on Maximum Spin. And, despite attacking and pressuring Maximum Spin in the same post, you vote for TricMagic, the one who claimed to have a scum report on Maximum Spin. This doesn't make much sense to me. What made you trust Maximum Spin over him, despite that he was even absent for most of the day?
I was tired, and I was trying to push both of them with one vote. Of the two, Tric made me slightly more suspicious-- at this point, I hadn't studied the thing deeply enough to have much more than emotional reads, and Tric always looks weird to me-- so I threw my vote that way. At the same time, there were points in Max's defense that I wanted to clarify with him.
On top of all that, I expected to have another day to move that vote if I needed to, depending on how Max reacted to my pokings. Then I was asleep, and then Max died, leaving me with this weird quasi-D2 mess to sort out!
It was late, I was sleepy, I tried to do something weird, I messed up. Now I'm trying to reorient myself.
This pattern of behavior is exactly what he did in the previous two D1's where he was town. It's not
optimal. There should be no post defending his behavior, he should just keep producing content and tell ICT to go fuck himself for giving you shit for actually posting in an openly pro-town manner. He knows this and if Superdorf continues to defend himself instead of follow cases, he'll look and be scummy and if he goes back to following content, there'll not be any opportunity
to lynch him. I don't like the change in content with my going out (and use of that fact is another reason it's verbotten to post after going out, this is literally cheating), especially since it's a change in content
away from what I'm looking for and I won't be able to follow up on that (and his anticipated subsequent flip-flop after this post) in my abscence.
I think Tric wouldn't be a bad choice, but I'd probably shoot dolores. Partially to save waiting for a replacement, but also because it feels like they did a lot of talking about how valuable they are to the town alive and how much worse their scum game is, which gives me a few alarm bells. I also felt like their initial RVS question to me was strangely leading and based on misinformation.
Obviously it's leading, I already anticipated having to lynch scum!DA based on his inactivity, and that's a pain to do D1 without setting up for it from the start of RVS.
It's definitely not based on misinfo lol, the fact that you keep claiming this is further sign that you're trying to deny it because it
is an accurate scumtell that
will be used on you in this game.
Naturegrill2000: why are you still fielding questions without any questions of your own? I'm really not down with your passivity and lack of apparent desire to know more about the roles and alignment of other players. If TricMagic had posted literally anything, I'd be voting you now.
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Topic: Proc Gen Mafia 3 - Game Over - Mafia Win! (Read 37209 times)