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[notquitethere]

GM Question: Doge Empower disallows duplicate actions. Does Necromancy Consume allow multiple Consume uses on the next turn?

I realises the rules weren't crystal clear on this point, but no, extra action use has to be with different abilities. Essentially, every ability is spent for the cycle when you use it.

[Nirur Torir]

I already made points. As for Rezzing, Necromacers exist. The Level 4 consume will likely occur before the level 5 res, and can result in a whole daisy-chain of destroyed bodies to rez. Particulaly if the Doge level 1 ability comes into play. Or if Scum decides to do full level 2 Doge and steal 3 townies votes.

... Thinking more on it, this seems like a plan for town to lose any sort of initiative and we all get lynched during the day without any votes to our names.. Reaching level 2 is a lot easier than 5.

Let's see. With dogge 2 and scum kill, they get +2 votes, giving them 5, while we get -2, so they can steal the lynch from a 6 person town. This reveals them. That night we pass around swords while another dies, and the next day is 3v4. Another town lynched, 3v3 at night when we finally have swords. Assume they have shields too, which means they'll win.

We can break that by limiting deaths before we can rez, finding scum early, or having kills ready. I'm not too happy with the idea of delaying to hand out swords, unless it's only 1-2 L2 merchants and we can form a strong towncore.

[Toaster]

Oh man, 100 posts since day start.  Why did I sign up for this?


Webadict:

Jim Groovester, are you gonna carry me to victory?
Toaster, same question as Jim's but also we vote the Masons.

I'm allergic to voting masons.  If you're town, sure.



FallacyofUrist:

Toaster: When should a town aligned player attempt to deceive their fellow team members?

Hm.  It's hard to think of a viable circumstance.  There's cases for being vague in general but mostly aimed at confusing unknown scum, but intentionally misleading specifically town is an odd circumstance indeed.  I can't think of any examples, but I won't say they don't exist.



Nirur:

Toaster: Who would you rather have on the scum team, Wuba or Vector?

I'd probably say Vector for uniqueness.  I'm not sure I've been scum with Vector a full game.  They're both good choices for a scumbuddy.


Vector:

Toaster? Toaster. What do you think of Toony's plan? And Webadict's casual RVS? Also, top 4 scumpicks right now?

I'll address The Plan below. Web's RVS is unusual, but I smell an attempt by him to see who's attention he grabbed.    Four?  Eeesh, it's barely out of RVS.  I wouldn't put it past Toony to come up with a plan that he could abuse to mislead town, but I'd hardly call him a scumpick.  Mmmmmm sorry, we've gotten wrapped up in mechanical discussion; no one is leaping out as scummy yet.  You'll know when I see some, however.



The Plan:

Pros:  Does tie people up for the night.   It will be difficult for mafia to work any extra sneaky actions, including kills, into the cycle.

Cons:  Two Mafia in a row frees someone up for shenanigans.  Flaws can foul up attendance to the plan.   We're assuming we can trust Toony for coming up with the order of this list; if he's scum he could 1) put the list in that order on purpose 2) knows some way to get around it via role info from his team.  Several abilities can screw with it.  People can lie and say they have a flaw that prevents them from participating.

Spoiler: Abilities that can mess with The Plan (click to show/hide)

Monk 2 (Delay)
Flowermaiden 5 (shield-bypassing kill)
Witch 4 (Curse of preventing new shields)
Assassin 1 (Frame seriously screws with Spotlight)
Doge 4 (Ban spotlight is a hard counter to this)

Spoiler: Flaws that can ruin this (click to show/hide)

Hardcore: DO NOT CLAIM THIS IF YOU HAVE IT
Minimalist:  See above
Hazy
Lender, maybe
Magnetic
Intermittent
Wasteful
Unreliable
Corrupt
Tricksome

That's... fully half the flaws that can interfere with the Plan.  I will go ahead and say I have one on this list, but not one that will outright stop me from participating.


The biggest problem, in my view, is Ban.  I don't see any way around Spotlight getting banned.


THAT ALL SAID I'm on board with doing this part of the plan, tonight.  Why not hand shields to everyone?  That'll create a provable action log that can be used to eliminate a lot of variance tonight.

[Nirur Torir]

Cons:  Two Mafia in a row frees someone up for shenanigans.  Flaws can foul up attendance to the plan.   We're assuming we can trust Toony for coming up with the order of this list;

It's the sign-up order from the first post, the most obvious list order to fairly choose.
The only safe alternative I can think of would be for someone to mix the list up in various orders and have everyone approval vote half the list picked at random, but that's annoying and takes a lot of posts to distract from the game.

[juicebox]

So my question right now is, do we believe mightymushroom's claim that they're mechanically prevented from following the plan, and if so, what do we have them and any others who can't be a part of the circle do?

[Secretdorf]

Looks like it'll take a year te read all that.

[Jim Groovester]

We still need Jim and Toasty to get in here.

Working on it.

Anybody, do me a favor and give me a quick summary of what's happened so far so that I can use your responses as reads when I catch up to the thread.

[Jim Groovester]

Oh webadict is trying to break the game

Okay cool, once I read the details I should be down for it.

[webadict]

We still need Jim and Toasty to get in here.

Working on it.

Anybody, do me a favor and give me a quick summary of what's happened so far so that I can use your responses as reads when I catch up to the thread.

ToonyMan has you as Lover.
ToonyMan made a plan. Some people like it. I don't.
LuckyOwl rando'd Llama, so no one has it. Lends credence to ToonyPlan.
Lots of people discussing merits of plan. Not a lot of scumhunting.
LuckyOwl is top Townread. I will chainsaw anyone that votes them.
FallacyofUrist is top scumread. I voted them.

[webadict]

So my question right now is, do we believe mightymushroom's claim that they're mechanically prevented from following the plan, and if so, what do we have them and any others who can't be a part of the circle do?

I'm willing to trust them. I'm also prevented, and kinda in a bad way, too.

[Vector]

Nirur:

Toaster: Who would you rather have on the scum team, Wuba or Vector?

I'd probably say Vector for uniqueness.  I'm not sure I've been scum with Vector a full game.  They're both good choices for a scumbuddy.

OK, here's another question . . . let's assume that you're town this time. Who would you prefer to be playing scum against you?

[Jim Groovester]

It's not a foolproof plan.

Is this the same webadict who advocated for the mass suicide N1 strategy in BP3 even though that was an even less foolproof plan?

I'm still catching up on the details but this puzzles me.

[Vector]

Is this the same webadict who advocated for the mass suicide N1 strategy in BP3 even though that was an even less foolproof plan?

I'm still catching up on the details but this puzzles me.

Toony is actually the progenitor of this plan.

[Jim Groovester]

I realize that, but I'm still puzzled by webadict's opposition to it.

I get objecting to a plan on principle because if there is a game breaking plan to mechanically win the game then we might as well not be playing a game of mafia at all, but, you know, play to win.

[webadict]

I realize that, but I'm still puzzled by webadict's opposition to it.

I get objecting to a plan on principle because if there is a game breaking plan to mechanically win the game then we might as well not be playing a game of mafia at all, but, you know, play to win.

BP3 was a bastard mod. Bastard mods are games where the best thing to do is the dumbest thing.