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[ToonyMan]

I ask Meph if my ability will trigger if I'm night killed and he gave more than what I asked and said that my night action is low on the pirority list so If I'm interuppted my night action won't go through. So if I were converted then Blu wouldn't be here.

Where? In scumchat?

From my understanding your conversion would happen and then you would perform your resurrection as your new alignment. So you're lying.

@MOD:
A conversion wouldn't stop a priest from performing their resurrection the same night, correct?

Kills happen during that time too, so if somebody killed you that would also prevent the res. Scum decided not to do that either apparently.

[notquitethere]

Toony that's actually a pretty compelling case on Lucky. Especially the TMI aspect with the devil. The thing is, only an idiot devil would say "You will give me you soul in exchange for this gift", right? They're under no obligation to mention that part of the deal.

And I note Lucky ignored this question:

Lucky, what exactly did the Devil offer you?

Lucky, care to answer?

[ToonyMan]

Well, that pretty much cross me off as a possible suspect. Since I brought Blu back from the dead. Sadly, it seems not as townie. From my understanding from meph explanation on how my one shot ability works. Is that I don't know if I'm pure or not. Which has nothing to do with my alignment. Also another tidbit. I ask Meph if my ability will trigger if I'm night killed and he gave more than what I asked and said that my night action is low on the pirority list so If I'm interuppted my night action won't go through. So if I were converted then Blu wouldn't be here.

I think someone else said up-thread that conversion is even lower in priority and so happens after resurrection. You're quite right that no one thinks you're the converter. People are just wondering if:

No, conversions and kills happen right before disturbing the dead. Look at the action order in the OP.

[4maskwolf]

Lucky's defense relies on an incredibly tortured interpretation of the facts, if you can even call it that. Meph already more or less stated that if Lucky was converted last night his revive would still have gone through and Blue would have been revived with Lucky doing the revival as a scum priest. Thus, the potential two-for-one people are talking about. So no, the fact that there was likely a conversion last night does not by any stretch of the imagination clear him, although if we are looking at a conversion team it would, imo, clear him from being on the team at start of game for balance reasons.

The fact that he blindly OMGUS'd a survivor for pointing out he's a mechanically favorable lynch target is also NAGL. There's not even any logic behind it it's just pure OMGUS, "you voted me so I'm voting you lol." Didn't you suspect Toonyman Lucky? He's voting you too and suspects you way harder than I am. So where's your vote on him?


Side note, I'm pretty sure the mechanically optimal strategy for the town re: devils is for the first townie given the deal to accept it and then no further townies to do so. If anyone admits to taking the second deal it should then be considered outing as a wolf. Basically, one deal for the town is fine because the wolves don't want to give the devil two wolves, two deals is bad for the town because the wolves could use it late game as ex. a LYLO breaker getting two town for one wolf.

[4maskwolf]

I should probably clarify that the "LYLO breaker" angle also includes getting rid of the devil so it is essentially a 3 for 1 trade.

[Luckyowl]

And I note Lucky ignored this question:

Lucky, what exactly did the Devil offer you?

Lucky, care to answer?

The devil offer night kill, misdirections, and protect.

[ToonyMan]

@4maskwolf:
That's true. I also retract my statement that the Devil should claim, it's better for town if they stay quiet about who they are.

I think only having one townie accepting a deal is good, but I don't see how we can make sure of that. Plus scum would have to risk taking significant loses if every remaining town player refuses deals after the first player accepts.

@Luckyowl:
According to 4mask optimal play would have been to accept the first Devil deal as a townie, why selfishly hold onto your life when we could get rid of two scum after via Devil?

[Persus13]

4mask:

Lucky's defense relies on an incredibly tortured interpretation of the facts, if you can even call it that. Meph already more or less stated that if Lucky was converted last night his revive would still have gone through and Blue would have been revived with Lucky doing the revival as a scum priest. Thus, the potential two-for-one people are talking about. So no, the fact that there was likely a conversion last night does not by any stretch of the imagination clear him, although if we are looking at a conversion team it would, imo, clear him from being on the team at start of game for balance reasons.

When you say conversion team do you mean a full cult or a one-shot? I could see a two person scumteam having a priest and a one-shot, especially if its an impious one.

NQT:

The thing is, only an idiot devil would say "You will give me you soul in exchange for this gift", right? They're under no obligation to mention that part of the deal.

The problem with this argument is the flavor for the devil each time its shown up (Supernatural 1, Supernatural 4 , Supernatural 9) contradicts this. Its pretty explicit about the whole give up your soul thing.

LuckyOwl:

And I note Lucky ignored this question:

Lucky, what exactly did the Devil offer you?

Lucky, care to answer?

The devil offer night kill, misdirections, and protect.

Since you're here, were you on the way to the graveyard or coming back from it? And you haven't answered Toony's question.

Icytea:

I'd love to hear what IcyTea's thoughts on the end of D1 and D2 so far because you seemed to be pretty out of it after parking your vote on LuckyOwl. I'm used to you having more/longer posts and being more of a day game leader, but a lot of your posts are reactionary or don't have followup and are pretty short.

IcyTea was all for lynching either Luckyowl or BluarianKnight, but then voted juicebox.  He backs into Luckyowl again, noting "pushback from Vector and and Toony."  He doesn't take this analysis anywhere.  Why, IcyTea?  What do you make of this now?

I was multitasking, and was frustrated with how I'd get ninja'd ten times before I could get a longer post out, so I switched out my style for more agility, counting on the posts being analyzed during the night so I'd need to be less explicit. But since you asked:

-Notquitethere led the EoD actively and competently. Pretty much past my accusation of trying to distract with mechanics.
-webadict was pretty passive, but I'm the pot on that.
-juicebox materializing from the aether to post after being CFD'd looks a lot like being spooked while intentionally lurking.
-Toony and Vector didn't join the CFD, which weakly links them with juicebox. Vector was pretty happy to relax as well.
-CFD didn't spook anyone into changing their vote to protect juicebox, which would have been telling.
-From what I can figure of the night so far, a Luckyowl lynch is no longer as informative as it would have been D1.

Being lynched or voted is a powerful motivator for people to post, regardless of alignment, and Juicebox said it was a PFP. What makes you think this is alignment indicative more than just checking the thread on  a break and firing off something?

I stayed on Toaster pretty much all of day end, does that weakly link me to anyone?

[Luckyowl]

MOD

I forgot to ask some questions earlier that 4mask reminded me of while reading, let's fix that.
@MOD:
Can third-party be converted?
Is every town role convertable? If not, which ones fail and what is the outcome?

Some of them. It depends on the role and sometimes who's doing the converting.
Most are. Sorcerers are immune to night actions and Monster Hunters either die to a conversion or are immune (depending on who's doing the conversion).

Which third-party can be converted?

Toony:  Why do you think Lucky is not a terrible lynch?

Because he's scum. I'm more convinced he's been scum all along to be honest. I want to trust Web's read but I can't.

Lucky feels...heavily filtered.

1. His posts have been sparse and delayed. He hasn't pushed any cases, he's only popped in to say he's town and to defend himself.

2. Someone else on his team could be the priest, meaning Lucky is still a possible converter (being completely puppeteered by his partners but still).

3. He has voted three times:
First on Day 1 to lynch a player he suspected as strong town so he can bring them back as confirmed?? (sure he says Web could be mafia, but Web isn't in their three mafia picks)
Second on Day 1 to save himself from getting lynched over Blue.
First on Day 2 as an OMGUS against 4maskwolf.

Complete shit votes that are either a terrible plan or to protect himself. Has not scum-hunted at all, which brings me to my next point.

4. He has actively participated less than Juicebox and Secretdorf and they're not even playing.

5. Claims a Devil visited them on Night 1 and they declined the offer. Lucky doesn't even fully read threads he's in as town, there's no way he would read other games. This smart-tell from Lucky makes me believe his scummates are assisting heavily.

Why wouldn't Lucky, a complete newb, accept a Devil deal?

"I just used up my priest revive, having another ability would surely help town."

The whole thing is fishy.

I can't..you know if I flip town and these ridículos  claims are left here for people to see. It'll only make you look bad. There's better targets than me,Like NQT.  Why, oh why would I create an eleborate or my "puppeteer" would create an convulted plan to lie about me rezzing? The fact you are thinking like this ironically makes me think you're town misguided.

if I knew the devil deal was a neutral party and the deal was good for town as well. I would've accepted it and probably never mention it so I don't give the scum more info on what else I can do.

[Luckyowl]

Persus13: The voice came when I was preparing to leave to the graveyard. Distrubing the dead is low on the pirority list. You can look at the OP order action.

[ToonyMan]

@Lucky:
If I'm misguided town then why is NQT a better target?

As for the Devil deal, fair enough. I don't think you're lying about being visited.

[TricMagic]

@TricMagic: Why did you claim Knight on Day 1? You realize that would only help scum?

You're. You're really asking this? Did not being painted as a true orange werebear not clue in the need for that? I try and stay from saying so and people paint me as something I didn't even know existed. Just not having the right info resulting in a mess. NQT didn't have to make that last post. They did, which does lead me to believe they aren't playing for town. They had pretty much pushed everyone off of me, which would leave mafia as the only ones worrying if I was lying and had some powerful role. But Notquitethere pushed it. Had I stayed silent I would have been lynched, and at that point being revived wouldn't really help any, I'd be roleflipped.

[4maskwolf]

4mask:

Lucky's defense relies on an incredibly tortured interpretation of the facts, if you can even call it that. Meph already more or less stated that if Lucky was converted last night his revive would still have gone through and Blue would have been revived with Lucky doing the revival as a scum priest. Thus, the potential two-for-one people are talking about. So no, the fact that there was likely a conversion last night does not by any stretch of the imagination clear him, although if we are looking at a conversion team it would, imo, clear him from being on the team at start of game for balance reasons.

When you say conversion team do you mean a full cult or a one-shot? I could see a two person scumteam having a priest and a one-shot, especially if its an impious one.

One-shot. I will stake quite a bit on us not looking at a full conversion team, for reasons already stated. I'll get back to your response to me later, I'm at work, I just hopped on to say something to Toony. Your theory isn't bad per se but I'm playing under the assumption that we won't see an out-of-the-blue wolf team setup like that. Let's reduce that from "conversion team means Lucky started town" to "conversion team means Lucky >rand started town".

@4maskwolf:
That's true. I also retract my statement that the Devil should claim, it's better for town if they stay quiet about who they are.

I think only having one townie accepting a deal is good, but I don't see how we can make sure of that. Plus scum would have to risk taking significant loses if every remaining town player refuses deals after the first player accepts.

@Luckyowl:
According to 4mask optimal play would have been to accept the first Devil deal as a townie, why selfishly hold onto your life when we could get rid of two scum after via Devil?

You can't have your cake and eat it too, Toonyman. You can't one minute ask why Lucky played mechanically proper because he could never do that and the next say demand to know why he didn't make an optimal play. You can't demand to know why someone didn't take an action based on a mechanical strategy devised after they already took said action, especially when you've already stated that there's no way they could take a mechanically optimal approach without assistance. And your implied take that Lucky wouldn't accept the devil offer because he's a wolf under that strategy shows a lack of thought behind your push because five seconds of thought on it would realize that a wolf would always take the first deal as well under that strategy, because it denies the town the extra ability and the town doesn't know they're a wolf and will refuse any more deals. It also allows them to slip in under the town's radar to get an ability for the wolf team.

Your cases today seem extremely low-effort compared to what you were doing yesterday. Your question to Tric "why did you claim knight" is laughable since you were literally there when it happened and part of the cause of it by insisting he was a werebear. Your case on Lucky is first to sheep me on why he's an optimal target (fair enough, NAI) and then to go on a massive tear about the devil thing where you constantly contradict yourself on your own thoughts on Lucky. I haven't felt the same kind of townie energy that I mindmelded with so hard yesterday. What's the deal?

PPE: Ninja'd on the "wtf was that question" by Tricmagic.

[notquitethere]

Tric

Had I stayed silent I would have been lynched, and at that point being revived wouldn't really help any, I'd be roleflipped.

It's not my fault you breadcrumbed the complete opposite kind of fakeclaim to the thing you actually claim to have! If you saw a werebear serial killer try to encourage people to visit him at night, wouldn't you say something?

Toony
Ah I see. I knew the Devil could PM anything but hadn't considered that the game would be given away with Meph's descriptions.

[ToonyMan]

@Tric:
You were not up to be lynched at all. You claimed for no reason. Any flak you got was your own fault from claiming roles in the first place.

@4mask:
I see your first point and agree with it. If Lucky is scum he would definitely take the deal. I'm not sure what optimal play is which is why I used your name.

As for your second point, I don't see what's different. I've hated Lucky most of this game. If I see something I don't like I say something, doesn't matter who.