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[Vector]

. . . . . . . . . . Is it really rolefishing if you claim the action and didn't have to?

[Secretdorf]

FallacyofUrist, start talking about the house. I buy no more of that "conversation piece" bullcrap.

Finally: I really fucking hate all of the rolefishing about who has auto abilities good night abilities sweet role blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. It's undisciplined and distracts from the daygame. Do a better job of that first plx kthkx.

Say you hate role fishing right after fishing for info on my role.

Humble abode doesn't sound anything wrong to me. FOU, could you explain it if it doesn't waste your plan or smt?

The house was intended to generate conversation. It also does other things which I may or may not explain at a later time. You may assume the other things benefit me.

The countdown was probably just flavour.

my action is non-significant

Yeah no, I don't like this. Secretdorf.

Whats wrong about it, you dont like? I just claimed I didnt do it. And that I am not telling what I did.

[Secretdorf]

The countdown was probably just flavour. And I doubt anyone will claim that but maybe luckyowl as they haven't posted after that yet.

I think you're lying.

Aren't countdowns general flavour in mafia games? I am basing it off of that. But I dont know maybe someone did it.

[Vector]

PS. I looked into the posts that NQT linked and the # of BS/non-mafia questions was zero in each post. However,

Secretdorf, what's your secret?
Luckyowl, heads or tails?
Toaster crumpets or scones?

I wanted to include "4mask are you gonna do anything nuts" and "Jim is D1 just a waste" on the list but I ended up putting those in the broadly game-relevant category.

Now, here's the point: we all remember the good old "what color is my tie" RVS ( ... or ya do if you're a FOSSIL like me ) but I find the difference between what NQT is doing, and what he claims he's doing, kinda disingenuous. The broadside "let's interact with everyone" is a normal opener. The FallacyOfUrist variant wherein you ask 80 questions, many irrelevant, is alignment indicative.

[notquitethere]

Vector, it looks like you decided you didn't like my post then invented further reasons not to like it. Like take "non-meaningful interaction with Caz"-- Caz openly speculated about what Diplomacy might mean in Web's opening post and I explained my best guess, how's that not game relevant? Also since when is broadly agreeing with someone about one minor thing "pocketing"? Seems disingenuous.

I stand by my analysis on Lucky. I think that if they're town then it's likely scum are using them as an easy wagon. Do you disagree?

. . . . . . . . . . Is it really rolefishing if you claim the action and didn't have to?

He claimed an action which we know the flavour of, it absolutely is role fishing to press on what it does. Scum!Vector would want to know if the house is a big threat to her team, whether to bump Fallacy up the kill list.

If the house grows teeth and eats someone, I'll be the first to have words with Fallacy on D2.


My best guess RE: countdown is that Secret didn't realise how ominous it would look so now he's denying responsibility for the big countdown. Unless anyone else is claiming responsibility?

[Vector]

Vector, it looks like you decided you didn't like my post then invented further reasons not to like it. Like take "non-meaningful interaction with Caz"-- Caz openly speculated about what Diplomacy might mean in Web's opening post and I explained my best guess, how's that not game relevant?

If you break down what's happening in the post into a blow-by-blow, the actions are at best scummy-to-null.

Also since when is broadly agreeing with someone about one minor thing "pocketing"? Seems disingenuous.

You mirrored BK's answers exactly on a fairly specific point.

I stand by my analysis on Lucky. I think that if they're town then it's likely scum are using them as an easy wagon. Do you disagree?

Lucky is indeed an easy wagon, and you can observe for yourself that the majority of the newer players are sitting on it regardless of their alignment. But in the light of it being an ideal scum bandwagon, I don't see why you suggest launching Lucky and then looking for the scumteam among the wagoners. If you're actually looking for scum and think that they're riding the Lucky train, attacking the bandwagoners now would make more sense to me.

He claimed an action which we know the flavour of, it absolutely is role fishing to press on what it does. Scum!Vector would want to know if the house is a big threat to her team, whether to bump Fallacy up the kill list.

"I'm going to daykill Lucky," "Hahahaha nope instead I built a house to spark conversation," "But not conversation about what it is and what it does," "Only OTHER conversation," "there is SO much viable CONVERSATION about my MYSTERIOUS MANOR,"

Look: I'll take your point if you can think of some ~other~ conversation revolving around Instant Architecture than the one that I'm pursuing at present.

[notquitethere]

Vector

You mirrored BK's answers exactly on a fairly specific point.

Not exactly, no. And I said exactly what I believed. You're saying I was lying to pocket BK, but I clearly wasn't. "4mask has a less legible style now" he posts a million posts a day as 3rd party (or he did in the last game), that's a less legible style than before; you tend to read to me as town, I've probably already said as much in other games (though you're doing a good job of changing my preconceptions, so well done).

Lucky is indeed an easy wagon, and you can observe for yourself that the majority of the newer players are sitting on it regardless of their alignment. But in the light of it being an ideal scum bandwagon, I don't see why you suggest launching Lucky and then looking for the scumteam among the wagoners. If you're actually looking for scum and think that they're riding the Lucky train, attacking the bandwagoners now would make more sense to me.

The big word is "if". If Lucky is town. I think he's doing a good job at behaving like scum so far this day, so no one is completely unreasonable for voting him but given what we know about him there's a good chance he's lazy town.

And I went away and had a think about this "lynch chaining" accusation and it really is the most bullshit thing. In this game we find people scummy by their actions. If their actions are "jumping on a weak player and doing nothing else of note" then we'd have good grounds to lynch them, right? Like, let's see what players do and assess things after the flip? Now, if I were to vote for players for just voting someone whose alignment I can't know for sure, you're saying that would be better-- do you know something about Lucky that I don't know?

"I'm going to daykill Lucky," "Hahahaha nope instead I built a house to spark conversation," "But not conversation about what it is and what it does," "Only OTHER conversation," "there is SO much viable CONVERSATION about my MYSTERIOUS MANOR,"

Look: I'll take your point if you can think of some ~other~ conversation revolving around Instant Architecture than the one that I'm pursuing at present.

Yeah okay this is an absolutely fair point.

Fallacy what did you mean by "conversation" if you've nothing more to say about the house?


Early Webcasting Analysis

For this game I decided to cast a wide net and return to the old technique of trying to start a conversation with everyone simultaneously. There used to be this notion I had the purpose of RVS questions should be to set traps, to catch someone in a hypocrisy or to bely a scum mentality. But it wasn't well founded. I don't think anyone ever got caught in those traps. No, just the act of starting an engagement with people is the important part. Gives everyone more content to work with.

So who didn't engage? Who isn't reading the thread? I.e. who doesn't care about catching scum? This is obviously just the lowest bar players have to reach, but does everyone reach it?


Answered right away
TricMagic
ToonyMan
4maskwolf
Reverie
Jim Groovester
BluarianKnight
FallacyofUrist
Caz
Toaster

Complained about the questions so clearly read them but didn't bother to answer
Vector

Answered right away but ignored the follow up question
Secretdorf

Won't read or answer
Luckyowl

Conclusions: Lucky can't even raise himself to the lowest bar of "reading the thread". Clearing his slot is probably sensible. Secret is also moderately disengaged from reading. Vector must have figured I didn't care about the answers because they complained about the questions and then didn't answer the one I asked them, despite it being the most game relevant question I asked anyone.

[Reverie]

Finding the random and apparently deliberate switch to Verdana here interesting, along with writing out the individual colors as hexes.

I am not fond of the apparent abundance of careful/cautious play/overtalking things, or of these copouts:

What you're seeing there is my ongoing battle with the forum's rich text formatting. I assure you that I'm not being cute and passing messages along with my font choice or via hex code. As for my cautious play, that has always been my style.

I won't apologise for voting for Luckyowl. Whether or not the vote was easy did not change the fact that he basically asserted that he didn't have a read on anyone so he was just going to continue a grudge for some other game. This doesn't read like RVS posturing, and his disappearance only strengthens my suspicions. This kind of play is lazy and dangerous. On the other hand, now that Bluarian and FoU are onboard, it's starting to look like either a false lead or a bus. I'm willing to find out which at this point.

Reverie, what is your read on Jim/NQT.

Jim seems town to me, but he's notoriously hard to pin down. His points are sound, at least. NQT is undecided to me.

Now, about the mansion: something stood out to me that no one brought up, and it's that web called it 'hospitable'. Are we talking hospitable in a sense attributed to houses in general, or does the mansion itself exude hospitability? The way these two day events interact, the mansion sounds downright inviting juxtaposed against the 'ominous' number in the sky.

[Caz]

Early Webcasting Analysis

For this game I decided to cast a wide net and return to the old technique of trying to start a conversation with everyone simultaneously. There used to be this notion I had the purpose of RVS questions should be to set traps, to catch someone in a hypocrisy or to bely a scum mentality. But it wasn't well founded. I don't think anyone ever got caught in those traps. No, just the act of starting an engagement with people is the important part. Gives everyone more content to work with.

Not this again.

[Caz]

Idk, I say kill Secretdorf or FoU until they explain their day actions.

[notquitethere]

Let's have a closer look:

Eerily, a strange glow begins to come from above, and goosebumps immediately appear on your arm. An ominous feeling comes over you as you begin to look upward. You see runes draw themselves onto the sky itself in a deep crimson "10". Merely looking at it sends shivers down your spine.

This is explicitly a bad omen, and it's unsurprising that nobody has claimed casting this bad thing. Most likely something implemented by the scum team.

An earthquake shakes the ground, and as you come to terms with the large omen above, you feel a sense of hospitality as a gigantic mansion pulls itself from the earth in front of you. Trees and dirt fall from its roof, but, finally, the structure stops moving.

There's not much to go on, but given that Fallacy openly claimed it and it's a place of 'hospitality', it's probably not dangerous.


Caz, what do you mean by "again"? This isn't remotely similar to the bogus analysis case I made against you a few games back.

[Caz]

Caz[/b], what do you mean by "again"? This isn't remotely similar to the bogus analysis case I made against you a few games back.

....fire noises

[Secretdorf]

My day action is townish and confirmable. But we need a town player to confirm it. This

However, if someone needs a night action...tell me.

[Secretdorf]

Luckyowl, if you are thinking we'll spare you because of your lurking in past games as town, that is probably not going to happen so you should probaly tell us that you are town. Unless you are a jester. NQT, what was the follow up question, I cant find it. Reverie feels scummy to me, somewhat. If someone has a daykill, please use it on luckyowl, no one else.

[Reverie]

Luckyowl, if you are thinking we'll spare you because of your lurking in past games as town, that is probably not going to happen so you should probaly tell us that you are town.

So let me get this straight, all it would take to convince you is him townclaiming? Really?