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[ToonyMan]

I'll have more to say after some sleep. Before that though...

FoU's posts are comparable to porn acting in terms of believability.

This is the funniest shit I've read in this game so far.

[prefuzek]

OK I figured out why I'm town reading Toony pretty hard now.

D1 Toony's play was... fine. He was fulfilling his vet role but not doing too much that was super pro-town.

D2, now that it's MYLO, he's really stepped it up. He's directing the town, making good reads, eliminating scum pairings. Everything looks great and like he's trying to carry the town. Since this is a newbie game and he's the vet, I think he does this as town but not as scum, because it's basically just terrible luck that we're in D2 MYLO. He's trying to make up for that bad luck, and I don't think he'd tryhard this much as scum. Evidence: 1 2 3 4 5

In particular I don't think scum Toony goes for the trick on EuchreJack in link 5. I also agree with him that Euchre's response to that whole series of events doesn't feel genuine. Ugh, I'm going to have to ISO Euchre, aren't I.

Heh:

I realize I'm being too tryhard for a veteran in a newbie game.

[ToonyMan]

If I had to guess FoU was busy/away so Jack gave the N1 kill action by themselves without any input from FoU.

1. Bluarian suspected Jack pretty hard so mafia!Jack would likely want to kill them to silence a detractor. Plus as Jack admitted himself he believed Bluarian was a likely PR hit.
2. FoU had Bluarian as their top suspect after Hedgerow, it doesn't make sense for mafia!FoU to want to kill Bluarian here unless Jack gave the kill order without getting any input from FoU.
3. TricMagic stated D2 would start once all actions have been submitted, FoU is the main player I can think of who would not have been around for most of N1 due to being busy/their schedule.

In general, Jack's defense against them being partners with FoU falls apart when you consider FoU isn't around 24/7 to help Jack out in scum chat.

[ToonyMan]

Here's a question for you, actually. Is it scummy, at this point, to post speculation on who has the last town power role? Because I think I know who it is. And of course that person must be town, so I find myself in the position of needing to fake a worse read on them so the scum don't catch on. I might have spoiled it already by saying this much, unfortunately, but I think it's more valuable to share this fact so I don't create confusion.

I strongly discourage any genuine PR hunting when it's the only thing mafia want today.

Are you planning to lead town like usual?

Yes. I would also expect more standard play from me.

What is Toony's standard play?

When I said this at the start of the game I didn't mean standard Toony play, I meant standard play in general. Hence why I didn't want to rock the boat too much and didn't push cases very aggressively. I was going to ask Tric if I could still post green text advice if I died N1, but I didn't have to since I'm still here.

Now that it's D2 and everything has gone wrong I want to do as much as possible before mafia probably kill me tonight. Pref is right that I'm basically playing as I would in a serious champs game at this point because town have been severely hurt by a D1 dead PR and D2 town modkill. I don't expect or even want to be around tomorrow and would like to see the rest of town win the game through their own effort.

Overall conclusion: Either I can trust him completely or I can't trust him at all. Leaning towards the latter, though I admit I may be lying. Or just wrong.

Insightful. You should be honest with your scumhunting, there's no reason to mask your reads. Scumhunting is not the same thing as PR hunting, at all. What happens if you're killed tonight and your deceitful reads are used against town? Or is this not something that comes to mind since you're mafia?

[ToonyMan]

Scummy
Hedgerow - blatantly scummy, if they're not a hit then I think the two mafia are in Magma/Blu/Pref/Rolan

Did you ever clarify what you meant by 'blatantly scummy'? Because in retrospect, that doesn't look as good. Looks more like malice - or mistaking hedgerow's PR tells for scum tells.

Hedgerow had no reads beyond "Roden and Jack are mafia" before changing it to "Roden is mafia, Jack is town".

They openly refused to interact with most players and just wanted Roden dead for suggesting that the BP step forward:

@Hedgerow:
Got anything to say besides BP mechanics?

No.

[EuchreJack]

Well, in the interest of honest scum hunting, and the fact I don't want my deceitful reads used against Toonyman, I have a dosser on my Toonyman is town on my computer. I'll probably post later today, but Toonyman is Town due mostly to his emotional responses all game

[Roden]

I'll have more to say after some sleep. Before that though...

FoU's posts are comparable to porn acting in terms of believability.

This is the funniest shit I've read in this game so far.

Lol, I really do believe it though.

Nope. Not if you both leave your votes on me for a full 24 hours or something. There's going to be at least one or two hours in that time span where mafia can communicate and do the quickhammer.

... what? Brain hurty.

Great, so you agree it's most likely Pref/FoU or Jack/FoU.

I just said if I was scum Jack/FoU would be unlikely.

Look, if it's gonna be either of those pairs, it's Pref/FoU. Jack is so fishy it's impossible for him to be scum.

Of course I still think it's more likely that the true pair is Roden/Magma, but you've lost a lot of credit with your recent actions, meaning I have to rethink.

Ugh.

It couldn't be a Magma/Toony team, couldn't it? Shit, it absolutely could. Now I'm worried.

Posts like these just feel performative. It's structured in a way like they just had typed out a stream of consciousnesses, but it's clearly written and formatted in a way where it's just trying to convince us it's genuine. The italics and last minute doubt are purposely thrown in despite being made to look like they're just posting their thoughts as they come to them.

[Roden]

I don't see the point in not just voting now tbh. Theoretically, sure, town odds are better to vote no lynch. But in reality all it'll do is cross me off the list and you'll all just be in the same place tomorrow. If a Tracker speaks up they can be safely counter claimed by scum. And in all honesty, if both Jack and Toony are town as I suspect, I don't trust Jack not to make an emotional/rage vote against Toony. The entirety of this game is proof that town!Jack would absolutely do that.

While it's true the mafia could CC the Tracker, that still confirms one and only one between the two is mafia.

That's what makes it a crap shoot for me. God forbid this happens between Jack and Pref, as town is just screwed at that point because of how unreadable they are.

I just don't think there's any way FoU isn't scum at this point. Like, yeah, Magma appears to be guaranteed scum going by PoE. But FoU's posts are comparable to porn acting in terms of believability. And when I accused him of scum slipping, he didn't even react to it. Wouldn't town at the very least ask for me to point out which post I'm referring to? Wouldn't town try to defend themself? All he did was ignore and try to bury the claim. That reads like a scum move to me.

Fine, then I'll help you out.

MAGMA MATER

Also, I'm NOT the tracker or the Jailkeeper.  Happy now?

Why would I vote Magma now when he's the PoE choice but FoU is the scummiest choice?

[EuchreJack]

At this point, if you think the scum team could be FOU/Pref, you should keep voting FOU. Or if you think it's FOU/me, ditto.
Right now, we're cancelling each other out. We really need to decide if we want to go into end-of-day like this, or both switch to no-vote

[Roden]

If nobody wants to jump on FoU then I'll no vote tonight before I go to bed.

[EuchreJack]

The Defense of The Toonyman as Town

Known Busser, but won't do unless suspicion?  Roden is only possible scumbuddy, and Roden has been suspected by some players.  If Toony-Roden were the scum team, Toonyman would be bussing Roden as we speak.

Hm, sort of think this post from Web helps Toonyman. I haven't figured out WHY, but something in it seems to actually help show Toonyman as town.

hedgerow - my gut said their first couple (very short) posts were scummy. This post would be super audacious for a new scum though so I don't know what to think. I'm guessing they'll be a lynch target today, good to keep an eye on.

I tend to agree. Hedgerow is being ridiculously obstinate which doesn't make sense as mafia. I don't think a newbie mafia would refuse to participate so adamantly.

Actually believed in Hedgerow.  I was being FAR to hard to Toonyman for the Hedgerow mislynch.

@Tric:
Pref is voting FoU.

@Hedgerow:
You need to claim since you're the top wagon and day ends soon. If you're actually a PR we don't want to vote you.

Here, Toonyman is desperately trying to SAVE Hedgerow.  Hedgerow, unfortunately, was too dumb to take the life preserver.  It happens...

What do you mean? If Hedgerow claims a PR I would rather vote anybody else over them. We might not have time to validate the claim but...

1. If they're town we are more likely to hit mafia today.
2. If they're mafia they will be outed tomorrow once we validate since the trade is worth it for town.

Toonyman negotiating with Town to save Hedgerow if they take the above life preserver.

Your only scum reads were Jack and Roden. Now you seem to think Jack is town?

Your response makes it clear you're not a PR at least.

You could tie the vote by voting FoU, why aren't you?

Yet more attempts to save Hedgerow, this time trying to save them even if they aren't a power role.  Might have actually started listening to me, or maybe just following their Hedgerow read above.

So, it really does all come down to Hedgerow.  Maybe their death was not completely in vain?  I'd like to salvage something from that tragedy.

Could this have been an act by mafia!Toonyman? I'm not feeling it, because it puts far too much focus on a person that is trying to evade notice.  It feels raw, emotional.  And Toonyman has been consistently annoyed and frustrated at my pushing the Hedgerow mislynch onto him.  Mafia would have expected to be blamed for the mislynch, and would not be responding quite so emotionally.

Hope that helps!

[prefuzek]

Euchre D1 ISO time. This'll be a lot of work and I don't think I'll go through every post of his because he is too verbose.

Early in the game, Euchre is voted by hedgerow then me. Euchre says he likes my vote but not hedge's. I also say I didn't like hedge's vote. Euchre then changes his mind and says my vote is suspicious because I didn't like hedge's vote. I call him out saying that this makes no sense, and he justifies it with a completely different and absurd argument. This is mega-scummy and I wish I'd pursued it more on D1.

Here Euchre ignores my questions/case on him and asks a useless counterquestion. He also unvotes hedge due to very little pressure from Toony despite claiming to have no reason to do so (this is only slightly scummy because caving into vet pressure is what I expect from town Euchre as well).

This quote is interesting when considering the Euchre/FoU pairing. I haven't decided if it makes that pair less or more likely.

Maybe I'll just sheep FOU.  They're a pretty solid player when Town.

Euchre spends a lot of time on D1 asking for more activity and reads from people. I think this is null since Euchre likes playing the game and always wants more posts to interact with; presumably this is true for scum Euchre as well.

Fun tidbit (these are from two consecutive posts):

To answer your question, I'm scum-hunting you.

Where did I claim to be scumhunting?  Quote please!

End of D1 (pre-extension) looms with Euchre having the most votes. Euchre votes FoU for not posting reads then unvotes with FoU not having posted in between. He then realizes he's about to get lynched and votes... Roden?! Because Roden started a conversation that caused others to vote for him. The entire reads list feels like everything changed for Euchre when he realized he was about to be lynched. Though this line is very town and makes me suspect that the scum are not FoU/Euchre:

webadict/FOU: With the switch, my brain just can't handle it yet - Note that Web was probably in the middle of some gambit, then FOU subbed

This is a post to come back to if we need to decide if that's the team.

Euchre makes a bad case on Roden but I think this is null. The day gets extended. Roden swaps to voting Euchre, hedgerow votes Roden then back to Euchre, tying them at two apiece. Then, a super strange post:

Fun fact, Magma's vote extension was just a bit late. Not that it matters much given five players spoke for an extension and me just getting back.
(Outside of extensions that won't be the case though. Good Luck.)

Last of the First Day Votecount, 9:56 AM

() BluarianKnight
(2) EuchreJack- hedgrow, prefuzek,
(0) prefuzek -
() Magma Mater
(0) webadictFallacyofUrist -
(2) hedgerow- BluarianKnight, Roden
(0) Roden-
(1) Rolan7- Toonyman
(1) ToonyMan[Veteran Player]- Magma Mater

3 not voting. 5 to lynch.

Day ends on Wednesday 9:40 AM Central Time

If I remember correctly, ties result in no lynch normally.

Well I have to change my vote to EuchreJack to survive.  Thanks for reminding me.

That should be 2 and 2, assuming he revoked his vote.  The dangers of the mob.

OMGUS

Vote EuchreJack

Somebody else explain this, please?  Haven't I posted enough already?

It looks kind of like Euchre thinks that if he posts enough he shouldn't be lynched, and since that isn't the case he's giving up. But he can't actually be giving up, because before the self-vote he's not even leading in votes and his next posts are relatively normal. He also tells Blue (a townie) to stop voting for hedgerow (a townie who is the alternate lynch to Euchre) which makes no sense as scum. Strong town points here actually, but I'm still confused about the self-vote.

Euchre then votes BluarianKnight with a decent case. Also posts a reads list which seems pretty towny to me. + scum equity with FoU for this read though:

FallacyofUrist - Inherits townlean from Web, I really want them around D2 if Town.  If Scum, I think Town can handle them.  Bad pick for lynch D1

Towards end of day when the suspicion on Euchre has died down, he really pushes his BK case and continues to defend hedgerow:

@Prefuzek: What is your read on Blue?

Hedgerow is only discussing mechanics in this game and their reads are ridiculous. They claim Roden and Jack are the mafia and that everyone else seems normal. I don't know how they think that's okay. It's so outrageous I don't actually want to vote them which is hilarious. It's arguably a better town read than one-poster Rolan.

That is not true.  Hedgerow voted me because they thought I was overly reliant on mechanics.

Hedgerow only started talking mechanics due to Blue's prompting._{And note their mistake of editing posts, I'm getting a real Knightwing64 vibe out of them}

Hedgerow even took the time to taunt the person they though were mafia, before trying to weakly trying to justify why they kept voting their conscious.

A bad joke about wishing to be a bulletproof townie hardly counts as a discussion of mechanics.

EuchreJack is scum for just giving it to Roden over and over again; that much is clear.

And this is obviously not a discussion of mechanics...

So hedgerow made the newbie mistake of overly discussing power roles.  Been there, done that.  But they shut up as soon as it was pointed out to them, and then tried to scumhunt with it.

@Hedgerow: If you think I might be Town, reread Blue's posts and see if you get any weird vibes.  Was Blue "helping"?
Reread Prefuzek's posts as well.  On a scale of 1 is Absolute Scum and 10 is Absolute Town, where does Prefuzek fit?
Try to do an actual reads list, it helps you figure out who is "more" town, by forcing you to rank players.
The life you save may be your own.

@Hedgerow: If you are a PR, I'd probably prefer you claim at this point, so you can get some advice on how to properly use it.

Since the general consensus is that I'm not scum, your vote on me isn't helping you stay alive.  Either FOU or Blue would be better targets, if you think they could be scum.  Look at them!  Read their posts!  Maybe you see something! Others do, so READ.

@Blue: Your failure to vote is suspicious, FYI.

Summary: scummy play at the beginning but very towny at the end. I don't think he's scum, since some of this stuff (self-vote to break tie, pushing away from hedgerow vote, general demeanor when about to be lynched) doesn't fit. I'll take a closer look at his D2 play another time. The scummy stuff could just be bad town play. For now,

Euchre: Can you explain your though process for this post?

[EuchreJack]

Fun fact, Magma's vote extension was just a bit late. Not that it matters much given five players spoke for an extension and me just getting back.
(Outside of extensions that won't be the case though. Good Luck.)

Last of the First Day Votecount, 9:56 AM

() BluarianKnight
(2) EuchreJack- hedgrow, prefuzek,
(0) prefuzek -
() Magma Mater
(0) webadictFallacyofUrist -
(2) hedgerow- BluarianKnight, Roden
(0) Roden-
(1) Rolan7- Toonyman
(1) ToonyMan[Veteran Player]- Magma Mater

3 not voting. 5 to lynch.

Day ends on Wednesday 9:40 AM Central Time

If I remember correctly, ties result in no lynch normally.

Well I have to change my vote to EuchreJack to survive.  Thanks for reminding me.

That should be 2 and 2, assuming he revoked his vote.  The dangers of the mob.

OMGUS

Vote EuchreJack

Somebody else explain this, please?  Haven't I posted enough already?

I'm so glad you asked!  I wanted to explain it then, but I sort of thought I should stop hogging the spotlight and give someone else a chance to explain things.
In fact, I tried to get Toonyman to explain to Hedgerow what they were doing wrong:

Oh Great and Powerful Veteran Player Toonyman, please guide our newbie Hedgerow in their scumhunting journey.  Instruct them in the Ways of Towniness, lest they continue to run foul of Newbie Mistakes.  Explain to them The Importance of the Lynch, The Need to Hunt Scum, and that Town Wins even if Townie Dies, Scum Loses if Scum Die.  Almighty Veteran Player Toonyman, I beseech your gentle guidance for our brother/sister Hedgerow, whom seems willling but lacking in experience. Amen

Toony's adamant refusal is probably why I've been throwing so much dirt on Toonyman D2.  But its hard to balance "Veteran help" with "Town help".
I believe that is the mistake that Toonyman made by not telling Hedgerow what they were doing wrong.
...
But that doesn't answer your question entirely.
What I was doing, was commenting that Hedgerow was playing to survive, rather than to hunt scum, and this made them look extremely scummy.  They needed to NOT use their vote to work for a tie in this scenario, no matter what.  I voted myself, as you pointed out, to show that Town needs to lynch, even at the lost of their own life.

@Pref: If FOU is scum, who is their partner?

[Magma Mater]

Nope. Not if you both leave your votes on me for a full 24 hours or something. There's going to be at least one or two hours in that time span where mafia can communicate and do the quickhammer.

... what? Brain hurty.

Great, so you agree it's most likely Pref/FoU or Jack/FoU.

I just said if I was scum Jack/FoU would be unlikely.

Look, if it's gonna be either of those pairs, it's Pref/FoU. Jack is so fishy it's impossible for him to be scum.

Of course I still think it's more likely that the true pair is Roden/Magma, but you've lost a lot of credit with your recent actions, meaning I have to rethink.

Ugh.

It couldn't be a Magma/Toony team, couldn't it? Shit, it absolutely could. Now I'm worried.

Posts like these just feel performative. It's structured in a way like they just had typed out a stream of consciousnesses, but it's clearly written and formatted in a way where it's just trying to convince us it's genuine. The italics and last minute doubt are purposely thrown in despite being made to look like they're just posting their thoughts as they come to them.

Yes. "Now I'm worried" with no real follow-up on that thought. He did an iso on Toony and concluded nothing and certainly didn't focus on my interactions with him. It's like he's not even trying to look like he's trying to figure the setup out.

[Magma Mater]

Jack, can you do that thing where you evaluate pairings before EoD tomorrow? You have about 20 hours.