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[prefuzek]

ToonyMan: Have you been possessed by the spirit of notquitethere? What's the point of those numbers? And why didn't you do a total of absolute values to get a measure of how strongly people felt about each player overall? That seems like it would be a little more useful at least to rank people in order of how useful their lynch would be.

But I guess you don't care about getting reads from lynches? I don't see why you would advocate for Rolan otherwise.

What's your case on hedgerow and why are you townreading FoU? I'd be okay with a hedgerow lynch today but FoU seems better.

[EuchreJack]

@Prefuzek: What is your read on Blue?

[prefuzek]

Medium town. I haven't done an isolation read of their posts yet, but I read them correctly as scum in the last game and I'm not getting the same vibes. This post seems pretty good.

[EuchreJack]

Medium town. I haven't done an isolation read of their posts yet, but I read them correctly as scum in the last game and I'm not getting the same vibes. This post seems pretty good.

While I liked the part about getting lost in a cornfield, the rest sucked.

Also, was Web scum?

[ToonyMan]

ToonyMan: Have you been possessed by the spirit of notquitethere? What's the point of those numbers? And why didn't you do a total of absolute values to get a measure of how strongly people felt about each player overall? That seems like it would be a little more useful at least to rank people in order of how useful their lynch would be.

That's a good idea, shit I'm tired though...maybe I could type it out quickly.

I wanted to have a legacy post in case I'm not around tomorrow.

But I guess you don't care about getting reads from lynches? I don't see why you would advocate for Rolan otherwise.

I like associative reads but Rolan is unlynchable if we only base stuff on associations.

What's your case on hedgerow and why are you townreading FoU? I'd be okay with a hedgerow lynch today but FoU seems better.

Hedgerow is only discussing mechanics in this game and their reads are ridiculous. They claim Roden and Jack are the mafia and that everyone else seems normal. I don't know how they think that's okay. It's so outrageous I don't actually want to vote them which is hilarious. It's arguably a better town read than one-poster Rolan.

I'm townreading FoU because I'm clever and I've re-read Webadict's posts. I don't think mafia!Webadict freaks out at people like that as mafia and quits the game. I know it's bad form to discuss subs, but that's how I feel. Are you spooked now that FoU is posting since they're back home? Who are you more against being lynched, Bluarian or Rolan?

[ToonyMan]

This isn't updated with Jack and FoU's new read lists since I need to go to bed soon.

Absolute Values, total feelings a player gives off to others

EuchreJack (+2,-2,+0,+1,+2,-2,+1,+0) = 10
Roden (+2,+0,-2,+1,+2,+1,-2,+0) = 10

ToonyMan (+1,-1,-1,-2,+1,+0,+2,+0) = 8
Magma Mater (+1,+1,+0,+2,+2,+0,+2,+0) = 8

hedgerow (-2,+1,+0,+0,+0,+2,-2,+0) = 7

BluarianKnight (+1,-1,+1,+1,-1,+0,+1,+0) = 6

FallacyofUrist (+1,+0,+0,-2,-2,+0,+0,+0) = 5

prefuzek (+0,+1,-1,-1,+0,+0,+0,+0) = 3

Rolan7 (+0,+1,+0,+0,+0,+0,+0,+0) = 1


Observations:

Jack and Roden give off very strong feelings.

Toony and Magma also give off strong feelings.

Hedgerow and Bluarian give off mild feelings.

FoU is a sub in so the lower feelings make sense.

Pref and Rolan give off very low feelings.

Personally, I think this makes Jack, Roden, me, and Magma look possibly good.
Hedgerow and Bluarian are a bit more mixed with FoU.
Pref and Rolan are very null presences.

The reasoning for this is because mafia probably want to not get caught up in the heat of things since it could give them away more easily. A mafia player will want to hang back and not arouse suspicion, which will also cause a lack of strong feelings too.

[Rolan7]

I apologize for not playing for three days.  I was otherwise occupied, but I shouldn't have promised to play if I wasn't able.

I'd love to contribute but I don't have anything helpful to say.  Sorry.  I know that's sus as heck, but I promise I'll pay more attention and at least be around for the voting.

[EuchreJack]

I apologize for not playing for three days.  I was otherwise occupied, but I shouldn't have promised to play if I wasn't able.

I'd love to contribute but I don't have anything helpful to say.  Sorry.  I know that's sus as heck, but I promise I'll pay more attention and at least be around for the voting.

[prefuzek]

While I liked the part about getting lost in a cornfield, the rest sucked.

Also, was Web scum?

I don't mean good as in "was good scumhunting", I mean good as in makes Blue seem more town.

I think it's possible Web was scum. I don't want to speculate on the cause of his replacement request but I don't think it was all game-related.

ToonyMan: I'm not trying to give off null vibes. Some people are just born with a heart full of neutrality.

Are you spooked now that FoU is posting since they're back home? Who are you more against being lynched, Bluarian or Rolan?

I don't really understand the first question - why would I be - but I think the answer is no. From a game quality perspective I think lynching Rolan actually makes the game worse - either we get lucky and it's a 1v6 or we don't and it's a 2v5, but either way we're basically on D1 again but with an unbalanced game state. I'd rather wait for them to come back or be replaced. From a winning-the-game perspective I'd rather lynch Rolan though because I think they're more likely scum than BK.

PPE: OK that changes things.

Rolan: If you find the time the most helpful thing for you to do now would probably be to give us some reads and put a vote down.

[EuchreJack]

Honestly, I think Toonyman's read on Hedgerow is wrong because they're so far above them in skill, they've forgotten what lousy play is really like.  I recall making Hedgerow's mistakes recently.  I got misread by Toonyman recently.  Hence, my defense of Hedgerow

Experience/skill rankings
Our Veteran, Our Champion: ToonyMan
Magma Mater - I get a strong experience vibe from them, probably plays mafia elsewhere
Roden - General posts and demeanor indicate a semi-experienced mafia player, maybe more in real life than on forums
FallacyofUrist - Certainly has played their fair share, but still no expert
BluarianKnight - World Renown Expert on Scum play, has little Town experience
Rolan7 - Nulli-San
prefuzek - Flails about, but getting into the grove
EuchreJack - Game 4?  And if I don't get NK'd, I might even see Day 2 for once!
Hedgerow - I honestly believe this is their first game.  Maybe played once or twice live action mafia in High School/Elementary School/Summer Camp. Trying to play based upon mafia-wiki and literally nothing else.

Rolan: If you find the time the most helpful thing for you to do now would probably be to give us some reads and put a vote down.

And +1 to that!

[EuchreJack]

Hedgerow is only discussing mechanics in this game and their reads are ridiculous. They claim Roden and Jack are the mafia and that everyone else seems normal. I don't know how they think that's okay. It's so outrageous I don't actually want to vote them which is hilarious. It's arguably a better town read than one-poster Rolan.

That is not true.  Hedgerow voted me because they thought I was overly reliant on mechanics.

Hedgerow only started talking mechanics due to Blue's prompting._{And note their mistake of editing posts, I'm getting a real Knightwing64 vibe out of them}

Hedgerow even took the time to taunt the person they though were mafia, before trying to weakly trying to justify why they kept voting their conscious.

A bad joke about wishing to be a bulletproof townie hardly counts as a discussion of mechanics.

EuchreJack is scum for just giving it to Roden over and over again; that much is clear.

And this is obviously not a discussion of mechanics...

So hedgerow made the newbie mistake of overly discussing power roles.  Been there, done that.  But they shut up as soon as it was pointed out to them, and then tried to scumhunt with it.

@Hedgerow: If you think I might be Town, reread Blue's posts and see if you get any weird vibes.  Was Blue "helping"?
Reread Prefuzek's posts as well.  On a scale of 1 is Absolute Scum and 10 is Absolute Town, where does Prefuzek fit?
Try to do an actual reads list, it helps you figure out who is "more" town, by forcing you to rank players.
The life you save may be your own.

[Roden]

I feel better about the Web/FoU slot. Here's the thing for me though, Web is really good at reading Jack so if Web thinks Jack is 100% town then that means if Web/FoU is town then Jack is almost certainly town. This point is moot if both are mafia however. I strongly feel Jack is scummy here so I suspect the Web/FoU slot heavily or Web is simply wrong.

This is a little disingenuous. EuchreJack has never rolled wolf (at least on this forum). How do you know that webadict is good at reading Jack, and not that he just town-reads him every time regardless of Jack's alignment? You're treating webadict as if he has some sort of god read on EuchreJack when there's no way of knowing whether that's actually true without seeing a game where Jack is mafia and webadict is town. I'm starting to believe that this is the game where that's happened, and that you're trying to use this to dissolve the EuchreJack wagon.

Actually, I take back what I said about Toony and EuchreJack being paired. I don't think that's particularly likely considering the discussions they've had throughout the game. However, I do stick to what I said about the pushing of webadict's read being odd.

---

Deadline is coming up (again) and I don't think the ToonyMan wagon is gaining traction, so I'll unvote for now. I'll be clear that he's still my preference and that I find his play today highly suspect, but if nobody else is going to vote there I'd rather apply pressure elsewhere.

---

Regarding the case of EuchreJack v. Roden, I think that Euchre makes a couple of good points about Roden. In particular, I didn't like Roden's response to the accusation of putting Jack within hammer range - I think a better way of putting it is that his vote placed EuchreJack as the only viable wagon hours before deadline, and if we hadn't had an extension then it's likely that Jack would have been considered a default lynch. I think this is what Jack was trying to get at with his accusation, and I don't like that Roden was using the wording of "hammer range" to escape this accusation.

I don't fully understand why EuchreJack unvoted Roden, though. As far as I can tell, it was in response to hedgerow saying that Jack was focusing too heavily on Roden. Can you explain Euchre, what is your current opinion on Roden?

---

I'm going to place my vote here:
FallacyOfUrist
The lack of reads and the amount of filler in your posts is alarming. Despite getting a deadline extension specifically for you to get into the game, you've done nothing but refuse to engage other players. I think you're trying to freely coast to day two by virtue of being a replacement.

I should be back before deadline to answer questions or change my vote if need be.

There's a reason I said Jack wasn't actually at hammer range. I planned to move my vote off of him to Hedge from the start. I didn't think I'd get a strong reaction that quickly, but all I wanted was to see reactions and apply pressure. This let me town lock Jack pretty quickly, so I think it was actually pretty fruitful.

[FallacyofUrist]

There's a reason I said Jack wasn't actually at hammer range. I planned to move my vote off of him to Hedge from the start. I didn't think I'd get a strong reaction that quickly, but all I wanted was to see reactions and apply pressure. This let me town lock Jack pretty quickly, so I think it was actually pretty fruitful.

Okay.

Reads list errata: This post pushes Roden up from Neutral to Sorta Town.

[hedgerow]

@Roden:
I think you're right about Jack. Although I'm a bit miffed my reads are wrong, this definitely looks like a flaying townie now which I suppose is the exact info we need. This makes Web/FoU look better if true although not as cleared.

@Hedgerow:
I don't understand your case against Roden. Also you edited your post again.

In this case, do you think Hedge is our best bet if we were to wagon somebody? I don't think he's playing like a newbie town. I'm trusting you because of your reaction to Jack, you're trying to get him to calm down and stop flooding the thread and you'd have no reason to do that as mafia. Jack feels like a really easy mis-elim at this point.

So, there are a few ways to look at this.

Roden was so sure there was a BP player at the start of the game that he gambled and asked for him to come out, which EuchreJack agreed with, and pushed for, and then fought back against the suspicion, knowing no BP came forward.  Assuming that isn't completely true, which a townie would never gamble on, especially if it wasn't a BP, because that would leave two key roles, one of which would be risky to keep around and the other completely invalidated by the roleblocking mafioso.

So, assuming it was a gamble, and the doctor would never sell out, I'm going to change my vote to Roden.

Kinda cool.  I think the cigarette helped me with that.

Thing is, he had the advantage were he a townie, and he basically gave them one fewer turns to win were he a townie.  What's odd is the important role would find a way to be subtle getting rid of him, because he'd inevitably be a mafioso.

Your posts in general are really confusing and assume a lot...

But, did you just slip that we have a Roleblocker?

We most likely do, unless someone cheated.

Don't want to put you in harm's way.

[hedgerow]

Hedgerow is only discussing mechanics in this game and their reads are ridiculous. They claim Roden and Jack are the mafia and that everyone else seems normal. I don't know how they think that's okay. It's so outrageous I don't actually want to vote them which is hilarious. It's arguably a better town read than one-poster Rolan.

That is not true.  Hedgerow voted me because they thought I was overly reliant on mechanics.

Hedgerow only started talking mechanics due to Blue's prompting._{And note their mistake of editing posts, I'm getting a real Knightwing64 vibe out of them}

Hedgerow even took the time to taunt the person they though were mafia, before trying to weakly trying to justify why they kept voting their conscious.

A bad joke about wishing to be a bulletproof townie hardly counts as a discussion of mechanics.

EuchreJack is scum for just giving it to Roden over and over again; that much is clear.

And this is obviously not a discussion of mechanics...

So hedgerow made the newbie mistake of overly discussing power roles.  Been there, done that.  But they shut up as soon as it was pointed out to them, and then tried to scumhunt with it.

@Hedgerow: If you think I might be Town, reread Blue's posts and see if you get any weird vibes.  Was Blue "helping"?
Reread Prefuzek's posts as well.  On a scale of 1 is Absolute Scum and 10 is Absolute Town, where does Prefuzek fit?
Try to do an actual reads list, it helps you figure out who is "more" town, by forcing you to rank players.
The life you save may be your own.

I'll probably avoid getting you lynched with a tie if I can; Day 2 would be the time.