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[EuchreJack]

Webadict is reaching too hard.

I KNOW the mafia team isn't EuchreJack/Max/Toonyman

[Jim Groovester]

I need to put together my thoughts some more about the day so far but firing from the hip with gut impressions webadict's posts are bothering me the most. I feel like he's reading too much into things and I have a hard time seeing him as credible.

I am a roleblocker

I never said I was only a roleblocker, I am also a jailkeeper

it cant be

These might as well have happened back to back for all the time I've been able to give this game during Day 2. I could see Maximum Spin getting protected as a reason for the NK to not happen given my impression of him at day end.



I am emotionally burnt out right now. I'll give this game a little more time tonight but something more substantial is probably going to have to wait until tomorrow.

[Toaster]

Sure, let's do the thing where we narrow it down.

MOST TOWN:
EuchreJack:  If he's scum he's playing us like a fiddle.  Making well reasoned posts and backing them up.
Roden:  This feels like Town trying to unpack a confusing situation.
Magma Mater:  I don't like his arguments, but they don't feel *scummy*, just not great.

KINDA IN THE MIDDLE:
Webadict:  Not really sure what he's doing.  Curious to see his response to my claim.  PPE:  Well, he just continues to believe me based more on earlier events.  He can stay here.   Do note that- in my gut- he feels like a mechanical bad fit for scum.

SCUMMY:
Jim:  He's not really contributed anything, and mechanically in a good place to have blocked Roden.
Toony:  Still pinging my gut.  I don't like any of his arguments, and unlike Magma, they aren't at least grounded in reality.  Haaaaaard defense of Maximum Spin.
Maximum Spin:  Heavily covered reasons.


If we mark out those top three as possible scum, and I go to build teams out of the others...

1) Toony/Spin:  Obvious.  Spin went to kill while Toony built towncred by handing out an item.  Spin got blocked.
2) Jim/*:  Jim blocked Roden.  His scumbuddy tried to kill Spin; protected by me.  * would be... either Magma or Web.  Web's an odd fit here, but mechanically it's... okay?  His count could be total BS to sow confusion.
3) Jim/Spin:  Jim blocked Roden, Spin went to kill. 
4) Jim/Toony:  Toony gives out item, Jim tried to kill Spin?  Who blocked Roden?  Toony gives out item and Jim blocks Roden?  Why no kill here?  This one doesn't make much sense.

Ehhhhhhhhhhh still happy with Door Number 1 here.  Jim's claim reaaaalllly falls apart if he doesn't get announced D3.


I can believe Town!Magma being cagey about a claim that would help nothing yet but may help come D3.


EuchreJack:

Webadict is reaching too hard.

I KNOW the mafia team isn't EuchreJack/Max/Toonyman

How do you ALL CAPS KNOW this?

[webadict]

Webadict is reaching too hard.

I KNOW the mafia team isn't EuchreJack/Max/Toonyman

Would you like to waste everyone's time by pretending I said that or just your own trying to find where I didn't say that?

I'll be honest here, Euchre, I think you're probably Town, even when you try your darnedest not to be.

[EuchreJack]

EuchreJack:

Webadict is reaching too hard.

I KNOW the mafia team isn't EuchreJack/Max/Toonyman

How do you ALL CAPS KNOW this?

Because I'm not scum.

Webadict is reaching too hard.

I KNOW the mafia team isn't EuchreJack/Max/Toonyman

Would you like to waste everyone's time by pretending I said that or just your own trying to find where I didn't say that?

I'll be honest here, Euchre, I think you're probably Town, even when you try your darnedest not to be.

@web: You got a result of 3 on EuchreJack, does that include yourself?

It does not. There is a third person that targeted EuchreJack that has not confessed.

Toony gave Jack an item, which Jack confirmed.
Jack Neighborized Max, which Max confirmed.
Web gave an accurate count on the number of actions affecting Jack, so his action is essentially accounted for.
Jim claims Day 3 IC with no abilities, he gets resolved tomorrow.
You blocked Max, which confirms both of your actions.

All that leaves is Magma Mater. If their action can be confirmed, then no one else could have made my action fail except you, by way of you lying and actually being Ascetic.

A bit unrelated, but if you are lying and are mafia, then the lack of NK may be because of either a delayed kill or an alternative passive killing method.

Well, technically, no, my action requires one more person to confirm me fully. Unless Maximum Spin actually did target EuchreJack, but that doesn't seem like it should if he was roleblocked.

?? You're forgetting to count yourself bro

I've highlighted the section you missed.

No, I don't count in the 3. I get a ping for each instance of a person actioning and being actioned (other than myself, which would be a bit silly).

It's quite possible that EuchreJack is the other Roleblocker? I was going to say that'd explain the ping, but it'd actually not because EuchreJack then used another action on top of it, which still leaves the action economy unresolved.

Subtle attempt to suggest I might be scum.

[webadict]

Oh shoot, you're right, it's all fucking three of you.

[EuchreJack]

Alternate Theory: Scum team is Webadict and Toaster, they tried to kill ME, they failed, and are now looking for the doctor.

PFP

I gave an item to Jack, please confirm but don't say what it is though.

I got 3 on Jack. I assume Jack actioned, so who's the last one?

You'll see Web "using his ability" after ToonyMan revealed giving me an item.
Also, Web "isn't sure" if my action counts.  So if 2 people claim to have actioned me, he can "clarify" my action actually didn't count.

[ToonyMan]

Toastadict Case

1. Webadict
2. Toaster
3. NJW reads
4. What happened Night 1?
5. Conclusions

1. Webadict

#1851 - Webadict votes Magma without a reason.

#1863 - Webadict tells Toaster he doesn't believe this game would have two millers. He's laying suspicion on Toaster. He also agrees with my points on NJW (which were incorrect).

#1880 - Webadict confirms they voted Magma without giving a reason.

#1885 - Webadict changes their vote to myself right after Jack votes me. Writes off Jack as town. Decides to switch to me because Magma isn't posting and includes some minor reasons why they're voting this time. What I find important is the suddenness after Jack puts an arguably solid vote on me for voting NJW. It's wagon hop.

#1900 - Explains their vote on Magma now, it was simply "intuition" which is fine since it was basically RVS. Web's first vote on Magma is the most NAI.

#1910 - Web puts Toaster as their second highest town right under Jack. "No reason to claim Null Miller" and yet they voted NJW who had claimed miller. Why believe Toaster over NJW? They even admit themselves they read NJW's miller claim was super townie at the start of the game. He's contradicting himself to suspect NJW.

#1917 - Webadict goes into overdrive now. They switch back to Magma for their suspicious Fruit Vendor claim, which is fine since Magma really was lying. They then unvote again in a flurry of PPEs. Right after this Magma admits they were fakeclaiming and votes NJW for justifiable reasons.

#1923 - Webadict jumps on the NJW vote after Magma does and just says "fucking finally someone gets it". This is a pure wagon vote. I believe they did this to try to swing momentum off of Toaster since NJW's Toaster vote could have possibly swung that way instead, but Webadict also didn't want to vote NJW first so they did weird shit until someone - in this case Magma - voted NJW first. Then they pounced. Afterwards Jack and Jim joined in quick succession before Roden hammered.


2. Toaster

#1865 - Toaster banters with Webadict about being a "null miller". Throws a little shade towards Web as well. That's pretty much all I have for D1. With Toaster-Webadict.

Toaster wasn't able to post for D1 end, which is understandable I can't argue that I almost didn't get my own post out. In general they didn't post much on D1.

#1954 - Start of D2, Toaster puts out his end of D1 post he couldn't post with their D1 reads. Webadict is their only town read. They attack me and Max the most. It's this point where I post that I'm confident that mafia team is Toaster/Webadict. They also like Web, Jack, and Jim's votes on NJW the most even though I think they're the most bandwagon-y. Magma had the best vote on NJW there, but Magma gets rated as badly as my pseudo-vote.

From here Web and Toaster have been pushing for me and Max for D2.

Jumping ahead to new stuff...

#2012 - Toaster posts another readslist, this time with Webadict in the middle. This likely isn't in response to Jack voting Web since that had just happened. They also have actual town reads now with Jack, Roden, and Magma. I think this is Toaster overcompensating for the end of D1 reads. Maybe Web told him to drop him down after seeing how today has progressed.


3. NJW's readslist

#1887 - NJW's scumreads were Toaster, Webadict, and Roden. I think the Roden read was bad, but I think his points on Web and Toast are good.


4. What happened Night 1?

Here's my theory:

Toaster is some kind of Ascetic Roleblocker/Jail Keeper.
Web is possibly lying about being a motion detector.

Toaster roleblocks/jailkeeps Max.
Roden gets roleblocked by something Toaster has, like a strong passive.
Webadict either actually motion detected Jack or is lying and did something else in secret.


5. Conclusions

I have more reasons to suspect Webadict, although part of that is that Toaster hasn't been as active. However, Toaster is mechanically more suspicious. My brain follows my heart so I will be voting Webadict as he is more suspect and it's more likely Webadict is playing Toaster and not the other way around.


PPE:
@Jack:

@Toonyman: Are you SURE you don't want me to say what I got? It would help me figure out how to use it...

No. It's better this way.

[webadict]

Alternate Theory: Scum team is Webadict and Toaster, they tried to kill ME, they failed, and are now looking for the doctor.

PFP

I gave an item to Jack, please confirm but don't say what it is though.

I got 3 on Jack. I assume Jack actioned, so who's the last one?

You'll see Web "using his ability" after ToonyMan revealed giving me an item.
Also, Web "isn't sure" if my action counts.  So if 2 people claim to have actioned me, he can "clarify" my action actually didn't count.

The fact that you might be Town is a mystery that will never truly be solved, even after the game.

I'm pretty sure I claimed Yesterday while doped up or something, but I could be making that up. I'm pretty sure the base Motion Detector my role is based off of gets a ping on both the target and anyone that targets them, so... This is factually incorrect, and easily disproven with basic Googling skills. I'd like to think that I'd be better at lying than that, but I only have some sort of brain problem, so I guess that's not out of the question.

Anyway, I've already taken a bunch of tranqs like 30 minutes ago, so I'm fucking outta here, lmao, it's so fucking obvious that it's ToonyMan and Maximum Spin, I swear to fucking god, I have to carry the Town every fucking game

[EuchreJack]

Motion Detector

Sometimes a Motion Detector checks only for actions performed by their target, or only for actions performed on their target.

[EuchreJack]

Actually, I think Webadict & Roden makes a better scum team than Webadict & Toaster. 
Web always picks one town player to defend regardless of the evidence, which could be Toaster.

Toaster's irrational push of Jim as mafia is the sort of mistake typically a Town player would make. 
Mafia knows that is a losing battle, and generally prefer softer targets.

@Toaster: Do you see any connections between Web & Roden?

[EuchreJack]

Reminder: I possess the following info that I am not sharing.
1) The item that Toonyman gave to me.  For which I am now Town Reading Him.
2) The role claim of Max.  For which I am now Town Reading Him.

[Roden]

@Roden: Can you please explain the Toony/McMiner situation? And, do you think that Toaster's play has been scummy disregarding his role claim?

So, back in Totem Mafia, McMiner tried to claim that his role let him send someone a message and optionally kill them. He claimed to target Toony, who said he never got a message, but also didn't question the suggestion that McMiner had maybe been Roleblocked and just accepted it. Their interactions and the weird role claim were initially seen as too scummy to actually be scummy, but it turned out both of them were the mafia. Short answer is probably just Occam's Razor.

I don't think Toaster's play has been particularly scummy, and in fact the more I read his posts the more I feel myself being convinced that I possibly really was Roleblocked. My problem with that though is that the suspect pool is tiny and doesn't make sense. I'm also just not sure why anyone would try to fuck with my Inspect anyway. I'm already Unreliable as it is, and even if I wasn't Toaster supposedly would come up Null anyway, so what's the point? Why block me over someone like Toony or Jack, who have objectively stronger abilities?

[Roden]

Actually, I think Webadict & Roden makes a better scum team than Webadict & Toaster. 
Web always picks one town player to defend regardless of the evidence, which could be Toaster.

Toaster's irrational push of Jim as mafia is the sort of mistake typically a Town player would make. 
Mafia knows that is a losing battle, and generally prefer softer targets.

@Toaster: Do you see any connections between Web & Roden?

Do you honestly think it's in my scum range to fake a claim as specific as the one I've made?

I don't really see how I could have connections with Web this game. I've actually been cautious around him if anything, I'm suspicious of him but don't want to scum read him off of a pre-flip associative with Toaster. As it is right now, I don't have any reason to think he's lying about anything.

[Maximum Spin]

Or I, knowing something I haven't yet disclosed (but I'm about to), wanted to hit Max for maximum pressure to see how he reacted.

This was unwise. I don't believe in "pressure". I would have reacted exactly the same to your action if you hadn't voted, simply on the understanding that you had roleblocked me and were using that to implicate me as the killer.

@Max: If you forget about the Toaster thing for a minute, who are your top scum reads? Who would you have voted yesterday, had you been around? Why did you think that NJW was obvtown?

You and webadict; maybe Jim for lack of presence. I believe I did, in fact, vote yesterday, so you know who I would have voted yesterday - I'd tell you my second pick but I think that might give away information I have been asked to reserve. I can't really answer the third question very well, though... he just smelled like the color of town NJW, if that makes sense. I'm a very abstract thinker by nature; I'd have to go back over his posts to get back the specifics, and I don't really want to do that right now.

Anyway, I've already taken a bunch of tranqs like 30 minutes ago, so I'm fucking outta here, lmao, it's so fucking obvious that it's ToonyMan and Maximum Spin, I swear to fucking god, I have to carry the Town every fucking game

People remember when you say shit like this, you know. On the off-chance that you're actually town it just makes you look reeeeeeeally dumb.

I honestly town-read Roden. Obviously it's a possibility, but it's not the biggest possibility for me.
I'm completely down with lynching webadict, even though I don't really buy the "duped town Toaster" theory, since he's very obviously the best alternative vote. Like I just said, he's either scum or acting dumb enough that he might as well be. To be clear, I'm not blaming him for suspecting me, which is fair enough in principle; I'm blaming him for thinking it's "so fucking obvious" that he has to "carry the Town" when I know he is in fact wrong.

(One last thing though:

Do you honestly think it's in my scum range to fake a claim as specific as the one I've made?

Anything can be in your scum range if you want it to be. You were last scum with me, and I distinctly remember discussing, with you, fake-claiming at least two extremely specific things. )