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[FallacyofUrist]

Also, Lenglon is acting kind of aggro.. Could be a town demeanor... but I feel like it's way too early to be acting this aggressive. On a D1 one, there is nothing to really go off of.

Eh. Aggression and pursuit are nearly always better for the town than the mafia. Those methods generate more activity and more data to analyze. Even on day one.

[Lenglon]

Is that not an answer? I suspect Fal some from the way he jumped in between me and shakerag, but I'm not certain enough to put doublevotes on him.

This is an answer, to my eyes your earlier response was not, but now that I've seen this one I do see how you did say the same thing in the earlier one, thank you for clarifying.

[Maximum Spin]

Though obviously he should have explained why first off and his reaction to being asked to explain why is strange.

I did explain why, to Knightwing. I was more than happy to explain why. I was hoping to explain why! (Okay, I probably should've just explained why without needing to be asked, but, like I said at the time, I posted like that to gauge how people engaged with it.) My reaction was to being told, as a thought-free flat assertion, it was a scumtell by someone whom I thought would have understood my point.
Buuuuut...

I know that I said that he's acting his usual self but it does seem a bit stronger than usual by my money.

... yeah. I do feel like I was really irritable this morning. I more or less understand why (external reasons probably not relevant to explain). I don't normally let things bleed out like that, but this was definitely bothering me more than it should've been. It's honestly annoying to me because I've been accused of overreacting as mafia before, so I feel like that's just going to feed people's assumptions, but it honestly really was just an unrelated bad mood... well, anyway.

Fallacy, how have I not been engaged? I've been talking to people in this thread almost all the free time I have. I'm genuinely curious what specific things you think I'm not doing that I "would do as town". I know Lenglon thinks I should be asking people questions, but you know that's never my style. I prefer to sit and chat casually while looking to see whether anyone pegs my intuition, which is exactly what I've been doing.

If you are town? Tell me who's scum. Top three picks, actually. You can include me if you want, just have decent reasons for it.

This question both A) stresses me out and B) separately makes me doubt you. I think you know very well that I hate being asked this, especially on d1. I don't trust you asking it. It's d1, I'm not good at d1, I'm never sure who to suspect until I see at least one flip or some kind of night result (and that wouldn't be much in this probably power-heavy setup anyway).
I'm having this increasing nasty suspicion that this entire fight with Lenglon has been me tunnelling on someone for jumping to conclusions that I in turn assume to be in bad faith, just like you should remember happening in your MVMarathon when I managed to do it twice in one game, first on whoever roleblocked me (sorry I don't remember the name) and then again on Roden. But I still FEEL SUSPICIOUS ABOUT him. It doesn't just go away just because I start to think I might be in a blind alley. So... look, let me sort of half-answer your question, excluding Lenglon, and just tell you how I feel about the people.

NJW2000 and Lidku have not posted much. I think NJW has only posted once, and it feels like Lidku has done barely more than that. I don't trust this. Honestly, if I had to pick one OTP Scumteam out of everyone, I might say it's just the two of them riding it out and hoping to casually get me lynched in the shitfight.
You, Fallacy, give me a bad vibe. On the other hand, you're a weirdo. Maybe it's just that.
Shakerag is really null. I guess he seems to be behaving constructively? Like, if I were to give him the Knightwing Metric, I guess I'd say town, but he isn't Knightwing. The Knightwing Metric doesn't work on non-Knightwings, I saw that last time.
Speaking of which, Knightwing64 is town. TricMagic is... probably town. He looks like he's making weird decisions for vaguely scummy reasons, which is normal for town Tric. I don't think he's at the point of faking that successfully yet, but I don't know for sure. And finally, so far I think Egan_BW is town.

...
I guess I should unvote.
NJW2000 and Lidku, what're you two up to?
Oh, Lidku just showed up, while I was writing, huh. Moving my vote to NJW2000 then. He still needs to DO MORE, though.

[Lenglon]

But I still FEEL SUSPICIOUS ABOUT him.

((Her, by the way.))

[Lidku]

NJW2000 and Lidku have not posted much. I think NJW has only posted once, and it feels like Lidku has done barely more than that. I don't trust this. Honestly, if I had to pick one OTP Scumteam out of everyone, I might say it's just the two of them riding it out and hoping to casually get me lynched in the shitfight.

I guess I should unvote.
NJW2000 and Lidku, what're you two up to?

Oh, Lidku just showed up, while I was writing, huh. Moving my vote to NJW2000 then. He still needs to DO MORE, though.

Apologies for the inactivity, but I DID preface earlier that I was at the mall doing IRL matters.

This is my second BYOR game and I think I just usually like to be passive in general on D1, then try to actively solve on D2 (like I did before). There is just never enough to go on in a D1 to make any substantive determination on who is Mafia, in general. The D1 vote, if it occurs, most likely just kills a town; then after that, the Mafia will be able to get another kill on N1.

[Egan_BW]

Egan: do you have any way we can confirm you as doing something other than mafiakilling and being mafia and stuff?
Don't necessarily say what it is, withholding information about your power is a good idea D1. A yes/no/maybe answer might be enough.

It's a BYOR, I don't hold any answers if there's an inspection power which ignores autos which would spoof them or something. But my auto lies to inspects, survey, and tracks. If you have something which isn't those and indicates alignment, it'd work. If both me and the killer get surveyed, we'd both show up as having used mafiakill which shouldn't be possible, so you'd know there's some kind of unreliable inspection going on.

And I still flip as town. Not an ideal solution, but it would work.

Best solution is always to just figure it out from how I'm acting, of course.

[Mamobo]

Vote Count
------------------------
Maximum Spin - 3 - NJW2000*, Lenglon*, TricMagic*,
Egan_BW - 1 - Shakerag*,
NJW2000 - 1 - Maximum Spin*,
FallacyofUrist - 0 -
Knightwing64 - 0 -
Lenglon - 0 -
Lidku - 0 -
Shakerag - 0 -
TricMagic - 0 -
No One - 0 -

Not Voting - 4 - Egan_BW*, FallacyofUrist*, Knightwing64, Lidku,

5 to Hammer. Day ends on July 13, 2022 at 20:00 CDT (~49 hours remaining).

[FallacyofUrist]

This is my second BYOR game and I think I just usually like to be passive in general on D1, then try to actively solve on D2 (like I did before). There is just never enough to go on in a D1 to make any substantive determination on who is Mafia, in general. The D1 vote, if it occurs, most likely just kills a town; then after that, the Mafia will be able to get another kill on N1.

There's a good argument to be made for the existence of a kill-less Night 0 phase, just for this reason. That didn't happen this game, though, so we're left with a purely behavior-based start.

It's a BYOR, I don't hold any answers if there's an inspection power which ignores autos which would spoof them or something. But my auto lies to inspects, survey, and tracks. If you have something which isn't those and indicates alignment, it'd work. If both me and the killer get surveyed, we'd both show up as having used mafiakill which shouldn't be possible, so you'd know there's some kind of unreliable inspection going on.

And I still flip as town. Not an ideal solution, but it would work.

Best solution is always to just figure it out from how I'm acting, of course.

All my actions show up as mafiakill actions, because BYOR. Bolded so nobody misses it.

Now with that aside.

To everyone that isn't Egan. Do you think Egan and I are the scumteam?

I know I'm not scum. So far I'm reading Egan as 70% town. Their reasoning for voting and unvoting me feels... unjustified? Without foundation. But that's about it, and they've been acting a bit gutsy, coming out like this, so combined with my own role info, I'm inclined to believe they're not lying, at least giving them the benefit of the doubt.

[1] Fallacy, how have I not been engaged? I've been talking to people in this thread almost all the free time I have. I'm genuinely curious what specific things you think I'm not doing that I "would do as town". I know Lenglon thinks I should be asking people questions, but you know that's never my style. I prefer to sit and chat casually while looking to see whether anyone pegs my intuition, which is exactly what I've been doing.

If you are town? Tell me who's scum. Top three picks, actually. You can include me if you want, just have decent reasons for it.

[2] This question both A) stresses me out and B) separately makes me doubt you. I think you know very well that I hate being asked this, especially on d1. I don't trust you asking it. It's d1, I'm not good at d1, I'm never sure who to suspect until I see at least one flip or some kind of night result (and that wouldn't be much in this probably power-heavy setup anyway).
[3] I'm having this increasing nasty suspicion that this entire fight with Lenglon has been me tunnelling on someone for jumping to conclusions that I in turn assume to be in bad faith, just like you should remember happening in your MVMarathon when I managed to do it twice in one game, first on whoever roleblocked me (sorry I don't remember the name) and then again on Roden. But I still FEEL SUSPICIOUS ABOUT him. It doesn't just go away just because I start to think I might be in a blind alley. So... look, let me sort of half-answer your question, excluding Lenglon, and just tell you how I feel about the people.

[4]
NJW2000 and Lidku have not posted much. I think NJW has only posted once, and it feels like Lidku has done barely more than that. I don't trust this. Honestly, if I had to pick one OTP Scumteam out of everyone, I might say it's just the two of them riding it out and hoping to casually get me lynched in the shitfight.
You, Fallacy, give me a bad vibe. On the other hand, you're a weirdo. Maybe it's just that.
Shakerag is really null. I guess he seems to be behaving constructively? Like, if I were to give him the Knightwing Metric, I guess I'd say town, but he isn't Knightwing. The Knightwing Metric doesn't work on non-Knightwings, I saw that last time.
Speaking of which, Knightwing64 is town. TricMagic is... probably town. He looks like he's making weird decisions for vaguely scummy reasons, which is normal for town Tric. I don't think he's at the point of faking that successfully yet, but I don't know for sure. And finally, so far I think Egan_BW is town.

[1] I'm not going to say that questions are required for engagement. But if you're not asking questions, you had better have a pretty good substitute, instead of looking like a member of the peanut gallery. I think a townier version of you would... continued in [3, 4].

[2] I would ask this question to anyone I found suspicious on any day, though I'd get more specific on later days. It's good for days one through three, if you ask me. Though if you asked the question to me, I think I'd flounder for a bit before coming up with a good answer. It's hard for me to pay attention to everyone at once. Right now I have the most attention paid to you, Lenglon, and Egan, with a little Shakerag on the side. Everyone else is under the radar for me, unfortunately.

... though maybe that's just because you, Lenglon, Egan, and Rag are the most active aside from me.

[3] See, this sort of content is what I'd consider more active engagement. Even if you're not asking questions, it helps position you relative to the rest of the players, and establishes your views in a more concrete fashion. Making comparisons using available information. It seems like you're more really a part of the game. If you want to not ask questions, I can accept that, but you need more content like this to help make up the gap. IF you are town, then that's honest feedback to you.

[4] Reads lists are similarly useful. Though I'm not sure how useful 'bad vibe' is. I can also accept gut feelings as data, so long as they're backed up with other connections. What makes me seem scummy?

... you may have already pointed out something that backs this up, and I apologize if I missed that. From the rhetorician side of things, though, a quote of your earlier statements can be a good tool if you're building on it, not just reiterating on it.

[Egan_BW]

All my actions show up as mafiakill actions, because BYOR.

I've made a wonderful decision.

[NJW2000]

Yeah, I haven’t posted much, but there’s over two days left. I had a busy day.

Important question for fou FIRST then Egan: do your actions inspect as TARGETING the nightkill? Say I die but you target max, who do you show up as targeting?

[FallacyofUrist]

For me? My action would show up as targeting Max in that scenario, assuming I wasn't redirected or some other shenaniganery.

My actions show up as mafiakill actions, but their apparent targeting is not modified from what it actually is.

[Lenglon]

To everyone that isn't Egan. Do you think Egan and I are the scumteam?

I am not interested in speculating about the scumteam as a group, and performing relational analysis, on day 1.

Individually you are each more townie than the players that have not posted enough content to form a read off of (Tric, Knightwing, NJW).

[Lidku]

To everyone that isn't Egan. Do you think Egan and I are the scumteam?

I am not interested in speculating about the scumteam as a group, and performing relational analysis, on day 1.

Individually you are each more townie than the players that have not posted enough content to form a read off of (Tric, Knightwing, NJW).

NJW has posted recently. That just really leaves Tric and Knightwing.. but I personally think inactivity is a somewhat weak modem to go off of... They could be doing IRL things. Usually I believe it's more likely that the Mafia is always active in a thread, as a means to deflect suspicion that they COULD be Mafia.. An inverse of what you've posted.

[Shakerag]

To everyone that isn't Egan. Do you think Egan and I are the scumteam?

Scumteam predictions on D1 are fucking stupid.  Having said that, they could be useful on later days.  To specifically answer your question I do not know. 

I'll be ready to really start drunk shitposting in an hour or so.

[Maximum Spin]

[3] See, this sort of content is what I'd consider more active engagement. Even if you're not asking questions, it helps position you relative to the rest of the players, and establishes your views in a more concrete fashion. Making comparisons using available information. It seems like you're more really a part of the game. If you want to not ask questions, I can accept that, but you need more content like this to help make up the gap. IF you are town, then that's honest feedback to you.

[4] Reads lists are similarly useful.

That's fair. I've said before I don't like giving reads on d1 because I don't like giving people I suspect a heads-up before they have a chance to do things to make me suspect them more, but I've been trying to get over that these last few games. I'm also realizing that the only people in this game with whom I've been playing much lately (not counting webadict who sadly cannot vouch for me) are Knightwing and TricMagic, so I can't rely on the "just like in that other game" shorthand that I... have a strong tendency to rely on and expect people to understand where I'm coming from. So that's a challenge.

Actually, funnily enough, I thought EuchreJack was in this one too, when you did. Totally missed that he got switched out.

Though I'm not sure how useful 'bad vibe' is. I can also accept gut feelings as data, so long as they're backed up with other connections. What makes me seem scummy?

... you may have already pointed out something that backs this up, and I apologize if I missed that. From the rhetorician side of things, though, a quote of your earlier statements can be a good tool if you're building on it, not just reiterating on it.

Well, concretely, what I can think of right now are the two things I mentioned: Interjecting yourself into the Shakerag/Egan fight, and putting me on the spot with a "PROVE YOU'RE TOWN, GIVE YOUR TOP THREE READS" that you even now admit you'd struggle with at the same time. But I guess you probably didn't mean it to be as confrontationally "answer me these questions three" as I interpreted it, based on what you've said here. I read it as more of a challenge than you seem to have meant it.

But at the same time... I am a really, really, really intuitionistic player and sometimes I don't have more than gut feelings and maybe a couple vague things to point to. I'm sorry, but you do have to accept that. All I can plead is that it seems to work okay, at least as well as everyone else does. This is honestly why I do let d1 slip by: it's definitely not my time to shine, and I kind of just expect/hope that people will give me enough credit to get through it so I can sit down and try actually finding scum d2 and on.