*sits at a computer to type out a post, the first time this has been done in frickin' years*
Okay, I was going to read through things and kinda respond to things as I went along but the whole Tric/Fou/Jim/Max thing really bothers me and there are a lot of big posts I need to trim to make it easier to parse...
So here goes.
ToasterHector:
Why you answerin’ questions for other people eh? Totes scum. /s
I should be voting so I guess I’ll back up my stuff on NQT.
*10 hours later*
notquitethere
How serious is this vote?
Not very, but I'm sure that's why you asked. I had kinda checked out of the game at that point, but a weak vote is infinitely more useful than not voting at all. I basically voted NQT there to let folks know where my suspicions lay, and wasn't really expecting much from NQT because he's not silly enough to slip as scum on D1.
Responding to you because it's a little relevant to Jim's portion later; context brah.
MaxSpinThis is one of the first bits that raised my suspicions.
hector is similar, but I can reify it a little more because I was scum with hector not too long ago (Proc Gen... I want to say 4?), and he reminds me of his play then, in that he seems to be "managing town", so to speak. You know, trying to rhetorically cut off certain things and promote others, not too different from what I accused Fallacy of doing. In that game, we... this may not be the best thing to bring up at this immediate point in time... we goaded Fallacy into acting shady to set him up for the d1 lynch, and made NJW2000 the fall guy. This kind of managing is a strong suit of hector's, I think.
I will quite willingly walk into whatever you're setting for me here because I'm just that kind of person:
You bring up me doing this but don't provide examples of
how I'm managing town, nor to what end I'm managing town toward.
I am within the scumpicks of you, Jim, Toony, NQT, FoU, EJ, probably Toaster. Basically all the people that matter and could actually build a case on me if they wanted. If I'm "managing the town" as you say, I am doing a
spectacularly poor job of it.
Further, the... oddly cautious way of approaching it, relating to someone else's question rather than directed at me, reminds me an awful lot of FoU's D1 play in the Supernatural game we played recently, in which his D1 play relating to me was basically "hector is scawy" and he was scum.
You can argue that the main strategy for scum is not necessarily to be viewed as the most townie, but just now be viewed as the most scummy, but dude it's D1, once the other scumpicks are out of the way, I'm on the chopping block.
JimThis was another thing raising my hackles.
notquitethere
Mmmmmm, I don't feel this. I'll stack it on top of all my other misgivings about you.
I should, but I won't, check what your case on notquitethere is and see if I feel there's merit to it.
You know one thing that really ticks me off about mafia games? Having to read through Tric's posts, don't make me do it, guy.
Another thing that bothers me though, is disingeuousnessnessness.
You've trimmed out context for that vote, and also ignored the post I made nearby that one (this quoted post is #347, the one I refer to is #342) in which I laid out some questions for NQT to answer, one of which was less than serious, and should thus alert people to how serious the vote was.
That post was also 10 posts after post #332, in which I said I was not feeling up to playing mafia for the day for myriad reasons, or am I also allowed to get all hot and bothered the next time you say you'd prefer to play Noita than mafia?
I think the only points of reference for TricMagic's non town game are Fallacy's BYOR whatever where he was a dragon (deez nutz), the one cult game I ran where he was the cult leader, and then notquitethere's Revolutions game. If he's been scum in other games I don't recall them.
Fallacy's BYOR is a wash since he was a third party SK and did literally nothing SK-like. In the cult game I think I recall him blending into the background and from what I remember of Revolutions TricMagic dialed down the boisterousness, exuberance, personality, etc., a lot for that game.
This game's TricMagic does not match Revolutions or the cult game I ran, but it does match literally every game TricMagic is town in and when he was a dragon or otherwise not on a team, which is what people have been saying.
I stopped closely reading midway through FallacyofUrist's and TricMagic's argument and I maintain I missed nothing of substance.
Anyways, let's lynch FallacyofUrist. I think I have honestly seen this pattern of doubling down on a bad argument in a past game where he was scum.
These two also bother me. I have significant issue with meta arguments being used to clear/indict someone in a game to the extent you are using them and that's all your read on Tric and FoU is.
You've pointed out two games in which Tric was not town and said you don't think Tric's play in this game is similar. In order to counter those arguments, people then have to read
those games, not this one we're actually playing, and even if they do that your response could reasonably be "that's just, like, uh, your opinion man".
Tric's alignment in those games have zero bearing on his alignment in this one, so there's zero point to bringing this up.
Further, a major problem with meta reads is that given a sufficintly long enough career on a forum, as FoU has here, you can find
anything from any other game to back up your "read" on any alignment.
I've seen FoU double down on shitty arguments as third-party (MafiaKart, the game he outed himself as benign TP in his first post and said (DESPITE STRONG MISGIVINGS ON MY PART) that he would only sell his actions to town, when he then proceeded to sell his actions to the mafia team and SK) and I'm pretty damn sure I've seen it as town too.
FoU is a tenacious MF'er, once he has an idea in his head and thinks it's right, there is basically nothing that will change his mind, particularly when he is unsure of the motives behind people trying to change it. It's NAI.
This leads me very happily into this bullshit:
Anyways, let's lynch FallacyofUrist. I think I have honestly seen this pattern of doubling down on a bad argument in a past game where he was scum.
I think the game I'm being reminded of is Paranormal 27. I feel like there are a lot of similarities between that game and this game for how FallacyofUrist is playing.
Okay Jim is the hivemind leader and he converted Max, the psychic warden. Got it.
Wait, fuck, that actually makes sense.
Jim as Hivemind, uses the tech slot to get a Permanent Holoform Modulator. Uses that to show himself like a Kook would.
Converts Max, the psychic warden.
Gets Max's results, and uses the fact that I was roleblocked to fakeclaim a Snooper Bot.
Well, fuck.
I think scum FoU has a bad habit of doubling down on obviously stupid arguments.
Yes, but unrelated to his alignment.
However, this quote, much like when you trimmed away everything else in the post about my vote further up, is very devoid of context. That's the problem of quoting from games that other people played in,
they might remember what was going on in them 
It's D2, Vector has been outed as having attempted to kill ToonyMan by Tric's Loud Bodyguard or whatever the role is called (he died in place of the target but tells the target who the killer was) and the three suspects remaining for scum in that game were me, NQT, and FoU. The latter two were scum.
The game was basically mechanically solved at that point, and FoU knew it, so really his only option was to try to throw shade on the two power roles he knew about that could mess his team up: the tracker/watcher, which was you, and the Psychic Warden (a blocker) that he thought was Max. The fact he didn't give up and actually tried something, however insane, was commendable. D1 lasted until page 31, that quote is from page 33, and the game was over two day phases and two night phases later basically by page 40.
An even worse point for you in that game was scum!FoU's D1 play, which was the polar opposite of what he's doing now, in that he basically did nothing except passive-aggressively throw shade my way until I got upset about it and spent the remainder of the day failing to convince the rest of the town I was right, and being scumspected as a consequence.
My horribly belaboured point is that of
all the examples available on the forum, you chose one in which FoU basically had no choice but to make insane arguments, and one in which his D1 play shares absolutely nothing in common with his D1 play in this game.
Do I have to hammer home how ridiculous this is?
Max/Jim Again I'm leading into the next bit, Max's utterly ridiculous comment:
Anyways, let's lynch FallacyofUrist. I think I have honestly seen this pattern of doubling down on a bad argument in a past game where he was scum.
I believe you absolutely have, because I know I have.
Oh, I see you got an example, too. That was a great one.
You were in the game and know the context, wtf is this bullshit!?I don't know if you and Jim are scum, but I'm pretty convinced that at least one of you is, I just don't know if it's the blatantly disingenuous one or the blatantly buddying one.
Maybe someone else should decide, seeing as I was hoping he'd do something in the time I was gone but was disappointed.
EJEuchreJack:
Toony: I was voting on my own to see how others responded, including voting Toaster as you & Jim seemed to suspect him. But you seem to have been doing well, and I love TMNT, so I guess I can sheep you for a bit.
"I was voting on my own by copying what you did"
At what point of the game are you going to stop sheeping? I don't mean pretending to not sheep; I mean actually stop.
Day 2, ideally.
Otherwise Tric is gonna have to roll out the "Jack is a Sheep" meme again.
How's about ideally now? You think I'm scum but you're not voting for me, and I at least asked you to find someone else for me to vote at some point though I can't be bothered to look.
So how's about this: you got any thoughts on this Max/Jim connection? How's about the Tric/FoU thing?
I should type these out more often that was fun and easy and really convenient why do I keep playing this on just my phone?
Oh, I should also say that I also don't particularly like FoU's tunnel on Tric, but it's at least generating some content from others, and it's sufficiently different from his D1 play as scum in Meph's Supernatural that I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for the time being.
*makes to leave, turns around at the last moment*
Just one more thing!
Jim...
Jim: Do you mind presenting your full case for us? this is all I can find:
. . .
And then your most recent two posts.
The problem I have here is that your entire basis is that "FoU's argument is bad". You don't include what the actual problem with the argument IS.
Please, take the extra steps to build a foundation for your house. What is the core, base, central, problem with FoU's case that makes FoU scum for having it? Stop skipping this step please.
FoU is scum because he thinks TricMagic is scum which is completely incompatible with my meta read on TricMagic. Moreover, if FallacyofUrist were genuinely town, I think he should have the same read about TricMagic that I do given that I think he's a capable enough player for it and he's played with TricMagic enough to recognize it.
There are also aspects of his scum play that I recognize, but these showed up after my initial vote on him. I elaborated a bit in my previous post.
I don't think I've been mysterious about my reasons why so I'm confused why there's a gap for you. I wasted too much time answering this befuddling question.
Asking people about, or clarification of, the reasons they're voting is... kinda basic in the game of mafia. If you think it's a waste of time we can get rid of you early so you can play Noita if you like?
There's a ridiculous number of people who are getting away with not doing anything right now, and being new is no excuse.
I'll post this just now, I think there was something else I wanted to say but being able to type this all out probably makes the wall a bit too big :|
Author
Topic: BYOR 16: Game Over. Mafia 2 Wins. (Read 50490 times)