I wanted to respond to this before but I was needed elsewhere, and now everyone is sleeping.
MaxYou were in the game and know the context, wtf is this bullshit!?
Not only that, but I'd just reread it only a day or two before. I just don't see your point.
"Fallacy did X in Y context, so he wouldn't do it in Z context!"?
I also remember Fallacy acting in a way like this as scum with me in Kill Webadict Now. I see similarities to his play in Bring Three just a moment ago, too. Yes, he always has some kind of a reason, the point isn't the reason, the point is this is his standard toolbox.
It’s more “FoU did X in A,B, and C context so drawing conclusions from it is fallacious.”
FoU sometimes goes with the flow, sometimes goes off and does his own thing, sometimes the latter is a little bit bananas.
Point is he was scum in the game Jim quoted, and I think that quote was not a particularly great example of FoU doing mad things as scum because that was the only thing he could do on the face of his team having basically lost at that point, as well as FoU acting very subdued and trying to blend in on D1 of that game by not really doing much of anything beyond dropping read lists, which is a significant departure from what’s happening in this game.
As to your complaint about my complaint about you, part of your argument is reasonable: that I didn't give examples of you managing town, but part is not: that I was somehow being "oddly cautious" by answering a question from somebody else. If I hadn't been asked I probably wouldn't have brought it up at all today, since my focus is on Fallacy, plus you were absent by your own admission so I'd have given you the benefit of the doubt for a while anyway. It's not oddly cautious to frame it as an answer to a question when somebody else asked me the question entirely outside my own control. Unless you think I coordinated with Toaster to open the opportunity to shade you? That's actually fair, but I probably wouldn't have bothered doing that as scum, I don't think.
Back to the reasonable part: Well, I can't really speak to what end you'd be managing town toward yet, because I don't know your plans. I can see the patterns but I don't know where they point yet. I didn't have a list of examples ready because, like I've said before, that's not really how my brain works, but I looked back over your posts and I think I see signs of it here, here, and here, just for a start, not to mention in the post I'm responding to now.
Still, man, like you said, it's d1, I don't have any super strong scumreads yet. If someone wasn't dead set on voting out one of my strongest townreads I don't really know what I'd be doing. I'm not trying to set you up, and don't read too much into it. I'm more suspicious of you because I know you're a strong player.
Alright I’ll accept the accusation of odd caution on your part was an inaccurate assessment on my part, you do tend to keep your cards close to your chest regardless and perhaps I was reading a bit too much into it after the conclusions I drew from… whatever is happening between you and Jim.
As for your examples there’s quite a range of things in there, and I’ll confess to thinking the third example in there would be what you brought up. PPE: I also was going to ask what “managing town” meant, but you answered that already and… I mean, that’s mafia in a nutshell isn’t it? You’re trying to get people to do what you want as town ‘cause you don’t know who to trust beyond yourself, and try to do it as scum ‘cause the best way to win is to co-opt their biggest weapon against you: the elimination.
I also don’t like this idea of people being more wary of me because I’m good at the game, but that’s just a personal gripe that I have to do a little bit extra work as a consequence and I’m lazy.
You and Lenglon and Fallacy have all been harping on about "context" and I really don't get it. I don't think it's disingenuous to quote something "out of context" when the context is easily available? None of the quotes that I've seen have struck me as particularly misrepresentative at all. It feels insincere to an extent, although I don't actually think all of you are scum, so at least some of you probably mean it. I think I just don't get it. I may be biased in that I think Tric and Jim are both extremely townie, I guess, but you knew that already.
I mean… ease of availability is subjective. Like I said above, I’m lazy, if folk can lay out their case with links and highlights so I have to put less effort into understanding it, cool beans. If I have to go to a post to understand context it’s not so cool beans. If I have to understand the context of a completely different game, that’s not happening.
Context is very important though. If we just immediately hammered someone on D1, there would be no context to analyze in relation to their flip on D2. If we let the game take a natural progression though we have a lot we can build on for D2, like voting patterns, how they interacted (or not) with other players, basic stuff like that.
So yeah, when Jim trims things down on a post I made, limiting easily available context, people could click the link to the post, but I personally wouldn’t. Not that egregious really, but when he uses a quote from a different game to justify his read on a player in this game, and that quote means something different within the context of that game, then yeah I feel that’s a lot more problematical, and a reason why I’m not liking Jim in this one.
On that same token, Jim has referred to a handful of games in which Tric was anti-town and how his behaviour in those relates to his behaviour in this game, and I think (without checking since I’m back on my phone) he didn’t link to those games, so people wanting to check the veracity of those claims would have to find those games, then read through those games. That means they’re not reading this one, which is obviously more important to solving this game. Similarly with his justifications about FoU, but he provided that one quote and possibly other links I’m not remembering.
With that I think I’ll call it a night. I should go to sleep but I’ll probably read Shigurui manga until very late and be tired and cranky for tomorrow.
Author
Topic: BYOR 16: Game Over. Mafia 2 Wins. (Read 50594 times)