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[Lenglon]

Canadian: That is exactly the kind of thing I was asking for, thank you.

What is your opinion of Sofanthiel?

[Maximum Spin]

Oh, to be clear, I'm abundantly fine with that happening later, closer to day end, I just wanted to establish that I definitely want to break Secretdorf's condition from earlier at some point. I don't feel the need to convince you to vote right this second if you don't want to.

[Imp]

Egan_BW

Didn't you see me slip that I have a scum role PM and waste town's time on meaningless frivolities?

No.  Perhaps it would help to quote where that may have happened?  Chances are it's an accusation.  They tend to fly in these Mafia games, towards most or all of us at various times.

Do remember that Tric was town but could intentionally create and induct people into an SK pseudo-faction. EJ's thing could be similar.

Absolutely.

And I remember your reaction to the roleflip.  You alone of all laughed:

Yes! Hahaha, yes!

Tric was SK anyways. Basically.

Me, I'm thinking of the TricMagic who, knowing themself town, and able to go SK, and able to kill nearly anyone, as far as that role looks like -

I also see that TricMagic could have carefully used those abilities to ensure they never went SK unless forced somehow against their will to do something not personally intended.

Best case scenario, if TricMagic charged towards Serial Killer, is Serial Killer by D4 for TricMagic.  But TricMagic had choices.  And was town.  Maybe TricMagic would have, intentionally or not, stayed town.  Powerful, dangerous to all town, but town.

And then, I remember too, TricMagic's challenge to me, and all, if you see a self-reveal, a problem, why not kill it.  I remember TricMagic's strong sacrifice, offering their own life to Jim Groovester to take.  Their moment of courage, their moment of regret.  Maybe TricMagic knew that they could not resist betraying town to go SK, given that choice.  And so they offered themself to town, 'kill me now, when it's still easy. I can't control myself'.

I wonder sometimes about my future dreams, if I live long enough, if I could dream a healing and a return of TricMagic, but I don't think I should try, I think I'll dream different markedly safer dreams and allow TricMagic peace from that moral quandary and that internal struggle.  I also don't exactly control my dreams and can't guarantee there won't be nightmares.  For sure I'm not purposefully risking dreaming up a cult.

Still - I wonder if EuchreJack has choices too, and ones they might still be ignorant of, and need to ask questions about if they haven't already.

I wonder if you have no choices, you who seemed to celebrate and laugh at the death of that choiced one, and if that's why you don't seem to understand some of the actions of those that may have choices.

Still, let's revisit that scumminess you seem to worry or believe you show.  Shall we discuss?

[Lenglon]

Imp: Egan is probably town because I've interacted a lot with Egan in various settings and Egan isn't acting like they're hiding anything. The scummyness Egan spoke of was not actually them being scummy, it was them being accused of being scummy. Please don't waste your time or theirs on this confusion, neither of you are communicating clearly.

Egan: It's too bad you aren't continuing your revival of Tower, you had gotten my attention.

[hector13]

Spoiler: spoiler for posts (click to show/hide)

BOOTING COGNITION SYSTEMS...
VISUAL INTERFACE INITIATION COMPLETE...
BEGINNING STANDARD OPERATION PROCEDURE...

sofanthiel: Which three players here do you know the most about and which three do you know the least about?

This is my first time playing with many of the participants currently present, so I know equally nothing about most of you.  If I had to pick those I possess any understanding of out of the few I'm acquainted with, it'd be The Canadian kitten, CrystalizedMire, and Elephant Parade.  I believe I have some kind of grasp of their habits and playstyles, though this is possibly due to them also being as new-ish as I am.  It's pretty tough to analyze the more experienced players, especially Maximum Spin.

sofanthiel: Who, besides yourself, do you hope survives until the end?

So far?  I'll say it's probably  Elephant Parade; however, because of a distinct lack of information on that front so early on, my only reason is that he's fun to play with.

Elephant Parade, Is your ability offensive or defensive?  Who do you plan to use it on?  Is my 2nd question even applicable to your secret power?

This is Esteemed sofanthiel’s first post, RP’s a bit, answers some RVS, asks some RVS, drops an RVS vote on Esteemed Maximum Spin with… no real impetus to get him to respond.

Esteemed sofanthiel’s second post clarifies further their position, among other things:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Hmm. Defensive first vote, rolefishing, and a computer.

Defensive?  How so?  Regarding rolefishing, is that necessarily a mafia thing to do?

Question to you, why vote Max when you're literally get nothing out of them day 1?

He's a dangerous player who's hard to read.  My vote was half-RVS and half-expression of my wariness.  Plus, a little pressure has never hurt anyone, haha.

@sofa:  Why do you not wish to determine my alignment?

I very much do!  I wish to determine everyone's alignments, but the feasibility of that is questionable.

Acknowledges they consider Esteemed Maximum Spin to be a good player, and the vote was for pressure despite not actually providing any pressure with a question or accusation.

His next two posts [1] [2] are to do with RTD, bit pointless.

I ask him about his vote, he responds:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

A bit-flip caused a thought to cross my mind as I spent the last 8 hours sitting motionless and processing all of the thus-far-available information.

Well, I'm not completely unkillable, but I'm not going to give away the situation in which I can be killed.

What if this is pure, concentrated bluffing?  An attempt to prevent us from lynching Spin by portraying it as a complete waste of our precious votes, perhaps?

I like the initiative in going after more experienced players, but do you have a question or something you could ask that might prompt a response? I'm pretty sure Esteemed Maximum Spin will ignore you otherwise.

I mean, he might (will probably) ignore you if you ask a question anyway but you at least have an excuse not to move your vote if he ignores you with a question than without.

That's the fun part!  As time begins inevitably running out, even the most mind-tampering-capable among the eighteen of us start getting desperate, and, just like in any good interrogation, asking questions becomes an optional formality.  In fact, Max might actually be more likely to speak if I don't make what I want to hear so obvious.

"The Law has little bite out here, little one."

I step forward, take a heroic pose, and say, "Then I have no choice but to take on the duty of enforcing it!"

Some paranoid throwing of shade  and some utter tosh about waiting until the end of the day for his first post RVS vote to actually get something useful - which I will readily accept I should have poked at more at the time, but got lost in my trying to catch up - and then saying that just… basically ignoring Esteemed Maximum Spin will be more useful than trying to engage with him?

Says he’s struggling with all the players here, which is fine. I find people saying that a little amusing since the number of players actually active and posting to keep track of isn’t that much more than a usual game, but I’m struggling with trying to figure out how to get the quiet ones involved too so *shrugs*

This brings us to today. Esteemed sofanthiel’s first post today is more of the same, votes Esteemed Maximum Spin again without anything else, though has put some effort into it since, while showing off their disengagement of the game by missing the posts in which Esteemed Lenglon and I provide some advice for Esteemed The Candian kitten to improve their hunting, before he expresses it further by woefully misunderstanding what Most Esteemed FallacyofUrist was saying about what the existence of a Pirate alignment would mean, despite it having been gone over by a few players before.

TL;DR I consider, based on your (disgusting! :p) policy of Lynch All Lurkers, Esteemed sofanthiel’s filler posts and apparent disengagement and misreading of what’s been happening have been more egregious than Esteemed The Canadian kitten’s almost complete absence until recently.

I haven’t really read anything since my last post.

[Lenglon]

Hector13: Thank you, that told me what I was interested in.

Secretdorf: I believe your vote is a bandwagon vote without any reasoning behind it, would you care to prove me wrong by sharing what your reasoning was?

[EuchreJack]

Fallacy offered to modkill me. I decided to Press Continue.

[Imp]

Imp: Egan is probably town because I've interacted a lot with Egan in various settings and Egan isn't acting like they're hiding anything. The scummyness Egan spoke of was not actually them being scummy, it was them being accused of being scummy. Please don't waste your time or theirs on this confusion, neither of you are communicating clearly.

Egan: It's too bad you aren't continuing your revival of Tower, you had gotten my attention.

Ahh.  My thoughts were that I could discuss what I see in whatever Egan_BW saw.

Maybe that could be useful, like my discussion of what I see of EuchreJack maybe is.

Better to get to useful stuff a faster, easier way, if possible, thanks for the guidance.

... EuchreJack.

So, among my various oddnesses, as of right now I can choose to help empower specific others, should I choose to, if and only if I am in a private chat with those specific others, and based on a few other things also not fully under my control.  I cannot promise 'the moon' or any other specific.  I can promise 'probably something, and once I know what it is, it probably is under my control'.

Being in this private chat doesn't actually make me clearly stronger.  I don't actually get a personal benefit from being in said chat except the ability to potentially help and/or empower others, based on other things that may regularly change.

I don't have to talk much in it, and I'd agree to follow requested post restrictions, like 'bare minimum words' or whatever if you and the rest chose.

But there's some cool mechanics involved, if that happens.  I also really like helping others, though I won't knowingly help anyone but town... or what I think is towards town ends.

So I offer this for your consideration, after getting enough info to think, 'okay, I'll reveal this too'.

And no, this is not related to my earlier question about if anyone has an item they wish they didn't have.  That's a totally different thing, to me at least.

Fallacy offered to modkill me. I decided to Press Continue.

Oh thank you.  This may make the game more fun for all.

[EuchreJack]

@TheCanadianKitten: Thanks, that was most helpful.

[EuchreJack]

... EuchreJack.

So, among my various oddnesses, as of right now I can choose to help empower specific others, should I choose to, if and only if I am in a private chat with those specific others, and based on a few other things also not fully under my control.  I cannot promise 'the moon' or any other specific.  I can promise 'probably something, and once I know what it is, it probably is under my control'.

Being in this private chat doesn't actually make me clearly stronger.  I don't actually get a personal benefit from being in said chat except the ability to potentially help and/or empower others, based on other things that may regularly change.

I don't have to talk much in it, and I'd agree to follow requested post restrictions, like 'bare minimum words' or whatever if you and the rest chose.

But there's some cool mechanics involved, if that happens.  I also really like helping others, though I won't knowingly help anyone but town... or what I think is towards town ends.

So I offer this for your consideration, after getting enough info to think, 'okay, I'll reveal this too'.

...Fine, you're in.

[Lenglon]

Crystalized: We haven't really had a chat so far, lets change that. Would you please tell me what you think of Hector13 and Sofanthiel?

[Imp]

...Fine, you're in.

Terrifying.  I hope I and town wincon thank you after this happens.

Remember too, I am probably a likely nightkill on purpose or accident from redirects and I may be a waste of a spot because I may not be there D2 to help in any way.

However, if I am alive D2 to help (and I will clarify, any help I can give is a day ability, at least at this time.  That can change, a lot can change with what exactly I can myself do or allow others to do), I like helping and am eager to move towards town wincons.

But please do consider that too, before you make your final selections.  I mean everything I say, but that includes that, umm, how not to quote this... oh, this rephrasing works.  "What motivates everyone to always go after Imp?"  I could well be an early death.

[EuchreJack]

Remember too, I am probably a likely nightkill on purpose or accident from redirects and I may be a waste of a spot because I may not be there D2 to help in any way.

Not a problem.

However, you can't join the chat if you get lynched Day 1.
And I have to submit the list by end of day 1.

So, your final initiation test is to prove you are town so you are unlikely to be lynched._{My survival is also a prerequisite.}

[Lenglon]

Jack: back here you called me to dangerous to risk recruiting, and said you were certain to attempt to recruit Max. I would still prefer for you to not recruit Max or Toony please, and still think it would be unwise for me to explain why I'm making this request. Do you still plan on recruiting Max?

"Also, um, I think dangerous is a compliment, probably... um..."
shuffles feet
"Thanks."

[hector13]

Esteemed sofanthiel

Role name doesn't count.  Inspect doesn't count.  Not to me, and shouldn't much to you.  Alignment pirate, that matters.

So Jack and Toony are pirates, yet they both claim to not belong to the pirate alignment, which is itself separate from pirate roles?  Sorry if this has already been chewed up earlier, as I only recently became invested in the situation after Jack directed my attention to Fallay's clarification, which outright stated that pirates are scum.

It stated if Pirates exist as an alignment, they can only be scum. That’s not the same thing as confirming there are Pirates.


Esteemed Imp

Every existing scum team was informed that Pirates are Red, in a way that makes it obvious that Pirates and Mafia are equivalent.

If EuchreJack is honest about having access to that chat, then if it was a scum chat it would have the info about my ability in it.  Which would inform about Pirates and Mafia being a lot alike, even if the thing is handled in some 'there are no colors here' fashion.  It also removes all doubt.  Pirate is an alignment.  And a color red, but if you can't see the color, you see the word alignment.  I believe based on what I see and have been told, there is zero chance of confusion, period.  If EuchreJack can see that chat, and my ability is in there, EuchreJack could not have been confused about what Pirate means, even if he didn't think to ask.  It would have made him hesitate, I feel sure, to openly ask who wants to be a pirate.

If this is the case, why are you not bothered about Esteemed ToonyMan and Esteemed Egan_BW also claiming a red Pirate in their PM?


Esteemed The Canadian kitten

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Following Lenglon's advice, I decided to do case/theory on Elephant parade

EP asks a lot of questions, trying to figure out the purpose and effects of Jack's piratization ability. They mainly focus on first Jack for pressure and to gain more information on Jack's ability. They initially offer themself as a test subject before backing out due to uninterest and seeing that it benefits town more if they were not chosen. EP also has an auto ability that would interfere with inspects it seems. As they asked for Web's super inspect and decided against it. The auto likely is able to affect the visiting player or their actions. Maybe a self defense auto? That kills players if they visit or automatically fail the visiting player action?

EP also focues on Imp for rambling and being nonsensical in their analysis (or overanalysis) and thinks that Imp is likely scum, using their long walls of text to disguise as a town player doing analysis, and would also rather lynch someone who they think is likely scum than a lurker.

Also EP considered voting Egan purely for the lack of engagement of the actual mafia game.

I find EP to be likely to be town, for they scumhunt on Imp and Jack, asks questions to clarify Jack's and Web's abilities and limitations. They prefer to go for a lynch on a player rather than a policy lynch, but understands the reasoning of the policy lynch and have no reason to argue against it.

Hopefully this is of semi reasonable use. But likely not.



Also I realized that I never answered EP's question so

The Canadian kitten: Out of everyone you've played with before, who do you consider the most threatening player?

I actually consider you the most threatening player your cases were solid and able to convince other people of it.

Cool beans, you found someone you think is town, which can be as useful as finding someone you think is scum.

Can you do it with another player, possibly finding someone you think is scummy and trying to find evidence of why to convince us to agree?


Esteemed Maximum Spin

Oh, to be clear, I'm abundantly fine with that happening later, closer to day end, I just wanted to establish that I definitely want to break Secretdorf's condition from earlier at some point. I don't feel the need to convince you to vote right this second if you don't want to.

What was Esteemed Secretdorf’s condition that you want to break?


Esteemed Lenglon

Hector13: Thank you, that told me what I was interested in.

NP